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This is a totally stupid perspective. It would only make sense if people were buying these cars for long road trips.
Most people who buy luxury cars use them around town, and take flights for long trips. Anything more than a two hour drive, I would take a plane. And so would most people I know who buy $100k plus cars. Further people who have cars at this price point have lots of cars, and usually will have an ICE car in the garage.
I don't think someone like you is the target customer. It's people like me. I personally couldn't care less if there is no charging infrastructure because I will only charge the car in my own garage.
FWIW I fawking HATE planes and would rather drive, even though I do not LOVE long road trips......it beats the hell out of dealing with ANY airline people not to mention the Pandamnit going on right now.
Just sayin'.
As mentioned previously by so many others, these “battery operated” vehicles are one thing, but the lack of a substantial, convenient, easy to use, nationwide, recharging infrastructure is the huge deal here. WHEN will we hear of MBUSA’s plans for satiating this 600 pound gorilla in the room?
What percent of your gasoline do you buy more that 50 miles away from your home?
[/QUOTE Charging network isn't MBUSA's problem. The federal government and the CARB states have mandated that these cars exist. A charging network is their problem. California can't handle their electricity demands right now.
I’m sure you’re right, but if our idiot government officials are responsible for providing charging locations, I can’t imagine ever having a battery operated vehicle. Here in LaLa Land, we are watching as our Laurel & Hardy government is flushing billions down the toilet on a high speed railroad that will probably never run.[/QUOTE]
What specifically is your objective to the high speed rail project? Fundamentally it seems to be a good idea.
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
Originally Posted by MBNUT1
I’m sure you’re right, but if our idiot government officials are responsible for providing charging locations, I can’t imagine ever having a battery operated vehicle. Here in LaLa Land, we are watching as our Laurel & Hardy government is flushing billions down the toilet on a high speed railroad that will probably never run.
What specifically is your objective to the high speed rail project? Fundamentally it seems to be a good idea.[/QUOTE]
If you mean what is my objection, I could go on forever. Let me first say that I would absolutely LOVE a high speed train in California and across the rest of the country for that matter. I have ridden high speed trains in Germany and other countries in Europe and they are magnificent. Unfortunately, the California High Speed Rail Authority has made so many mistakes in the undertaking of this massive project, that a majority of people in the know, feel that the project will never be completed.
First of all, they started building, when they had not yet acquired many of the parcels of land needed for the right-of-way. Wealthy farmers have fought them in court at every turn as the proposed routes cut farms in half. Then, they started building the easiest portion of the line, the part that runs in the flat lands of the Central Valley of CA, which is primarily farmland. The most difficult portion is the where the train must go over or through the mountains between the Central Valley and the greater Los Angeles basin. So, they have now spent billions, they still don't own all the parcels they need in the Central Valley and they don't even KNOW how they will get the tracks from the Bakersfield area to L.A. AND, when they start to try and acquire homes and businesses in the massively populated areas of L.A., Orange County, San Diego County, etc., if they think they had it hard dealing with the farmers in the Central Valley, just wait. This system was originally put before the California voters with a budget of $35 Billion and that was for a fully operating system between San Francisco & L.A. and all the way down to San Diego. It has been TWELVE years, they have spent $100 Billion and the tracks have not been built anywhere even close to SF or LA. As a matter of fact, NO trains are running on the system, because even the crummy, little portion in the Central Valley is not yet up and running. I'm a patriotic American, but I am rapidly losing faith in the ability of state and federal governments to do much of ANYTHING right anymore.
2015 CLS 550 2015 ML 400 Previous 2020 GLB 250 2019 A 220 2005 ML 350 1989 300 E 2001 SL 500
Originally Posted by stealth.pilot
The federal government's and Carb haven't mandated the existence of these cars. Consumer demand has. tesla's are continuing to sell like hot cakes and there is no federal tax credit on these cars any more. It is simply a superior experience to have a car which is silent, has amazing power delivery, and which you never have to waste time filling up at a petrol station.
Incorrect. CARB has a percentage requirement for these cars and it is scheduled to go up over the next several years. The federal gov't has long called for electric cars and Pres Biden just mandated replacing the federal fleet with electric vehicles.
This is not a consumer driven change. Aside from Tesla(and it has taken years for Tesla to be profitable) no one is making money on these cars.
SUV demand is a consumer driven change, hence anyone selling SUV's is making money.
Electric cars only make sense for the wealthy who typically have an ICE car in their fleet.
The average consumer doesn't have that option. They need one car to do everything and placing a charging station in their home or worse yet apartment isn't economically feasible.
I think electric cars have their place, buts lets not pretend they are an answer for everyone.
Incorrect. CARB has a percentage requirement for these cars and it is scheduled to go up over the next several years. The federal gov't has long called for electric cars and Pres Biden just mandated replacing the federal fleet with electric vehicles.
This is not a consumer driven change. Aside from Tesla(and it has taken years for Tesla to be profitable) no one is making money on these cars.
SUV demand is a consumer driven change, hence anyone selling SUV's is making money.
Electric cars only make sense for the wealthy who typically have an ICE car in their fleet.
The average consumer doesn't have that option. They need one car to do everything and placing a charging station in their home or worse yet apartment isn't economically feasible.
I think electric cars have their place, buts lets not pretend they are an answer for everyone.
100%. Whoever thinks this is consumer driven is way off the mark.
What specifically is your objective to the high speed rail project? Fundamentally it seems to be a good idea.
If you mean what is my objection, I could go on forever. Let me first say that I would absolutely LOVE a high speed train in California and across the rest of the country for that matter. I have ridden high speed trains in Germany and other countries in Europe and they are magnificent. Unfortunately, the California High Speed Rail Authority has made so many mistakes in the undertaking of this massive project, that a majority of people in the know, feel that the project will never be completed.
First of all, they started building, when they had not yet acquired many of the parcels of land needed for the right-of-way. Wealthy farmers have fought them in court at every turn as the proposed routes cut farms in half. Then, they started building the easiest portion of the line, the part that runs in the flat lands of the Central Valley of CA, which is primarily farmland. The most difficult portion is the where the train must go over or through the mountains between the Central Valley and the greater Los Angeles basin. So, they have now spent billions, they still don't own all the parcels they need in the Central Valley and they don't even KNOW how they will get the tracks from the Bakersfield area to L.A. AND, when they start to try and acquire homes and businesses in the massively populated areas of L.A., Orange County, San Diego County, etc., if they think they had it hard dealing with the farmers in the Central Valley, just wait. This system was originally put before the California voters with a budget of $35 Billion and that was for a fully operating system between San Francisco & L.A. and all the way down to San Diego. It has been TWELVE years, they have spent $100 Billion and the tracks have not been built anywhere even close to SF or LA. As a matter of fact, NO trains are running on the system, because even the crummy, little portion in the Central Valley is not yet up and running. I'm a patriotic American, but I am rapidly losing faith in the ability of state and federal governments to do much of ANYTHING right anymore.[/QUOTE]
Incorrect. CARB has a percentage requirement for these cars and it is scheduled to go up over the next several years. The federal gov't has long called for electric cars and Pres Biden just mandated replacing the federal fleet with electric vehicles.
This is not a consumer driven change. Aside from Tesla(and it has taken years for Tesla to be profitable) no one is making money on these cars.
SUV demand is a consumer driven change, hence anyone selling SUV's is making money.
Electric cars only make sense for the wealthy who typically have an ICE car in their fleet.
The average consumer doesn't have that option. They need one car to do everything and placing a charging station in their home or worse yet apartment isn't economically feasible.
I think electric cars have their place, buts lets not pretend they are an answer for everyone.
There are plenty of average consumers who have gone electric. Nissan has sold 500,000 Leafs so far. The leaf used to be THE electric car before the Tesla. Most people don't use their cars for long road trips. And going electric saves a lot of money, even if you have to occasionally get a rental for a holiday.
I can also tell you that when I have been at my local Tesla showroom, I noticed some of the people picking up their first Teslas - mostly model 3 and Y cars. They seemed like regular people, trading in Toyotas and Hyundais.
I can also tell you that when I have been at my local Tesla showroom, I noticed some of the people picking up their first Teslas - mostly model 3 and Y cars. They seemed like regular people, trading in Toyotas and Hyundais.
The Model 3 is essentially the Prius of this era, its a hit and has a swarm of buyers from different brands. Most buyers were from mainstream automakers according to this Bloomberg survey, but #2 was the 3-series and there was also an Audi A4 on the list. BMW seems to be the most vulnerable luxury brand to Tesla, I've personally seen a lot of 3-Series owners go to Model 3's, and I'm starting to see X3 and X5's turn into Model X/Y's in my neighborhood.
What specifically is your objective to the high speed rail project? Fundamentally it seems to be a good idea.
If you mean what is my objection, I could go on forever. Let me first say that I would absolutely LOVE a high speed train in California and across the rest of the country for that matter. I have ridden high speed trains in Germany and other countries in Europe and they are magnificent. Unfortunately, the California High Speed Rail Authority has made so many mistakes in the undertaking of this massive project, that a majority of people in the know, feel that the project will never be completed.
First of all, they started building, when they had not yet acquired many of the parcels of land needed for the right-of-way. Wealthy farmers have fought them in court at every turn as the proposed routes cut farms in half. Then, they started building the easiest portion of the line, the part that runs in the flat lands of the Central Valley of CA, which is primarily farmland. The most difficult portion is the where the train must go over or through the mountains between the Central Valley and the greater Los Angeles basin. So, they have now spent billions, they still don't own all the parcels they need in the Central Valley and they don't even KNOW how they will get the tracks from the Bakersfield area to L.A. AND, when they start to try and acquire homes and businesses in the massively populated areas of L.A., Orange County, San Diego County, etc., if they think they had it hard dealing with the farmers in the Central Valley, just wait. This system was originally put before the California voters with a budget of $35 Billion and that was for a fully operating system between San Francisco & L.A. and all the way down to San Diego. It has been TWELVE years, they have spent $100 Billion and the tracks have not been built anywhere even close to SF or LA. As a matter of fact, NO trains are running on the system, because even the crummy, little portion in the Central Valley is not yet up and running. I'm a patriotic American, but I am rapidly losing faith in the ability of state and federal governments to do much of ANYTHING right anymore.[/QUOTE]
Thank you for correctly reading my question and your explanation. It is unfortunate that they are not doing a better job of executing what is fundamentally a good idea. Not sure why they wouldn't take a more thought through approach. It feeds into the narrative that government can't do things well and only wealth concentrators can.
BTW my relatives were / are ranchers in the Central Valley so I know the area pretty well as I graduated from CSUF.
2015 CLS 550 2015 ML 400 Previous 2020 GLB 250 2019 A 220 2005 ML 350 1989 300 E 2001 SL 500
Originally Posted by stealth.pilot
There are plenty of average consumers who have gone electric. Nissan has sold 500,000 Leafs so far. The leaf used to be THE electric car before the Tesla. Most people don't use their cars for long road trips. And going electric saves a lot of money, even if you have to occasionally get a rental for a holiday.
I can also tell you that when I have been at my local Tesla showroom, I noticed some of the people picking up their first Teslas - mostly model 3 and Y cars. They seemed like regular people, trading in Toyotas and Hyundais.
I think you will find the average electric car customer has a much higher than average income. They also usually own more than 1 car.
The "average" car buyer makes less than $50k per year and owns only 1 car.
I sold i3's for BMW and now we carry used Tesla's. Customers always over 6 figures in income.
When people with $40k incomes buy electric cars then it will be market driven
I am with Stealth.pilot on the normal use of EV's. Charging infrastructure is of no relevance to me as the car will be used exclusively in the city and the cars we are discussing will be in the 400+ mile range. I'll be happy with 250 mile range which is what our GTC or M8c are doing in the city (if I am lucky)...
Even though we have a whole house backup generator, I also love the idea that an EV as a backup power supply for the house. How cool is that? So I hope the EQS looks the part inside out and has sufficient power.
I think you will find the average electric car customer has a much higher than average income. They also usually own more than 1 car.
The "average" car buyer makes less than $50k per year and owns only 1 car.
I sold i3's for BMW and now we carry used Tesla's. Customers always over 6 figures in income.
When people with $40k incomes buy electric cars then it will be market driven
The average car buyer almost certainly owns 2 cars. The average number of cars per household in the USA is 1.88. When you factor that there are some households that have no cars such as in NYC, and millennial who use Uber. then limit it to people who actually own cars, it will be over 2.
I think if they were going to do a down sloping aerodynamic hood, they should have made it like project 1 with a low sloping hood, no grill, and the star on the bonnet. if there is no engine in the front, there is no need for a grille.
01-27-2021, 04:22 PM
