Performance Upgrade Subscriptions
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,757
Likes: 957
From: Atlanta
2022 Mercedes EQS 580
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,757
Likes: 957
From: Atlanta
2022 Mercedes EQS 580
The EQS AMG costs $20k more than a 580 and delivers a 0.5 second improvement in acceleration. And BTW The AMG get's marked up by 50k most of the time, so it's really $70k extra.. If that's okay, then why is it not okay to spend an extra $1200 a year to get a second when you own the car for 2-3 years. Certainly more bang for buck.
Do you need a second? no. But you also don't need a Mercedes Benz.
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 819
Likes: 184
From: New England/Florida
2005 SL 500. 2015 S550. 2016 GLE400 2018 S560
I don't think it's silly.
The EQS AMG costs $20k more than a 580 and delivers a 0.5 second improvement in acceleration. And BTW The AMG get's marked up by 50k most of the time, so it's really $70k extra.. If that's okay, then why is it not okay to spend an extra $1200 a year to get a second when you own the car for 2-3 years. Certainly more bang for buck.
Do you need a second? no. But you also don't need a Mercedes Benz.
The EQS AMG costs $20k more than a 580 and delivers a 0.5 second improvement in acceleration. And BTW The AMG get's marked up by 50k most of the time, so it's really $70k extra.. If that's okay, then why is it not okay to spend an extra $1200 a year to get a second when you own the car for 2-3 years. Certainly more bang for buck.
Do you need a second? no. But you also don't need a Mercedes Benz.
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,757
Likes: 957
From: Atlanta
2022 Mercedes EQS 580
I'm guessing that may be why it is unavailable. But it isn't a good reason on their part. As a former AMG owner, I know the difference to an AMG isn't just horsepower.
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,757
Likes: 957
From: Atlanta
2022 Mercedes EQS 580
You seem to lack a basic understanding that just because something doesn't excite you, doesn't mean it isn't of value to someone else. Most people have the decency to stay silent when people post things that don't fit our tastes - like those red coco-mats which I posted pictures of for you. At the age of 90 you seem to have not learned basic courtesy or common sense.
Trending Topics
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2021
Posts: 825
Likes: 263
From: NE KY, on the Ohio River
2018 S560; 2022 EQS450+
You seem to lack a basic understanding that just because something doesn't excite you, doesn't mean it isn't of value to someone else. Most people have the decency to stay silent when people post things that don't fit our tastes - like those red coco-mats which I posted pictures of for you. At the age of 90 you seem to have not learned basic courtesy or common sense.
I regret very much your interpretation of my thoughts and wording.
In a number of threads and topics here, contrary opinions have often been posted in far stronger terms than mine.
Of course, you are entitled to have and express your opinions.
That’s all I have done, without resorting to an “ad hominem” attack, as it pleased you to do.
Gratefully…
Last edited by Newbyloub; Nov 23, 2022 at 10:25 PM.
MB World Stories
The Best of Mercedes & AMG
8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction
Verdad Gallardo
Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
5 Underrated Mercedes-Benz Models That Don't Get the Love They Deserve
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes 300D Has Pushed Well Past 1 Million Miles and It Ain't Stopping
Verdad Gallardo
10 Most Reliable Mercedes-Benz Models You Can Buy Used
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes Teases Updated EQS With Steer-By-Wire and a Yoke
Verdad Gallardo
8 Mercedes Models With Poor Reliability Records
Verdad Gallardo
Junior Member
Joined: Aug 2022
Posts: 74
Likes: 13
EQS 450 4 matic sedan, Mercedes 550S
What is AMG anyhow. I see it all around in upscale communities and golf courses. I was forced to pay for an "AMG exterior" option that I didn't want but didn't have a choice. When I asked my dealer he told me that AMG is sister sport division of MB where they build cars by hand and it's so clean that you can eat your lunch off the floor. As far as I don't intent to eat my lunch off anyone's floor I think I don't care about AMG. Meanwhile as far as I paid for "AMG exterior" should I invest additional $16 for an AMG decal and put it on my EQS 450 4 matic sedan?
Member
Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 137
Likes: 22
From: Western North Carolina
2022 EQS 450+, 2020 C300 Cab, 2019 Jeep GC
As a 450+ owner I don't have a choice for the upgrade subscription, however as I am approaching my delivery anniversary I have had the "opportunity" to pay for the annual subscription for several of the online services. After the initial surprise I have come to understand that there is an annual or monthly cost that MB is paying to keep the car connected to the world and it is up to each of us to decide which if any services we wish to continue(we paid for the location service but not the stolen car assist). As for the performance upgrade I would have thought that it would be in the same category as the DashCam and just a one time purchase as once the computer is updated why would it need doing again.
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2021
Posts: 825
Likes: 263
From: NE KY, on the Ohio River
2018 S560; 2022 EQS450+
Super Member
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 678
Likes: 258
23' EQS AMG
I can understand subscription for NYT, Disney, and the likes. I get new content every time. But if I buy a book, while I don't get to own the writings technically, I do have the right to enjoy the same book every time I read it for as long as I have the book. Annual subscription is BS and just milking more honey. If the first annual subscription gives me 1 second, the renewal better give me 2 seconds.
Junior Member
Joined: Aug 2022
Posts: 74
Likes: 13
EQS 450 4 matic sedan, Mercedes 550S
There is another twist to that. It is not unusual for say web page to charge subscription fee for premium content. However there is no harm to the consumer if he passes on the offer. EQS case is different. Extra power doesn't come out of thin air. MB is forcing clients to carry a heavier more powerful gear that is partially unavailable (unless one pays). Carrying extra load costs money to consumers in energy and wear. No matter how lucrative the recurring revenue may look to Mercedes they should have the decency not to do that. MB is more than welcome to charge fixed upfront $$ amount If they want to position a model between 450 and 580 and let people decide what they want. Just my 2 cents.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 5,328
Likes: 1,089
.
I don't think that there is extra hardware involved. It is a simple software change that allows the motor run at a higher level of output.
It's a similar concept to an IC engine where timing can be changed to provide more power without any hardware changes.
It's a similar concept to an IC engine where timing can be changed to provide more power without any hardware changes.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,524
Likes: 1,181
From: WI
17 E43; 21 GLS580
correct! In fact the motors of the 580 and AMG are exactly the same! All the BS about additional cooling, etc are bunk! The fact is the AMG simply has different SOFTWARE.The suspension is also identical but again has different software calibration. Aside from the optional carbon ceramic brakes the cars are identical
Junior Member
Joined: Aug 2022
Posts: 74
Likes: 13
EQS 450 4 matic sedan, Mercedes 550S
For the sake of example take two motors
100 kW that weights 200 lbs
200 kW that weights 400 lbs
It does make sense for the more powerful motor to be heavier. Correct?
Take two cars first equipped with the first motor. It will have 100 kW power.
Second car has the second motor and will have two options to pay or not to pay annual fee.
If it doesn't than it will have the motor "crippled" to 100 kW and will have the same power as the first car but will carry 200 lbs more all the time.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,025
Likes: 706
From: Santa Monica Mountains
2025 Lucid Air Grand Touring, 2022 F-150, 1926 Rolls-Royce SSG roadster
I believe the "performance subscription" can be circumvented by a hacker on purchased vehicles without consequence. The only hold MBUSA has over the buyer is the warranty. Under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, hacking the car's systems to get it to do what you can get it to do if you pay a ransom is neither "misuse" nor "damage." So the owner will not have the warranty affected.
I originally posted my opinion, above, on an Audi forum of e-tron GT owners (I have one) and we had a lively debate about it. Someone had written that the hack would probably void the warranty. Here was my response:
I originally posted my opinion, above, on an Audi forum of e-tron GT owners (I have one) and we had a lively debate about it. Someone had written that the hack would probably void the warranty. Here was my response:
I disagree. Under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, the manufacturer will have to show that the modifications directly and adversely affected the systems for which the manufacturer is seeking to void the warranty. Since the same systems will operate without adverse affect if the $1,200 ransom is paid to MBUSA, I doubt the manufacturer will be able to meet its burden of proof.
For those interested in the law, the provision of the Act placing the burden of proof on the manufacturer (“warrantor” in the Act), can be found at 15 U.S. Code § 2304(c). It provides that the warrantor’s obligation of repair (in § 2304(a)) “shall not be required . . . if [the warrantor] can show that the defect, malfunction, or failure of any consumer product . . . was caused by damage . . . while in the possession of the consumer, or unreasonable use (including failure to provide reasonable and necessary maintenance).”
I have been a trial lawyer for a little over 50 years and have successfully handled numerous Lemon Law cases for myself (unfortunately) and for friends. It's not my area of expertise, however.
For those interested in the law, the provision of the Act placing the burden of proof on the manufacturer (“warrantor” in the Act), can be found at 15 U.S. Code § 2304(c). It provides that the warrantor’s obligation of repair (in § 2304(a)) “shall not be required . . . if [the warrantor] can show that the defect, malfunction, or failure of any consumer product . . . was caused by damage . . . while in the possession of the consumer, or unreasonable use (including failure to provide reasonable and necessary maintenance).”
I have been a trial lawyer for a little over 50 years and have successfully handled numerous Lemon Law cases for myself (unfortunately) and for friends. It's not my area of expertise, however.
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 981
Likes: 555
Having just come from the BMW M world, where almost everyone "hacks" their cars with piggyback or reflash performance upgrades, exhaust upgrades, etc, yielding incredible performance numbers, I can tell you that a hack should definitely be possible in the aftermarket. However, you pay for that as well, so what's the difference? I bought my 450+ because I wanted a mileage star. I understand, and do not disparage those who want that performance. I just do not. I can tell you, however, that several BMW owners did void their warranties when BMW discovered the hacks. And several owners also did other things to the engine, like stripped crank bolts, etc, which cost lots of money. May not be an issue with an electric motor, though. Performance upgrades are a fact of life among motor sports enthusiasts. YMMV.
Last edited by hlothery; Nov 27, 2022 at 04:54 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,025
Likes: 706
From: Santa Monica Mountains
2025 Lucid Air Grand Touring, 2022 F-150, 1926 Rolls-Royce SSG roadster
Precisely. If I had acquired a Merc EV that required extra dough to unlock all of its performance, I would have been happy to pay a one time fee to access it. But a "subscription" for performance on a vehicle I own is a ripoff. (There are subscriptions for other things on our cars, but they are mostly services which include some supervision and staffing, so they generally cost the car companies money. And none of them is an outrageous $100 a month, potentially in perpetuity.)
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,025
Likes: 706
From: Santa Monica Mountains
2025 Lucid Air Grand Touring, 2022 F-150, 1926 Rolls-Royce SSG roadster
One justification MBUSA can attempt to use for the subscription is that allowing the electric motors and/or battery to operate at higher power may affect their useful lives or make them more likely to need warranty service. Thus, the $100 a month covers higher warranty costs. While that may be a decent argument, MBUSA would have to prove it and when the warranty has ended the subscription should end as well.
We'll need to see the paperwork in order to determine MBUSA's justification.
We'll need to see the paperwork in order to determine MBUSA's justification.
Junior Member
Joined: Aug 2022
Posts: 74
Likes: 13
EQS 450 4 matic sedan, Mercedes 550S
Please note ONLY the dual motor "EQS 450 4 MATIC" is subject to Performance upgrade.
This European source sheds some light on it
https://www.arenaev.com/exclusive_we...p-news-145.php
Apparently the "upgraded" EQS 450 4 MATIC is absolutely the same as EQS 500 4 MATIC, or to put it in another way 450 is "restricted power" version of 500 so that an "upgrade" can be offered.
500 is not available in the US but it is available in Europe and costs 3,000 euro more than 450. So instead of offering it in the US for $3,000 more MB wants to milk $1,200 per year in perpetuity. Not a bad deal I calculated it at 40% return on $3,000 loan over 10 years.
This European source sheds some light on it
https://www.arenaev.com/exclusive_we...p-news-145.php
Apparently the "upgraded" EQS 450 4 MATIC is absolutely the same as EQS 500 4 MATIC, or to put it in another way 450 is "restricted power" version of 500 so that an "upgrade" can be offered.
500 is not available in the US but it is available in Europe and costs 3,000 euro more than 450. So instead of offering it in the US for $3,000 more MB wants to milk $1,200 per year in perpetuity. Not a bad deal I calculated it at 40% return on $3,000 loan over 10 years.
Last edited by ivanvach; Nov 27, 2022 at 10:37 PM.
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,757
Likes: 957
From: Atlanta
2022 Mercedes EQS 580
Please note ONLY the dual motor "EQS 450 4 MATIC" is subject to Performance upgrade.
This European source sheds some light on it
https://www.arenaev.com/exclusive_we...p-news-145.php
Apparently the "upgraded" EQS 450 4 MATIC is absolutely the same as EQS 500 4 MATIC, or to put it in another way 450 is "restricted power" version of 500 so that an "upgrade" can be offered.
500 is not available in the US but it is available in Europe and costs 3,000 euro more than 450. So instead of offering it in the US for $3,000 more MB wants to milk $1,200 per year in perpetuity. Not a bad deal I calculated it at 40% return on $3,000 loan over 10 years.
This European source sheds some light on it
https://www.arenaev.com/exclusive_we...p-news-145.php
Apparently the "upgraded" EQS 450 4 MATIC is absolutely the same as EQS 500 4 MATIC, or to put it in another way 450 is "restricted power" version of 500 so that an "upgrade" can be offered.
500 is not available in the US but it is available in Europe and costs 3,000 euro more than 450. So instead of offering it in the US for $3,000 more MB wants to milk $1,200 per year in perpetuity. Not a bad deal I calculated it at 40% return on $3,000 loan over 10 years.
