hlothery

Really enjoying my 450+. I have noticed, however, how quickly the SOC estimate drops on a very cold morning. For those of you who have more EV experience, are there different strategies in charging which might mitigate some of this? I have two programs set up, one for 80% and one which I haven't used yet for 100%. I have not used the ECO program, which apparently allows pauses and timed settings focused around a planned departure time. Would finishing charging near departure time keep the battery warm and eliminate some of the cold weather drop off of the SOC estimate? Would like to hear your thoughts.

hlothery

OK, may have answered my own question. Played with the ECO setting in the car. That changes the charge rate to what the car feels is optimal for preserving long battery life....in my case, reducing charge power from 7.7kW to 7.3 kW while charging at home. It also sets the maximum DC charge rate at 110kW, so will need to turn ECO off if I'm on a trip and need to fast charge. Also, it allows me to set a morning departure time, either always, or by each day of the week. In that case, the car's charging will be paused until it needs to start in time to finish at the departure time posted. Finally, you can precondition the cabin (and therefore, I assume, the battery) for the departure time while still hooked up to the home charger, so that should mitigate some of the huge initial drop in SOC estimates in cold weather. I'll be playing with this, and update this thread. Please, anyone with more experience than me chime in to let me know if this is correct. Thanks.

superswiss

There's a German YouTuber called Car Maniac and he now owns an EQS 580. He does very good EV content, but all in German. Don't know if his videos have subtitles. Never checked. However, he just did a video on the EQS efficiency in the winter, specifically about the lack of a heat pump to heat the cabin more efficiently and turns out the EQS would really benefit from a heat pump. Consumption in cold climate is not in line with what Mercedes-Benz promised and their claims that this car doesn't need a heat pump. Having to heat up the cabin takes quite a toll on consumption as he demonstrated. He demonstrated this by using ECO+, which effectively barely heats the cabin and doesn't give any control over the cabin temperature, but anything that actually involved heating the cabin to a comfortable temperature took a toll. He did this with his commute repeating over several days with temperatures around freezing. He achieved around 20-21 kwh/100km consumption in ECO+, but in all other modes the consumption jumped to as high as 29 kwh/100km. So about a 45% higher consumption from just heating the cabin.

c4004matic

With eco mode you can turn off items individually. No nedd to be cold.

hlothery

Understand. This is not exactly what I was talking about. I do not use ECO+ mode when driving, I drive in Comfort mode. This is the ECO charging mode. I wonder if your guy has tried preconditioning the cabin while still hooked up to house charging power. It seems to me that this might be the answer to his dilemma. If I could leave home in the morning with a warm cabin and freshly charged battery, I don't think the initial drain would be as much. However, I admittedly am a newcomer to this tech.

superswiss

Yes, this guy is big on pre-conditiong while the car is still connected to the home charger, and also parks his car in a garage, so it isn't all that cold in the morning. However, I don't remember if he did it for this test, because his primary objective was to find out how much of a difference a heat pump makes. They drove the same route with another EV that had a heat pump and the consumption of that car stayed around 20 kwh/100km regardless of cabin temperature. The conclusion of his test was that the EQS should have a heat pump.

hlothery

Yes, I had noticed a huge drop in SOC predicted mileage on the several 20 degree mornings we recently had in San Antonio. Not so much now. I believe preconditioning while connected will fix that, and I will try it if we get any more cold mornings ( hopefully not!). I have no dog in the heat pump fight. And, I believe that ship has sailed.

c4004matic

As a "waiter" instead of an owner, this is going over my head🙂 This is something that requires hands-on knowledge.

c4004matic

This sounds like what I have read.​​​​​​​

svp6

With all 5 EVs I owned it was the same thing - here are some of my observations:
1. Outside temperature and battery temperature are both very important for consumption / regeneration efficiency. Cannot change the first, so we should optimize the second.
2. Charging the battery is the fastest way to increase battery temp.
3. Driving takes a long time to heat the battery (think at least 20-30 minutes, longer if very cold outside).
4. If you set a departure time, the car will pre-condition usually 15 minutes before. That will increase the battery temp - but usually not at optimal level. My Taycan had the option to display the battery temperature, with the Tesla's and the EQS I am inferring from consumption and regeneration.

With those in mind, I charge to 100% just prior to departure whenever range is important. I usually set 90% charge, then manually activate to 100% as soon as I wake up in the morning, 1-2 hours before departure. From what you describe, Eco charging may accomplish that in a much easier way, so I will give it a go.

The CarManiac guy seems like a good source of info, but I am not sure where he got the info the EQS does not have a heat pump. The Mercedes Benz site says the all EQAs come with a heat pump, I would be shocked if the EQS did not.

hlothery

Yep, I'm definitely learning as I go. On the really cold mornings, the SOC prediction dropped by 30 miles by the time I got to the end of my block. With the need to warm the battery, the cabin, the seats, etc, electric consumption was huge. I believe this can be mitigated by preconditioning the cabin while connected to the home charger for a designated departure time. This is such a fun adventure!

superswiss

Straight from the horse's mouth. It was divulged during the unveiling of the car in Germany where he participated. It's been regularly discussed as unusual since then, given that it's pretty much standard equipment on many EVs and as the EQA shows even MB believes it's a good thing. They claimed the EQS is so efficient and has a large battery that it doesn't need it, however as with many of these things, the real world isn't quite living up to the hype from the engineers.

c4004matic

It does get almost 300 miles in the cold....... I wouldn't call that a bad performance. Many "long range" EV's cant do that in optimum temperatures.​​​​​​​

hlothery

Bet I can get more than that at 80% if I precondition while connected. Time will tell. But, living in San Antonio, I'm probably not the best test dummy for cold weather (which is why I live in San Antonio!).

c4004matic

Well, I'm in WI, the perfect place to test theories (it was -20) a couple of weeks ago. But I have NO CAR YET

AppleFan1

Thus, we need to have someone in Iowa and points north and East test the range when it’s really cold (very frequently in IA) from December through February though December was amazingly mild and so is February for the most part so far. Overall, the rest of February will also be on the above normal level. Yes, I am a meteorologist. However, there will be plenty of mornings in the teens and this Saturday will reach the the single digits to near zero where I live. I know this is more than you guys bargained for. Surely, there have to be some owners of the EQS already in New England. Let’s hear the scoop from there.

Btw, your cold temperatures are a thing of the past in San Antonio.

superswiss

True, it's all relative. It really only matters in relation the car's range in ideal conditions.

svp6

I posted that in a different thread, but here it is again. Range at -10F (-23C) is 180 miles.

c4004matic

I live in an area where there is ZERO DC charging in the immediate area and essentially zero in a 100-mile radius. From WI (my area) to Washington is a relative to an absolute DC charger desert. As you can imagine, frigid temperatures are a fact of life here. I have installed a level 2 charger in my home and in our 2nd home on Lake Superior. That should cover pretty much everywhere I will drive the EQS even in the deepest of winter. However, if I ever wanted to visit family in Seattle and drive there (never have anyway) as of today, it's impossible besides taking a 24 hr plus loop-around to get there. BTW, our town is the final leg northbound of Tesla superchargers. MN is also as bad and bereft of DC fastcharging as WI.

AppleFan1

Thank you svp6! I forgot about the graphs you had shown. I remember on at least one test drive video that the driver said he thinks the EQS range will reach 400+ miles. Of course he was test driving it in warm weather. I see that according to your graph the range is 250 miles at 30 degrees. If one extrapolates, when the temperature reaches the 70s and 80s, it may be possible to reach 400 miles.

AppleFan1

My wife and I were hoping to drive to Seattle from Des Moines to see our son and his family sometime in June with the EQS580. I'll have to see if that will be possible at that time.

stealth.pilot

The lack of heat pump is a huge screw up that Mercedes is in denial about. Thomas questions a Mercedes guy about it in this video at 30:25. His response is very defensive and not very credible.

superswiss

[QUOTE=stealth.pilot;8510205]The lack of heat pump is a huge screw up that Mercedes is in denial about. Thomas questions a Mercedes guy about it in this video at 30:25. His response is very defensive and not very credible./QUOTE]

Yep, basically a complete no-answer. Just his anecdotal experience before Christmas. I have not heard a credible explanation for why it doesn't have one and pretty much everybody who has tested the car in cold temperatures so far in the real world has seen significant drops in range.

c4004matic

Don't think that cars with heatpumps all of a sudden, magically don't lose range or by definition, will have longer range than the EQS. They lose a lower percentage and are thus more efficient when cold. However, Meredes wisely used a huge battery; thus, better efficiency was not really necessary for the vehicle to attain its range targets. 6 the same idea that is used in an ICE vehicle. How do make a car with a V8 go as far as one with a 4cyl? GET A BIGGER TANK!

superswiss

Well, it's a little different, though, because an ICE doesn't suffer from reduced range in the winter. A little bit due to differences in fuel blends, but not because of heating the cabin as that's all done using waste heat and nobody frets over an extra 3 minute gas station stop. A heat pump is the same idea. It uses heat from the environment that's already there in order to heat the cabin. A heat pump only uses about 30% of the energy compared to heating elements if I remember correctly. You are correct, though, even with a heat pump you'll have reduced range, but not as drastic, or maybe not actually, because a heat pump works in reverse of an air conditioner. So in the summer the air conditioner works to cool, and in the winter the heat pump instead works to heat. Both using about the same amount of energy.