jagsy

Anyone have one that they want to sell or have decided to go back to stock? I know ASP sells for $650. I am wanting to do this very soon.

electromethod

Best bet is to check out the classified section here @ mbworld. I think in the past 3 months there have been 2 up for sale that i can remember.... try shooting those people a PM and finding out if it's still available.

btw......What part of FL are you located?

Buellwinkle

I thought ASP charges $350 + $300 core charge. Just return the old pulley (hopefully you didn't damage it on the way out) and get the core charge back. Any questions call them up and ask for Lee, tell him Buellwinkle sent ya.

jagsy

Thanks fellas. I live in Jacksonville Florida. I will try classified and ASP with core charges. My care is very nice, car only has 20k miles on it

KIRA

lol i want ASP pulley too... i heard bull or E?? said they it speed up your car 0-60 1 second less

anyway, i thinking if SonicMS has it??

SeaCoupe

I don't know if you are referring to me on this. I can't tell you the time you will cut, but I can say 1 second sounds reasonable.

The car is a whole different beast. Somewhere on here is my post after I put my pulley on. About Feb. 05. It expresses my happiness.

E

spyderpig

Oh! I want one too!
but i don't want to do it myself... and the funny part is the autoshops around here keep telling me "we don't work on mercedes because there are too many sensors"
I guess they never looked inside a benz before and never will...

KIRA

lol i was referring you... but now i look at you, you got kleenman pulley

SeaCoupe

I think I read that the Kleeman single unit alloy had the highest amount of boost.

But then, I have other mods on my car too.

E

jagsy

crap. now I want kleeman, but man they are proud of those.

SeaCoupe

Good luck, not many of them around. Stay away from the two piece units. JUNK! But the Single alloy is awesome. Pricey too though. It also comes with a different pulley for the Alternator to keep the revs up for making the amperage you need.

Getting the ASP is a good thing. I know it seems like a lot of work, but it is not. Print off the directions from Buellwinkles website, take them to your mech, and have him do it. No need to be afraid of sensors, etc.

I honestly don't know why anyone with a M111 engine doesn't have the pulley. The suprise on 1.8L coupe owners when you pull away is priceless.

E

C230 Sport Coup

Oh geez, not this discussion again.

Kleeman deletes the harmonic dampener, ASP uses a stock pulley with dampener, ground down with a ring pressed on, tack welded, and balanced.

This is a good thing. No harmonic balancer, bad.
Those of us with V3 ASP have had very good luck, no problems that I can think of from anyone with this pulley/

And beware, there are 3 versions (the 1st 2 are out of production)
of the ASP. You want V3. With dampener.

You can find the extensive arguments on this subject in the archives.

SeaCoupe

Ward, do you think you were being a little hard on the beaver?

My Kleeman single unit has been in use for over 50k miles, and no issues what so ever.

Too bad, you and I never did get to make a head to head run due to my unrelated CEL

jagsy

E I do not think he would want to run with you comparing those list of mods

SeaCoupe

C230 and I know each other. He has a Supersprint Header, and the ASP pulley. He may have an exhaust I don't recall. Any case, nice car, and a nice guy. I just didn't understand his answer. No biggie.

E

C230 Sport Coup

E, I thought you had an ASP.
Damn, you have Kleeman?
Anyway, "back in the day" when these things were first developed,
Brandon and Buell were having it out on a daily basis here in the forums.
It was very amusing. And educational.
Another member posted virtual stress tests on the Kleeman, using mechanical engineering software, designed to show the amount of stress on a given metal at any given point in the design.
He and I met here in San Jose, and I drove my 1st pulleyed C230.
He had every version of the ASP, and taught me how to change the pulley's. Likely he's too busy to read this. An interesting character who grew up in Hong Kong and his family moved here before the
Chinese took over. I want to have him as my tour guide when I go there, as I'm certain he knows the good party spots.

The Kleeman faired not well in his purely theoretical discussion.
The end result appeared ( key word) to be that the Kleeman pulled the alloy pulley from the US market.

The ASP, engineered with Buell's impetus, and assistance went through 2 combobulations before they got it right on #3.
I watched the discussion closely, upgraded my suspension and brakes, and waited, waited, till it was just right.

Meanwhile people with the Kleeman ring had problems, as did those with
early versions of the ASP and later it seemed a number of people with Kleeman alloy were having issues with belts, alternators, water pumps etc.

ASP V3 as just right... IMHO. No problems with mine, and over 80K miles on the clock with it installed. I replaced one tensioner for noise, other than that, still on original alt., SC and water pump.

I don't have an "exhaust" per se, but the manifold, muffler, and Cat have been replaced which just leaves the stock 2" pipe, and with a SC car you want some back pressure.

SeaCoupe

C230;

The kleeman all alloy is there improved version. The belts, have been a problem. Basically stay away from the Goodyear Gatorback belts. Too much squeel (sp?) and chatter.

We still need to make a run!

So are you suggesting not to run my Supersrpint Catback system I have sat on for two years?

E

HeirKranz

I have had my kleeman on for 120,000 miles out of 154,000 i have on her now

My setup pulls like crazy and destroys differentials

read my sig--- I got high 14s in the 1/4 mile consistantly and that was with the stock rear end and stock 17" a little deflated

love the kleeman pully---worth every $800 of what i paid for it
Have an extra used one that is no longer made as well I could let go for relativly cheap--- over the last 4 years I picked up 3 of them to keep for the next m11 i will get---can't beat getting 30mpg and having the extra power when you need it---

Outland

Bigger crank pulleys are the single best bang for the buck mod you can do on the M111 cars. nearly 40HP increase at one crack.


Kleeman had two types- one was a crappy ring pulley(that you can still find, BTW-beware) that almost always ended in disaster. The other is an all aluminum beast that is genuinely stunning to look at- but the diameter is no larger than the large ASP pulley. And as noted- it has no dampener. I've always been of the opinion that the dampener is strictly an NVH tool, and didn't do anything for reliability of the powertrain. Expect this unit to have the best performance- its so much lighter- allows the engine to spin up faster.

ASP actually had four versions. The 'V3' design came in a low boost,and high boost version. I've had mine on four what, 4 years? No problems. The early ASP aluminum ones failed because where the pulley clamped to the crank was relatively thin aluminum- you can't put that amount of torque on that small of a cross section of aluminum, and then subject it that kind of stress - not really a surprise they failed.

Despite all the talk about what pulley is the best design, the biggest source of failures was definitely the owner. They installed them wrong- not enough torque, damaged the oil seal, or shoved the key back into the engine.

If you install it right, beware that the weakest link here isn't going to be a pulley- its the damn MB rear differential. I blew mine on stock power- go easy on the 1 -2 gear changes if you want it to last.

jagsy

Sent you a Pm on the kleeman, interested.

C230 Sport Coup

All true.
All these things were discussed to death "back in the day" ( I been hearing this saying a lot lately, in everything from muscle cars to prior cocaine usage) hence me saying, oh no not again, and search the forum.

Buell and others discussed the harmonic dampener, or as it should be called, function to death. Sometimes the dampeners can become separated from the rest of the pulley over time, so you need to look.
Something some people never do. Every time I wash my car, I open the hood, inspect the obvious things like belts, pullies and hoses.

I had heard the gatorback belts are bad, (mkay?) since our cars use both sides of the belt, though I'm running them now since I bought and installed before I knew. Keeping an eye on them, and
sometime in the near future I'll get some normal belts and replace them.
Things did quiet down quite a bit though when I used them, but I confirmed with my SA that they are not optimal.

Also discussed "back in the day" was that the lower weight of the Kleeman pulley has little effect, since the pulley becomes part of the overall drivetrain once it's in gear, and thats the engine, transmission, diff and wheels. Weight of the pulley? Nothing compared to all that.

Lucky me (crossing fingers) no blown diffs yet! But I have an auto which robs a good 20 hp from the wheels.

What means NVH?

If anyone needs a pulley installed in Norcal, I can teach you how.
I've had mine in and out at least 10 times, when the car was under warranty. he he...I know the tricks to doing it right.
50 dollar to make me holla.

[Outland;2442343]The other is an all aluminum beast that is genuinely stunning to look at- but the diameter is no larger than the large ASP pulley. And as noted- it has no dampener. I've always been of the opinion that the dampener is strictly an NVH tool, and didn't do anything for reliability of the powertrain. Expect this unit to have the best performance- its so much lighter- allows the engine to spin up faster.

Despite all the talk about what pulley is the best design, the biggest source of failures was definitely the owner. They installed them wrong- not enough torque, damaged the oil seal, or shoved the key back into the engine.

If you install it right, beware that the weakest link here isn't going to be a pulley- its the damn MB rear differential. I blew mine on stock power- go easy on the 1 -2 gear changes if you want it to last.[/quote]

jagsy

Alright you guys are driving me nuts. I just want to get the pulley and get it installed so I can drive drive drive.

valexv

im also planning for an asp pulley...one day

jolenicz

NVH = Noise, Vibration, and Harshness. Maybe Outland only means trivial vibrations that result in a less-smooth ride. Or maybe he is on to the reason why vibrations created the need to design a harmonic balancer. The harmonic balancer provides damping to the crankshaft. If you run a pulley without a harmonic balancer, you do not dampen the vibrations in the crankshaft that occur a part of cylinder firing and crank rotation. A crank that happens to be vibrating at it's natural frequency will amplify the effect of any input load. An undamped, vibrating crankshaft can be excited by additional load (such as push from a connecting rod when a cylinder fires). Maybe, the M111 crank bearings and such are overbuilt so much that this additional vibration doesn't lead to crankshaft failure. But, the reason to have a harmonic balancer is to improve the life of the crankshaft, not the life of the pulley.

In theory, the ASP design is better for your engine than the Kleeman. There can be no argument about that. There can be arguement about how overbuilt the engine is, and wether or not it needs the additional benefit of the harmonic balancer. It sounds like the engine is so overbuilt that removing the harmonic balancer isn't affecting engine life noticeably.

C230 Sport Coup

The idea of the dampener is to absorb some of the vibrations, ie harmonics,
that are generated by the belts and things they turn.
The idea is to absorb some of it, and avoid having it get to the crank, and associated bearings and avoid damage caused by said vibrations, ie harmonics.

People argued to the death that it was
a. neccessary
b. uneccessary.

After reading everything, and the fact the all the other mfg. of pullies (Vaeth, Renntech, maybe others, Carlson?) except Kleeman retained the damper, I went with a pulley based on a stock pulley, which to me seemed the safest bet and so far it's been a good bet. Yeh it's heavy...so what?
The dyno's kicked butt, and after driving one, I was hooked.
Plus, the ASP was and is the least expensive way to go, since our very own Buellwinkle took it upon himself to get er done. Except perhaps if you can get a used Kleeman...but they were close to a grand new. And they expected you to get it installed by a Kleeman distributor (or void the warranty) and they charged like 800-1000 just to install it, which was a complete joke.

They withdrew it's distribution from the US at the height of the arguement,
which led most of us to conclude that ASP, Buell, 20FHK02,(our mechical engineer friend who showed the stress levels at the point of contact on the Kleeman to out of bounds for the material used) had just plained kick Kleeman's butt, and all their rediculous claims about how they had resolved issues with fuel air ratio's magically...
(you really should go back and read this crap)
just kicked them right out of the country.
Or so it seemed.....back in the day.....