On an EV like EQS AWD 450 would mean a less powerful rear motor compared to the current 450? They cannot do it like for ICE cars, no way to run a propeller shaft through the batteries.

 

Its not about power, its about platform. You need 2 motors to do awd. The rear motors are identical. In fact, the basic "skateboard" architecture of all EVs is basically identical. The difference lies in what you attach to it. On steady state situations the 580 and 450 run identically, thats why their range is almost the same. The front activates almost exclusively if you poke the accelerator or if there is wheel slippage. Another reason the range is so similar is the 580 has 2 generators which can provide almost twice the regen! Very elegant, but again, the same thing all other manufacturers do in their dual motor designs.

 

The other advantage of front motors on EV's is that the front motor regen provides greater vehicle stability than rear motor regen. Which would tend to limit the amount of regen that you can apply in a turn. Same as proportional braking on an ICE car.

 

Forgot to mention, you will like the P zero its an excellent summer tire. Only the Michelin PS4 is a little better and only in max adhesion, the Pzero has livelier handling on track coditions. The michelin has longer life which is nice for an ultra summer tire..

 

Isn't the 450 describing the engine power of the EQS, 580 meaning more power than that on a 450? This is why I assume a 450 AWD could not have the same rear engine power as the RWD EQS450. A reduced power rear engine again does not make any sense which is why I thought an AWD EQS450 would not make sense.

 

the difference in power is the addition of the front engine. The front engine is less powerful. The motors on the AMG are essentially the same as the 580 but modified for more cooling thus allowing higher power output. The motors on the 450 and 580 are optimized for range rather than high output. Thats why top speed is capped at 130. The AMG much higher speed 155 is again due to modifications for additional cooling. Everyone is always wondering about 0-60 times which is nonsense. The AMG is all about track performance you can do lots of laps without performance degradation. Of course, as long as the battery lasts... The AMG will be running full tilt long after a Tesla Plaid has been sidelined by thermal management.

 

Seems I cannot formulate my message well, perhaps my language problem. I know the 450 and 580 rear engines are the same. All I'm saying is that adding a front engine to a RWD EQS450 makes it more powerful than an EQS450 and then it isn't a 450 any more (but something between EQS450 and EQS580). Just a dumb comment on the EQS450 AWD, I'll leave it here.

EDIT: initially the response was to this sentence: "Watch them add AWD to the 450 model later on" on an earlier post.

 

No, adding a front engine to a 450 makes it a 580. That’s exactly what the 580 is haha. It’s the all wheel drive dual motor 450!

 

OP. any feedback on what kind of range you're getting with the cold temps?

 

The guys in Norway are getting around 260 highway miles at or below freezing in messy conditions. Not bad, given that cold weather can cause around a 30% reduction. Those Norway bloggers are a nutty lot😁.

 

Edmunds got 422 miles on a 450+ in warm California. I hope that's a common and reachable range!

 

As all estimates say "your milage will vary". The EPA estimate is a safe assumption: 350 even in mostly highway driving which is the worst scenario for an EV. Again the EQS aerodynamics make it particularly good for the highway compared to other EVs. Their extraordinary efforts in that particular front are no mystery since the normal highway speed in most of Europe is 80mph. SUVs in particular will hurt on the highway due to their inevitable boxy shape.

 

If my car arrives before March Ill let you know how it does in truly frigid conditions. Jan and Feb around here can be below -20F absolute temp! A day sitting at an open parking lot at those temps is the ultimate test 😁
Im certain there will be a lot of power used simply keeping the battery warm.

 

Climate control will also kill battery life.

 

True but for over 100k, even in eco mode, the climate control is not affected.

 

Sat in a EQS450+ today. The one I looked at was white and they had a black 580 which to my surprise didn't look that much better. The instrument cluster didn't look as bad as I think that it would on the W223 because the high dash gives it a more integrated look. Which gives me some hope for the EQE. Thought the seats seemed kind of cheap looking / feeling definitely not S Class plush. Not wild about the relatively narrow (top to bottom) windshield. Liked the hatch configuration and the voluminous space there.

 

I was referring to battery life as it affects range. Changing inside air temperatures by 20° to 30° from exterior air temperatures can reduce range by 50%.

 

This is not true. Experience with an EV and simple laws of Physics will quickly prove that this is not true. To get a feel for this, imagine a very inefficient resistive electric heater of 1kW or 2kW: it would heat the inside of a car in very, very cold conditions. This is <2% of the battery capacity. Most EVs have heat pumps that are much more efficient than resistive heaters. The largest effect of temperature is the extra energy required to heat the batteries. Actual measurements have shown a maximum decrease at very low temperatures of ~30% (measured in Norway on the EQS and others). On an Audi Etron there is published data (and observed by me) - a decrease of 15% between 25C and -5C. Compared to this decrease, the inside heating is almost negligible.

 

I haven't run the numbers, but in general very cold or very hot operation carries a penalty of around 30%. The the reports from guys in Norway of winter driving ranges of around 260 miles sound completely plausible. In fact that is actually an excellent range for that particular codition. Let's not forget an EV even with a huge battery as the EQ has the energy of around a few gallons of gas. Any parastic losses such as running the AC compressor or the heating system will cut significantly into the range. Particularly the heater, in a gas vehicle the heater runs on "wasted" heat. In effect increasing the overall efficiency of the gas engine. A EV needs to warm not only the cabin but also the battery itself! I'm guessing that running at 0C virtually cancels all the energy provided from regen. Again these are all best guesses. Thats why the EPA range is useful as an average, yes you can get over 400 miles real world BUT..... in adverse conditions it could be 260! Caveat emptor.

 

Ran the numbers....the EQS battery is exactly 3.2 gallons of gas. Given electric vs ICE efficiency. Multiply it by 2.5 ......8 gallons of gas equivalent total! A similar gas powered car (S580) (20 mpg) would get 160 mile range!

 

You are right. Also, keep in mind that 2/3 of the energy from an ICE is wasted as heat so you get the heat as a byproduct to moving the car. Electric motors are very efficient with little energy wasted and i think most of the little heat produced is used heating the battery and the passengers. My point was that writing "50% decrease due to cabin heating" is simply incorrect and easily proven.

 

Test drove an EQS 450+ and it's a car I love but will never buy.

The car I drove was an early build (production #1,000) and it didn't have many of the features that make an S-Class so special. Some of it was due to supply chain issues (no soft closing or convenience closing doors, ventilated seats) but some were just inherently poor design choices, chief of which (and my real dealbreaker) was the lack of back seat comfort as the seat backs are too upright and the seat bottoms angled too far back. The combination of the two means that your knees are too high and torso too far forward for comfort. Not sure how power rear seats might help that since space seems too limited to do anything approaching S580 rear seat comfort.

I absolutely love the ride, the rear cargo accommodations, silence, driving feel, and technology; can live with some of the supply chain issues; but that back seat is intolerable.

Geez I wish MB would bring the S580e to the states. Maybe an enterprising dealer can put together a group buy to make it worthwhile...

 

I've been trying to find an EQS optioned with the power rear seats to try out. I didn't mind my time in the back of the EQS when I had a friend test drive one, but I am also not so considerate of my rear passengers since I drive a CLS and I prefer to drive in all cases Maybe that would at least help by providing a more relaxed rear seat position. Are you regularly spending time in the back seat of your car?

The upcoming BMW i7 and 7-Series PHEV may be the best option for you then as it will likely mimic the current gen's rear seat accommodations, that being said you also have to be able to withstand some of BMW's current design choices.

 

I have never run heat. The A/C runs 100% of the time to keep the cabin at 65°F. Today, as an experiment on my E300 I ran an identical 10 mile course and speed with and without the A/C (ambient air 87°F). The results were surprising - with A/C on 21 mpg as displayed on the vehicle's instrument panel; with A/C off 26 mpg was displayed. That represents a 24% penalty for using A/C. I wonder if electric vehicles have similar results.

 

The AC should run all the time it keeps the humidity under control regardless if the heat is running or not. Of course when its actually cooling it will draw more energy.