EV Itch? Now is a Good Time to Scratch It.
#51
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Certainly not questioning the catastrophic nature of an EQS battery fire, should that happen. Just questioning the likelyhood of it happening unless the battery has been somehow damaged. Has that ever happened to an EQS that had not suffered prior damage? The other Tesla fires, seems I remember most of them suffering some kind of damage prior to the fires. Now, these cheap Chinese (and other) small EV bike/scooter/etc fires...yes, I would never buy one of them. Should damage occur to a mainstream EV....well now, that's a different story altogether, and extreme caution should be undertaken, including parking it away from structures until it can be rendered safe. I still love my EQS!.
https://insideevs.com/news/678343/me...eowner-garage/
#52
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I might be more inclined to the relative benefits of EV’s, if the climatistas would let our energy grid become 100% nuclear. Then we could come a lot closer to achieving carbon zero.
Until then, we aren’t reducing carbon, we are just relocating it.
We also need to be very careful of the drivers of policy positions.
Centralized planning works pitifully, and is worse as the population it serves grows.
It’s nearly impossible to legislate or force innovation.
Let necessity be the mother of invention.
Then, let the free market drive adoption.
Solar and wind are pipe dreams that have been top down managed, and haven’t yet broke even. Maybe innovation will make them more viable, but even after decades, they underperform expectations.
Until then, we aren’t reducing carbon, we are just relocating it.
We also need to be very careful of the drivers of policy positions.
Centralized planning works pitifully, and is worse as the population it serves grows.
It’s nearly impossible to legislate or force innovation.
Let necessity be the mother of invention.
Then, let the free market drive adoption.
Solar and wind are pipe dreams that have been top down managed, and haven’t yet broke even. Maybe innovation will make them more viable, but even after decades, they underperform expectations.
#53
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I might be more inclined to the relative benefits of EV’s, if the climatistas would let our energy grid become 100% nuclear. Then we could come a lot closer to achieving carbon zero.
Until then, we aren’t reducing carbon, we are just relocating it.
We also need to be very careful of the drivers of policy positions.
Centralized planning works pitifully, and is worse as the population it serves grows.
It’s nearly impossible to legislate or force innovation.
Let necessity be the mother of invention.
Then, let the free market drive adoption.
Solar and wind are pipe dreams that have been top down managed, and haven’t yet broke even. Maybe innovation will make them more viable, but even after decades, they underperform expectations.
Until then, we aren’t reducing carbon, we are just relocating it.
We also need to be very careful of the drivers of policy positions.
Centralized planning works pitifully, and is worse as the population it serves grows.
It’s nearly impossible to legislate or force innovation.
Let necessity be the mother of invention.
Then, let the free market drive adoption.
Solar and wind are pipe dreams that have been top down managed, and haven’t yet broke even. Maybe innovation will make them more viable, but even after decades, they underperform expectations.
Last edited by superswiss; 02-14-2024 at 05:28 PM.
#54
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Of course I am concerned about fire safety, I just don't think this is a dramatic threat...and no your sprinklers in your garage won't put out an ICE car fire...sprinklers on their own won't put out most house fires and most garages in this country don't have sprinklers to begin with. EVs are not more prone to fires than ICE vehicles, yes EV fires are more difficult to put out but fire departments have developed and are developing new techniques for dealing with them.
I can post lots of fires caused by laptops and iPhones and other things with batteries that have occured, where is your great concern and pearl clutching over that? This has nothing to do with legitimate concern, it has everything to do with trying to resist the proliferation of EVs.
![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/LfoNhQQKk5E/maxresdefault.jpg)
Last edited by SW20S; 02-14-2024 at 05:48 PM.
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c4004matic (02-14-2024)
#55
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LOL, don't break those pearls you're clutching.
Of course I am concerned about fire safety, I just don't think this is a dramatic threat...and no your sprinklers in your garage won't put out an ICE car fire...sprinklers on their own won't put out most house fires and most garages in this country don't have sprinklers to begin with. EVs are not more prone to fires than ICE vehicles, yes EV fires are more difficult to put out but fire departments have developed and are developing new techniques for dealing with them.
I can post lots of fires caused by laptops and iPhones and other things with batteries that have occured, where is your great concern and pearl clutching over that? This has nothing to do with legitimate concern, it has everything to do with trying to resist the proliferation of EVs.
![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/LfoNhQQKk5E/maxresdefault.jpg)
Of course I am concerned about fire safety, I just don't think this is a dramatic threat...and no your sprinklers in your garage won't put out an ICE car fire...sprinklers on their own won't put out most house fires and most garages in this country don't have sprinklers to begin with. EVs are not more prone to fires than ICE vehicles, yes EV fires are more difficult to put out but fire departments have developed and are developing new techniques for dealing with them.
I can post lots of fires caused by laptops and iPhones and other things with batteries that have occured, where is your great concern and pearl clutching over that? This has nothing to do with legitimate concern, it has everything to do with trying to resist the proliferation of EVs.
![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/LfoNhQQKk5E/maxresdefault.jpg)
#56
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LOL, don't break those pearls you're clutching.
Of course I am concerned about fire safety, I just don't think this is a dramatic threat...and no your sprinklers in your garage won't put out an ICE car fire...sprinklers on their own won't put out most house fires and most garages in this country don't have sprinklers to begin with. EVs are not more prone to fires than ICE vehicles, yes EV fires are more difficult to put out but fire departments have developed and are developing new techniques for dealing with them.
I can post lots of fires caused by laptops and iPhones and other things with batteries that have occured, where is your great concern and pearl clutching over that? This has nothing to do with legitimate concern, it has everything to do with trying to resist the proliferation of EVs.
Of course I am concerned about fire safety, I just don't think this is a dramatic threat...and no your sprinklers in your garage won't put out an ICE car fire...sprinklers on their own won't put out most house fires and most garages in this country don't have sprinklers to begin with. EVs are not more prone to fires than ICE vehicles, yes EV fires are more difficult to put out but fire departments have developed and are developing new techniques for dealing with them.
I can post lots of fires caused by laptops and iPhones and other things with batteries that have occured, where is your great concern and pearl clutching over that? This has nothing to do with legitimate concern, it has everything to do with trying to resist the proliferation of EVs.
#57
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This excess power supply doesn’t ring true.
In the last couple of years, Newsome told Californians, that the EV’s he was mandating, were going to put excess demands on supply of electricity.
So he told the granola state to not charge their EV’s.
Anyone see the irony there?
Then, Gavin chased so many 49ers, and Raiders, and Chargers out of the Golden State(not to mention Warrior fans) into states like the lone star state, the sunshine state.
Since then, on the hottest days of the summer, in Texas, the grid is so stressed, Texans are asked to reduce demand, and the state has to borrow supply from adjoining grids.
Also, trends are in place with data farms and other large demand clients, will further add to demand.
Nuclear is not without its downsides, but a lot of pieces are in motion to indicate it’s day has come.
If fusion ever becomes economically viable, it will present even less downside.
In the last couple of years, Newsome told Californians, that the EV’s he was mandating, were going to put excess demands on supply of electricity.
So he told the granola state to not charge their EV’s.
Anyone see the irony there?
Then, Gavin chased so many 49ers, and Raiders, and Chargers out of the Golden State(not to mention Warrior fans) into states like the lone star state, the sunshine state.
Since then, on the hottest days of the summer, in Texas, the grid is so stressed, Texans are asked to reduce demand, and the state has to borrow supply from adjoining grids.
Also, trends are in place with data farms and other large demand clients, will further add to demand.
Nuclear is not without its downsides, but a lot of pieces are in motion to indicate it’s day has come.
If fusion ever becomes economically viable, it will present even less downside.
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AFAIK, and I live in Texas, we do not borrow power from adjoining grids. ERCOT has been fairly innovative in using wind and solar to supplement power, and several gas powered stations have been brought back on line. I have a Generac 22kW generator, just in case, and have had it come on several times since purchase, during outages for various reasons. My point is that power generation is fairly constant. Whether I drive an ICE or EV, that doesn't change the amount of power Texas generates daily right now. So I am, indeed, putting less polutants into the atmosphere than I would if I was still driving my M550. Anyway, not going to argue that point any more. I do worry about the risk of EV batteries, and all other Li batteries. But not enough to not use them. If one is ever damaged, then I will try to take precautions (not parking in the garage, etc) as necessary. I trust that the folks making a living at production will be trying to improve safety, which would be clearly in their best interests monetarily. New battery tech is actively being researched and developed. No one wanted to fly airplanes early on...... Everything new has its naysayers and believers. I love my EQS!
#61
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AFAIK, and I live in Texas, we do not borrow power from adjoining grids. ERCOT has been fairly innovative in using wind and solar to supplement power, and several gas powered stations have been brought back on line. I have a Generac 22kW generator, just in case, and have had it come on several times since purchase, during outages for various reasons. My point is that power generation is fairly constant. Whether I drive an ICE or EV, that doesn't change the amount of power Texas generates daily right now. So I am, indeed, putting less polutants into the atmosphere than I would if I was still driving my M550. Anyway, not going to argue that point any more. I do worry about the risk of EV batteries, and all other Li batteries. But not enough to not use them. If one is ever damaged, then I will try to take precautions (not parking in the garage, etc) as necessary. I trust that the folks making a living at production will be trying to improve safety, which would be clearly in their best interests monetarily. New battery tech is actively being researched and developed. No one wanted to fly airplanes early on...... Everything new has its naysayers and believers. I love my EQS!
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Great Sector for EV Adoption?
Let’s also add that EVs are superior vehicles to ICE for most day to day use cases. Smoother, quieter and more conducive to a luxury driving experience. Plus home charging is a huge time saver.
Yes there are corner cases which favor ice like manual transmission mid engined sports cars for mountain runs, or Wagoneers for cross country trips, but those are not day to day use.
Yes there are corner cases which favor ice like manual transmission mid engined sports cars for mountain runs, or Wagoneers for cross country trips, but those are not day to day use.
#63
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The German cops will adopt the BMW i5 or EQE. ![smash](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smashfreak.gif)
I punctured a bloated laptop battery, and witnessed and exothermic reaction , aka lithium ion runaway. It was fascinating, and the experiment was done outside in a controlled area. With the EQS, I weight my risk and move forward. I punctured a couple of my bloated drone batteries and could use it for maintenance, short hovering test, and the likes. Disclaimer: don't do this at home. After 20+ years in the AEC, I am well aware of the AEC industry and its fire codes. At this point, the code committees aren't doing a damn thing different because of Li-ion runaways. They're waiting for a few more incidents that will claim more lives. If that doesn't happen, nothing changes.
So for the current EV market, take advantage of it, and hop on an EV if that fits your traveling needs. In the technology adoption cycle, the early adopters are ending, and the early majority is warming up. As Hlothery said, "I love my EQS." I'd like to add that until it cost me too much. Then I'll just hand off to someone else.
![smash](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smashfreak.gif)
I punctured a bloated laptop battery, and witnessed and exothermic reaction , aka lithium ion runaway. It was fascinating, and the experiment was done outside in a controlled area. With the EQS, I weight my risk and move forward. I punctured a couple of my bloated drone batteries and could use it for maintenance, short hovering test, and the likes. Disclaimer: don't do this at home. After 20+ years in the AEC, I am well aware of the AEC industry and its fire codes. At this point, the code committees aren't doing a damn thing different because of Li-ion runaways. They're waiting for a few more incidents that will claim more lives. If that doesn't happen, nothing changes.
So for the current EV market, take advantage of it, and hop on an EV if that fits your traveling needs. In the technology adoption cycle, the early adopters are ending, and the early majority is warming up. As Hlothery said, "I love my EQS." I'd like to add that until it cost me too much. Then I'll just hand off to someone else.
![Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
#64
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In fact, Texas can't borrow from other grids. The USA has three grids, the Eastern Interconnection, the Western Interconnection and then there's Texas by themselves. There's only redundancy within each interconnection. The Western grid can't send power to the Eastern grid and vise versa and neither gird can help out Texas, which is why Texas went down a couple of years ago during that very cold winter where pipes were freezing.
But still. Not the point. We do not have an excess supply of electrical power. We have barely enough a lot of times. And not enough less frequently. Typically it’s regional, and isolated. If it ever gets to the point where supply cannot meet demand, brownouts are a necessary consequence, and rolling blackouts might have to be put in place.
EV’s now have an adoption rate of approximately 3%, which might be close to saturation. Anything more will be taxing on an already stressed grid.
Another problem, as has been pointed out previously is the danger of EV car fires, and EV car wrecks. Scotty Kilmer has reported EV car collisions are worse than ICE because they are heavier, and often can out accelerate ICE vehicles. Also reported by IIHS NHTSA.
Someone also mentioned ecology. An EV has to put 60,000 miles on average, on the road miles before it breaks even with comparable ICE vehicles for carbon emissions. Until then, you are not part of the Co2 reduction solution.
I am looking for a reference, that refueling EV’s(by charging) costs the equivalent of $17.00/ gal, after you strip away all incentives, subsidies, and similar credits.
A lot would have to change for the better before I ever even considered buying an EV as a pure economical decision.
Even Stossel thinks that promoting EV’s is magical thinking.
Last edited by MB2timer; 02-18-2024 at 09:58 PM. Reason: Add JS
#65
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The equations gets really complex when you start talking about value of EV versus ICE. People on both sides like to pick the cherries. What I suggest is to take all things into consideration, but most importantly, does it fit your pocket book, and does it fit your travel needs/wants. If the answers is yes, go scratch that itch. At the end of the day, I see that EV is viable now due to the advancement of technology compared to previous EV starts.
If you care that much about the environment that makes you hesitate getting an EV, then you should take other measures too such as don't fly, bike, take public transportation to and from vacations, build a net-zero house, and don't drive to work. Ride your bike, not an e-bike. If you think they are still too expensive, fine, don't scratch. If you think it's still to dangerous, then you should also cut back on other battery powered electronics too. If all the hill billies have 6000 lbs big foot trucks on the road, then I'm not sitting around in a little Corolla without a roll cage.
If you care that much about the environment that makes you hesitate getting an EV, then you should take other measures too such as don't fly, bike, take public transportation to and from vacations, build a net-zero house, and don't drive to work. Ride your bike, not an e-bike. If you think they are still too expensive, fine, don't scratch. If you think it's still to dangerous, then you should also cut back on other battery powered electronics too. If all the hill billies have 6000 lbs big foot trucks on the road, then I'm not sitting around in a little Corolla without a roll cage.
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#66
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Does MB2Timer even have an EV? If not, what are you doing here? Agree with the above post about both sides cherry picking data points to make their case. I hate to admit it, but EV skeptics have a point about the carbon intensity to build the products--but as I mentioned previously, this is a recent quickly evolving technology (and no an EV from 1890 does not count since development went dormant for 100 years), and EV's do have superior potential to be a long term pollution solution, compared to an ICE vehicle which will always pollute (and to be clear is also carbon intensive to build). And why are EV haters so worried about climate impact when they are likely ignoring climate impact on most other areas of their life? But setting all that aside, has MB2Timer driven an EQS, or other high end EV? Unless you need to drive 300+ miles on a regular basis with bad charging infrastructure, I'll take an EV any day over and ICE car just because of the superior performance and quiet cabin. And I'm being generous about the highway driving--I've never found it to be a problem, even living in Iowa where there are few EV's. The other thing I find weird about people ******* EV's is the worry about value, and is it cheaper to operate an ICE vehicle. Okay, if you are on a tight budget making $35,000 a year, sure. But really, those of us buying a $140,000 car are really worried about if it costs more to charge on the highway vs. buying gas? Those of us in this club (sure, always exceptions) have wasted a ton of money on cars over the years, cycling in an out of super expensive cars. If money is your yardstick for which to value your auto life, you should be nowhere near a Germany luxury car--buy a Prius or Accord.
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Well then, i guess we'll just have to take the word of The Supreme Authority of Transportation (in the USA anyways), the NHTSA:
SOURCE: https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.go..._012012_v3.pdf
NHTSA does not believe that electric vehicles present a greater risk of post-crash fire than gasoline-powered vehicles.
#68
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I am looking for a reference, that refueling EV’s(by charging) costs the equivalent of $17.00/ gal, after you strip away all incentives, subsidies, and similar credits.
A lot would have to change for the better before I ever even considered buying an EV as a pure economical decision.
.
A lot would have to change for the better before I ever even considered buying an EV as a pure economical decision.
.
Second, why are you here?
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Who cares how much it costs to charge! I don't have to go to a gas station. I don't have to weave around rust bucket pickup trucks driven by cleatus and jethro and I dont have to get an impossible to wash off stinky liquid all over my hands. How much is that worth per gallon?
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Who cares how much it costs to charge! I don't have to go to a gas station. I don't have to weave around rust bucket pickup trucks driven by cleatus and jethro and I dont have to get an impossible to wash off stinky liquid all over my hands. How much is that worth per gallon?
#71
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Thats my hangup. Charging at home is a dream...that sounds like hell.
#72
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I agree. I really don't travel in my EQS, except for occasional trips to Waco, or day trips into the Hill Country. It is a dream to drive, but the charging uncertainty is real. If (I'm hoping!) the Tesla charging system opens up to us, at least here in Texas, there will be plenty of chargers, and the anxiety about that will ease. I'll probably start driving my car to see my kids in DFW. There is a supercharger in Waco, and the Bucees in Temple has 40 supercharger stations. There are a plethora of stations in DFW. So, here's hoping!
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Thats my thing. I can put up with the 30 minute stop, I just want plenty of options for where to stop.
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I agree. I really don't travel in my EQS, except for occasional trips to Waco, or day trips into the Hill Country. It is a dream to drive, but the charging uncertainty is real. If (I'm hoping!) the Tesla charging system opens up to us, at least here in Texas, there will be plenty of chargers, and the anxiety about that will ease. I'll probably start driving my car to see my kids in DFW. There is a supercharger in Waco, and the Bucees in Temple has 40 supercharger stations. There are a plethora of stations in DFW. So, here's hoping!
I watched an NBC report recently about Norway and how the EV adoption is going there and they showed charging problems are as prevalent at Tesla superchargers as anywhere else. The reporter who rented a BMW EV tried several times to charge at a supercharger, but it wouldn't work. She got error messages in the app and had to go elsewhere eventually. They have the same issues there as we have here unfortunately, which is surprising given the push to EVs and incentives the Norwegian government has put in place. They did say that it has gotten better overall, but non-working chargers is still a thing.
One of the biggest issues is also the Wild West of payment methods. Each charging provider essentially uses their own payment method, so you have to download an app for each provider to even be able to charge. That's annoying for tourists in rental cars as it often requires a local phone number to even sign up for an account. European tourists find the same issue in the USA trying to create an Electrify America account. In order to charge at a Tesla supercharger, you have to use the Tesla app. Plug and charge only works with Teslas. At least the EU has mandated that moving forward, credit card readers must be installed at new charging stations, so there's some movement on that front to at least have a universal way of paying as we've had at gas stations like forever. Haven't seen superchargers with a credit card reader yet, though.
Last edited by superswiss; 02-20-2024 at 08:09 PM.
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In the USA the Tesla app has worked flawlessly for me. I have used it several times at MagicDock Superchargers as well as the Tesla Universal Destination chargers. Initiating a session on the destination chargers requires aiming your smart phone camera at the QR image on the side of the charger.
I have always assumed that the Tesla/Mercedes-Benz agreement to use the Supercharger network would be a Plug and Charge proposition which would obviate the need for the Tesla app. A credit card reader would be one more point of failure.
I have always assumed that the Tesla/Mercedes-Benz agreement to use the Supercharger network would be a Plug and Charge proposition which would obviate the need for the Tesla app. A credit card reader would be one more point of failure.