c4004matic

​​​​​​​This is true, but all EV lose significant rage in the cold regardless of the pump. You are looking at it as cup half empty instead of thinking of its extended summer range as cup half full. If the EQS is on the top of heap in winter range they have still accomplished what they set out to do. 60% of 400 is 240. 70% of 300 is 225. It might be inelegant, but you still beat your competitor. I think the wise thing is to use the EPA for comparison, 350, everything beyond that in summer is a bonus with knowledge that in very cold climes 250 might be what you get. Please note a heat pump is no panacea as the conditions get colder its advantages disappear. IN general it benefits are best in temperatures around or slightly above freezing. Once it gets below zero F it doesnt make much difference, and the resistive heaters have to take over.

superswiss

Agreed. I've actually argued in the past that the EPA etc. should rate worst case and anything you get on top due to favorable conditions is essentially bonus. Even with an ICE few ever manage EPA rated mpg. They are fantasy numbers for the most part. I understand, though, that won't fly, because what is worst case? If one constantly floors the car it won't get very far, ICE or EV alike. Currently it's a bit of a mess really as the EPA has different processes by which manufacturers can certify their cars. Not all process require cold climate testing, and instead allow extrapolation.

c4004matic

Precisely!

c4004matic

Right or wrong, Mercedes opted to put "the beans" in the aerodynamics, something it has been polishing for 80 years or more in designing cars and racing them and, which of course, they have enormous investment already baked in. Not only that, They are experts at market researchAgain, a century of experience, they know that electric vehicle owners want a distinctive car, something that will set it apart from the rest of the herd, as Toyota amply proved with the Prius. If Toyota had simply put "synergy drive" in a Corolla and called a Corolla hybrid, no one would have bought it. In usual mercedes fashion they came with a car that looks different but very purposefully so, with restrained (teutonic) styling.​​​​​​​There are a lot of tubers crying "it so ugly" but those are the same boobheads that think that the new Tundra looks good when in fact, it has so much "Im Macho" styling that anyone that says it looks good is most definitely overcompensating for some perceived effeminate tendencies.🤣

stealth.pilot

lucid has an even bigger battery and a heat pump

c4004matic

it also has a lot more HP. Its all about tradeoffs. ​​​​​​​BTW every time I read about Lucid the capabilities and specs seem to be different. The 1000 hp version is only 50 cars yada yada yada. Now its 700 500 miles now 400 miles. The more I read the more like a scam or Tesla BS it seems.

AppleFan1

If I'm reading and understanding your post correctly, you are stating that an ICE does not suffer from reduced range in winter. That's not true at all. I can vouch that my 2019 S450 definitely has reduced range with temperatures less than 20 degrees F. And, if it's down around zero F, the range is reduced even more. Maybe I'm not understanding what you actually mean.

c4004matic

The magnitude of the loss is much lower. 3mpg or so in my case.

c4004matic

The magnitude of the loss is much lower. 3mpg or so in my case.

superswiss

Right, as stated above it's minimal. The difference is mainly due to fuel blends in the winter vs summer. Generally though, combustion engines like cold more than hot, especially turbo charged engines as the intake air is much colder, leading to less rich mixture to keep the combustion chamber cool, etc. and they make more power with cooler air, because colder air is denser. Technically, they are also more efficient in the winter, because instead of letting all the waste heat escape into the environment, some of it is used to heat the interior.

stealth.pilot

It’s probably your Saudi hatred tinting your perspective. You’ve been quite vocal about it and I suspect you can’t stomach the Lucid car being better on any dimension.

Either way we will have a solid comparison once Edmunds range tests the Lucid, and EVInsider range tests the EQS. I’d be shocked if the Lucid doesn’t come out on top.

And to be clear I am not biased, I vastly prefer the EQS. But unlike a lot of Americans I respect science, facts and data.

AppleFan1

Man, I don't know about that. I typically get 29-32 mpg in nice warm weather on the highway and about 18-19 mpg in city driving. I have taken a trip from Des Moines to Copley, OH and back quite a few times. As long as temperatures are at least in the upper 30s and higher, I get fantastic gas mileage. With temperatures in the 70s and 80s, I still get 29-32 mpg with the AC on. The AC seems to have no effect on mpg. However, that goes down to about 23-24 in frigid temperatures.

superswiss

There are a number of factors that can indeed lower the fuel economy. One of the major one that's often overlooked is tire pressure. Your tire pressure drops 1 psi for every 10F drop in temperature, so unless you top off the air when it gets cold then you are driving around in underinflated tires affecting your fuel economy. Driving short distances can also affect it, because the colder it is outside the longer it takes for the engine to reach ideal temperature. If you never drive long enough to reach that point than you are gonna use more fuel. The oil and drive-line fluids will be thicker at colder temperatures, so you have to warm them up and there will be more friction. Remote starting or idling your car in general to warm it up will also reduce fuel economy as you get 0 mpg while you are doing that, plus it only warms up the engine, but not the drive-line. The denser air unfortunately also means it causes more drag.

AppleFan1

Yes, I know and agree with all those factors. You forgot one other very important factor. Wind speed and direction. A strong headwind or crosswind negatively affects gas mileage. I was responding to c4004matic about what he stated that very cold temperatures reduce gas mileage by only about 3 mpg. It is more than that at least for my S450 in very cold temperatures.

hlothery

And a bigger price tag. And who do I take my Lucid to for any problems if I live in San Antonio? I love my EQS. I am convinced that, in cold weather, with timed charging and preconditioning while still connected, that the range can be much better than the 180 miles predicted on the graphs. At 50 degrees, I'm getting predictions of 340 at 80% charge. I'm only having to charge every third or fourth day. This car has plenty of range.

Tjdehya

you are completely missing the point. The simple fact is that whatever the range EQS currently gets in the winter… it would have been BETTER with a heat pump! So the cup is not half empty… it’s just EMPTY!

stealth.pilot

It's not much bigger. Tag on the EQS580 I ordered is $136, and Lucid is $139. Lucid's performance is more comparable to the EQS AMG but with a battery life beyond the 580.

Nonetheless, I don't understand why people defend Mercedes for omitting the heat pump. It is clearly a poor decision. Even in the interview with the EQE product manager, he alludes to the idea they are looking at it and may have it in the mid-cycle refresh.

hlothery

I understand. Not an issue for me, living where I live. I am most intriqued by the 800v technology in the Lucid. Going to be interesting to watch EVs develop over the next decade, assuming I'm still here! But very exciting, IMHO, to be in on the ground floor with the EQS. Hope your 580 is as satisfying for you, and arrives soon.

c4004matic

I don't hate Saudis at all, Bin Salman and his goons thats an entirely different animal.

Diesel Benz

Fair enough, who hates women in Afghanistan? I'm afraid their current leaders are not equally liked. What can we do, support their leaders or do something else? Would purchasing a Lucid support ordinary Saudi people or their leaders? Sorry about the off topic but I'm sensitive on the long history of ignoring dictator's behaviour for the good of (short term) business. Easier for people who do not have any kind of a dictator leading their neighbouring country.