Yearly Subscription Ploy?
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From: Brookshire, Texas & Cat Spring, Texas
2019 SL550/2023 EQS 580 SUV
Yearly Subscription Ploy?
I’ve had two weeks to go through all the settings on my 580 and have them set where I prefer.
Tonight I went to the MB site for yearly accessory subscriptions and noted 3 of them are working in my EQS.
I now assume they will stop a year from now and if I like them I will have to re-subscribe. This is disappointing as
I initially thought they were a permanent part of the software since they have been there since day one. A real bummer from MB…..🙁
Tonight I went to the MB site for yearly accessory subscriptions and noted 3 of them are working in my EQS.
I now assume they will stop a year from now and if I like them I will have to re-subscribe. This is disappointing as
I initially thought they were a permanent part of the software since they have been there since day one. A real bummer from MB…..🙁
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2016
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From: Brookshire, Texas & Cat Spring, Texas
2019 SL550/2023 EQS 580 SUV
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Joined: Sep 2022
Posts: 63
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From: Santa Barbara
2017 Acura NSX
I guess this is the trend going forward, however I think Mercedes should have given every owner the first year free on everything (even the AMG) Especially given the price of the car is over $100,000. Otherwise I think people are going to be very unhappy. I pay around $100 per year for premium services from Tesla on my model X.
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I'm very leery of Mercedes regarding subscription for basic vehicle services such as navigation, ... My '18 E300 came with internet connectivity, web browser and several apps. Unfortunately at the end of year 3, those services stopped with no ability to renew them. When the roads get congested I especially miss the ability to view traffic cams so I can detour around blockages.
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2019 C63CS
Your house, which I assume was a lot more expensive didn't come with lifetime utilities, either, or did it? These are ongoing services with ongoing costs that need to be paid for. Live traffic etc. doesn't come out of thin air. Requires an infrastructure that needs to be kept running, support and developer staff and that all costs money. The price of the car didn't include that for an unlimited number of years. You get 1 year included with the purchase of the car. Used to be 3 years. You won't lose basic navigation after 1 year, but all the features that require online connectivity require a subscription. Just like your cell phone requires a subscription for monthly service. BTW, you also need to pay for the electricity to keep your car running. That wasn't included in the purchase price, either. Why are so many people surprised that the data connection and online services for their car costs money on an ongoing basis? It's no different from utilities, fuel, mobile phone service, your home Internet connection, cable, streaming services etc.
Last edited by superswiss; Nov 11, 2022 at 12:17 PM.
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Joined: Sep 2022
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From: Santa Barbara
2017 Acura NSX
I suspect that one of the reasons you are seeing subscription fees is the fact that transitioning from ICE to BEV is very costly for most all manufacturers as opposed to organizations like Tesla and other BEV makers who are not dealing with legacy costs. There is a realization that car companies are no longer growing volume like Tesla. Big organizations like VW, GM, Ford, Salantis, are all feeling the extra costs associated with maintaining two essentially separate organizations. They need new revenue streams and Subscriptions keep giving. The problem is that you need to provide value to the customer, otherwise they won’t pay extra. BMW took it in the shorts when they tried to sell subscriptions for heated seats. Customers revolted and BMW backed off.
in the next 5 to 10 years when autonomous driving actually comes to realization, sales will drop as owners will loan out their cars so that they can amortize the cost. Currently most cars sit idle 20 plus hours each day. Why have a depreciating asset sit idle. Costs will continue to climb so fewer people will want to own. It is all about utility and convenience. Perhaps high end vehicles will continue to sit in the garage as those folks can afford that option.
in the next 5 to 10 years when autonomous driving actually comes to realization, sales will drop as owners will loan out their cars so that they can amortize the cost. Currently most cars sit idle 20 plus hours each day. Why have a depreciating asset sit idle. Costs will continue to climb so fewer people will want to own. It is all about utility and convenience. Perhaps high end vehicles will continue to sit in the garage as those folks can afford that option.
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Out Of Control!!
Joined: Nov 2018
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From: San Francisco Bay Area
2019 C63CS
I suspect that one of the reasons you are seeing subscription fees is the fact that transitioning from ICE to BEV is very costly for most all manufacturers as opposed to organizations like Tesla and other BEV makers who are not dealing with legacy costs. There is a realization that car companies are no longer growing volume like Tesla. Big organizations like VW, GM, Ford, Salantis, are all feeling the extra costs associated with maintaining two essentially separate organizations. They need new revenue streams and Subscriptions keep giving. The problem is that you need to provide value to the customer, otherwise they won’t pay extra. BMW took it in the shorts when they tried to sell subscriptions for heated seats. Customers revolted and BMW backed off.
in the next 5 to 10 years when autonomous driving actually comes to realization, sales will drop as owners will loan out their cars so that they can amortize the cost. Currently most cars sit idle 20 plus hours each day. Why have a depreciating asset sit idle. Costs will continue to climb so fewer people will want to own. It is all about utility and convenience. Perhaps high end vehicles will continue to sit in the garage as those folks can afford that option.
in the next 5 to 10 years when autonomous driving actually comes to realization, sales will drop as owners will loan out their cars so that they can amortize the cost. Currently most cars sit idle 20 plus hours each day. Why have a depreciating asset sit idle. Costs will continue to climb so fewer people will want to own. It is all about utility and convenience. Perhaps high end vehicles will continue to sit in the garage as those folks can afford that option.
Last edited by superswiss; Nov 11, 2022 at 12:45 PM.
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Your house, which I assume was a lot more expensive didn't come with lifetime utilities, either, or did it? These are ongoing services with ongoing costs that need to be paid for. Live traffic etc. doesn't come out of thin air. Requires an infrastructure that needs to be kept running, support and developer staff and that all costs money. The price of the car didn't include that for an unlimited number of years. You get 1 year included with the purchase of the car. Used to be 3 years. You won't lose basic navigation after 1 year, but all the features that require online connectivity require a subscription. Just like your cell phone requires a subscription for monthly service. BTW, you also need to pay for the electricity to keep your car running. That wasn't included in the purchase price, either. Why are so many people surprised that the data connection and online services for their car costs money on an ongoing basis? It's no different from utilities, fuel, mobile phone service, your home Internet connection, cable, streaming services etc.
Without map updates basic navigation is marginal at best as roads can change, open and close.
Last edited by ua549; Nov 12, 2022 at 09:16 AM.
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From: Santa Barbara
2017 Acura NSX
I wonder if the loss of connection was associated with the 3g modem that many cars had. I was really surprised that the new EQS comes with the 4g modem rather then the newer 5g. There are a couple of new cars out now that have 5g. You cannot generally change out modems, depending on whether they are separate modules. My 2017 Acura NSX came with a 3g modem. This year the 3g service was discontinued. Acura went ahead and paid for the newer 2018 4g modem put in my car. This was because I was a subscriber to Acura Link. Acura Link cost me around $200 per year and covers location, door unlocking, etcetera.
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But I always had the option to renew a feature in other vehicles. Not so with my '18 E300. Internet, browser and traffic functions were cut off with no notice and no ability to pay for a renewal. My previous Mercedes had permanent access to all features initially included with the car when new. Even Mercedes me expired and Mercedes me connect is not compatible with my E300. It would be different if Mercedes put in writing some sort of guaranteed service renewal policy or permanent expiration policy. Purchasers would know what to expect. Instead without warning, important vehicle functionality is permanently turned off.
Without map updates basic navigation is marginal at best as roads can change, open and close.
Without map updates basic navigation is marginal at best as roads can change, open and close.
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From: Santa Barbara
2017 Acura NSX
In the end most all car companies are focused on selling new vehicles and CPO vehicles that are still relatively new. Older cars are lower on the list of priorities. So I understand that changing technology is not on their radar. Having said that, buying a car represents the second largest purchase behind a home that the majority of people experience. In some instances it is the largest.
So Car manufactures should understand that helping people utilize their cars over the long run helps create a positive attitude towards that supplier. It is one thing to have technology change, it is another thing to offer the customer an alternative.
If I buy something I expect it will continue to work and requires maintenance and in some instances upgrades. What I don’t like is when say the 3g modem stops being supported and the car company says go screw yourself rather then say here is a solution that will cost you, but it will result in an extension of utility. I think customer service and loyalty demands that. Those who pay attention will thrive while those who only care about today’s transaction will ultimately fade away.
So Car manufactures should understand that helping people utilize their cars over the long run helps create a positive attitude towards that supplier. It is one thing to have technology change, it is another thing to offer the customer an alternative.
If I buy something I expect it will continue to work and requires maintenance and in some instances upgrades. What I don’t like is when say the 3g modem stops being supported and the car company says go screw yourself rather then say here is a solution that will cost you, but it will result in an extension of utility. I think customer service and loyalty demands that. Those who pay attention will thrive while those who only care about today’s transaction will ultimately fade away.
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I think car manufacturers will have to learn to design cars in a more upgradable fashion, especially with electrification as these things become so digital and are mostly laptops on wheels than an actual car. On the other hand, the electric drivetrain and battery technology we have today is in my opinion not here for the long run, so not sure how long these cars will actually last. As far as the modem is concerned, it can technically be replaced in a Mercedes. It's called the HERMES module and is separate from the Infotainment system. It's basically a mobile router that uses Wi-Fi for COMAND and MBUX to connect to it. As far as I know they have done that in Europe. The first W213s came with a 3G HERMES module and MB offered an upgrade to 4G for them. One of the issues in other markets is that it's not Germany that decides what's getting offered. In the USA it's MB USA that decides. For example there are several Mercedes companion apps that we don't get in the USA, specifically because MB USA doesn't wanna support them.
Last edited by superswiss; Nov 12, 2022 at 01:04 PM.
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Services are subject to termination for various reasons. It's stated in the EULA you agreed to when you signed up. It's specifically stated that services could be terminated if required technologies are no longer commercially available for example. Live traffic in your case for example was cut off, because TomTom, the provider, decided they no longer wanted to support it. 3G networks being turned off in the USA is another reason why many cars, even the ones you had services for in the past, lost all their online services. Technology moves on unfortunately. There's no lifetime guarantee on technology and expiration also cannot be predicted.
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Originally Posted by ua549
My '18 E300 (7/17 build, 8/17 delivery) came with the 4G LTE Hermes 2.0 module. The only EULA agreement I signed was an agreement not to export the vehicle ftom North America for 1 year. I did not need to "activate" anything because a fully functioning vehicle was delivered including the entertainment system presets. There was no stipulation or notice about services termination. I knew that the services were for a period of 3 years and the dealer stated that they could be renewed when they expired. THAT WAS FALSE!!! Not only did I lose navigation, Mercedes me cell phone app stopped working. What is left is a deaf and dumb car that is otherwise like new with 20k miles. This car is on an six year replacement schedule so I have another year before replacement.
Last edited by superswiss; Nov 12, 2022 at 04:24 PM.
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I did not create an account. My dealer setup everything prior to delivery. The only EULA presented was the no export agreement. My gripe is about the non-renewable features that essentially disable the car - no cell phone app control and no navigation. I'd willing pay for them, but they are not avvailable!
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Fair enough. I would have had a word with that dealer for setting up an account in my name w/o my consent. My sales guy had me download the app, then create an account which I did before even going in to pick up the car, and then they added the car to my account. That's the only thing they should be doing. They have no business creating an account with your personal information. Technically I already owned the car at that point anyway, because I did European Delivery. Anyway, this is something for you to take up with your dealer.
I certainly understand the frustration of owning a 4-5 year old car that basically has obsolete technology at this point. I wouldn't go as far as saying it disables the car, though. You can still drive it. All this stuff is non-essential to the operation of the car. You should also have Apple CarPlay and Android Auto, so that can still be used for full navigation with traffic. That'd be my fallback if these services were to be terminated while I still own my current car. This is only my second car that has online services and an app to go with and my wife's car is still a dumb car. I sold my previous one before it lost all its services due to the 3G shutdown. I did just fine with dumb cars in the past, but I understand that it sucks to have to go back. I live a connected life complete with smart home and a smart car now, so one starts to expect it.
I certainly understand the frustration of owning a 4-5 year old car that basically has obsolete technology at this point. I wouldn't go as far as saying it disables the car, though. You can still drive it. All this stuff is non-essential to the operation of the car. You should also have Apple CarPlay and Android Auto, so that can still be used for full navigation with traffic. That'd be my fallback if these services were to be terminated while I still own my current car. This is only my second car that has online services and an app to go with and my wife's car is still a dumb car. I sold my previous one before it lost all its services due to the 3G shutdown. I did just fine with dumb cars in the past, but I understand that it sucks to have to go back. I live a connected life complete with smart home and a smart car now, so one starts to expect it.
Last edited by superswiss; Nov 12, 2022 at 05:47 PM.
