Kubazzz

It seems that Mercedes-Benz is in really bad condition.
First of all - quality. It's not so bad but for sure it's not perfect. The legendary Mercedes precision is no more demonstrable.
JD Powers found 283 faults in 100 Mercedes vehicles.
ADAC also proves that M-B is not the best.
That causes that MB sales less cars than it could sale.

Second thing.
DaimlerChrysler as a company has a 47% drop in share price during last 7 years!
Meanwhile Toyota gained 43%, BMW 77%.
With slightly higher sales than Toyota [in USD] DC is worth 35% of Toyota's value.
Even more interesting is a fact that Chrysler brings profits while Mercedes generates heavy loss.

People say that the big defaulter is actual president of DaimlerChrysler Jürgen Schrimpp. One thing he ended up succesfully was a merge of Daimler-Benz and Chrysler.
Smart still can't bring back money that has been invested.
Holdings with Mitsubishi and Huyndai have also failed.
There are known cases about corruption in high management.
Mercedes is even suspected of selling 50 trucks to Saddam Husain

Now it's clear that the new president of DaimlerChrysler will be Dieter Zetsche, actaully he is responsible only for Chrysler and its resurrection.


What do You think about that?
Is Mercedes still on the top? Or maybe we will be all forced to drive Toyota/Lexus if we want a quality car?
Personally, I'm very confused - I love Mercedes with its heritage but I'm afraid that Mercedes is becoming too 'normal', something like only more expensive Volkswagen [worse than Audi].
Controversial styling, quality issue, lack of innovativeness. I mean, it's still good, but I've thought Mercedes should smash the rest more and more, while what we see is Mercedes decelerating.

I hope the new president fo DC [D. Zetsche] will make the Mercedes-Benz pacesetter again.
But is it still possible or it could be only worse?


[what's seen above is written by me. sorry for any possible misstatements]

Jakpro1

I believe it will come around. Who remembers the disposable American cars of the late 1970's and early 80's. My father bought a new Chevy Citation and the windshield fell off of it first week he had it. I vowed NEVER to buy American when I got older and it took quite awhile, but I did... and the quality wasn't all that bad. It was no Toyota.....had an old pickup that I sold with 250K trouble free miles. Corvettes, which were the joke of the sports car world (1978 with the whopping 175hp) ,are the awe of the industry now with the mighty z06.

Viacom has come out and said publicly the era of "monster conglomerates" is over and recently split the company. Benz needs to split from Chrysler ASAP and there are lots of rumors of rumblings about that ....just from the fact of Benz sagging.

I think with every year Benz has quality problems and is ranked near the bottom, it chips away at that rock solid image. So far it seems to be unphased....but eventually it will catch up with them....hope they get it together. It's not too late.

Honestly, I can't imagine Lexus becoming the new luxury car of choice, although I believe their rapidly increasing sales will surely get attention in the boardroom of Audi BMW and Benz.

Kubazzz

I don't like japanese cars, especially Toyota and Lexus. I appreciate them, their technology and all that stuff, but I don't like them.
However in my nightmares there's a vision of the New Order where Lexus is on top, then Audi, then BMW and the last - Mercedes. Complete inversion of the situation 10 years ago.
I'm afraid that people won't trust Mercedes if it won't do anything impressive. I hope at least new models like R class and especially new S class won't disgrace themselves.

benzmodz

In Australia where some of the entry level Toyotas are sold with OPTIONAL air-bags and OPTIONAL anti-lock brakes then it is no wonder they are winning volumes and winning market share.

The investors love winners and great performance. So much so that when they get their fat bonus cheque (check) from their annual dividends they go out and buy a Toyota .... heck no .... they buy a Mercedes.

These companies that develop these registers to find faults are subject to their own standards and their own evaluations. When they look at the faults in a Mercedes are they saying that the other cars didnt have those faults or are they saying that the other cars didnt have those options ?

Its easy to compare my dads car with mine and say his is more reliable. His has an ignition switch, gas pedal and a brake pedal and a radio. The gear shifter and interior lighting are special features in his car.

My car on the other hand has an option list as long as my arm and with each option added the chances of something being faulty increases exponentially as a power of 2. 2 to the power of N where N is the number of features.

So let's get to the level of rational equality. For the primary functions of a car you can not fault a Mercedes more often than another car. For the advanced and additional functions we know that half the time people dont even know how to operate them let alone some of the mechanics who dont even know how to diagnose them.

The presentation of these so called "facts" is limited to the underlying lack of understanding and one of the inherent risks of being associated with high technology.

There is no relationship between media perception and practical understanding and there is certainly no relationship between share prices and the value of things. Not when you consider that companies which create more waste dumps and landfill are worth more than companies which recycle.

C43AMG

Wake up, wake up.......Audi is so far back in BMW's rear view mirror I am surprised they made your list.However , I agree that Lexus is a up and coming force to take seriously.

Kubazzz

Benzmodz, You're right - It's always funny to see Toyota Starlet on the top of reliability ranking and a comment which says "Small Toyota better than legendary S class!!". But Toyota Starlet has engine, seats, lot of plastic and basic electric devices - thats all. What could possibly break down? Either nothing or something that immobilize the car
That's one possible point of view.
But, in the other hand, BMW, Audi, Lexus - they don't have so many quality issues. I've seen many comments about MB, not only on this forum, from people who were disappointed. Rattling interior elements, leaky body [especially in coupes], BAS and SBC problems, disintegrating body, blowing-up engines. So it's not only about minor faults of on-board gadgets.
Ok, nobody's perfect, but I think Mercedes is walking on the edge.

I've been using for a long time only few Mercedes cars - two W123 and one W210. W123 was invincible. One had more than 400 000 km and no major malfunction had occured. W210 was great too though it wasn't well equiped.

mleskovar

Of course MB can return to days of past glory. When the Japanese cars were first introduced the quality was terrible. In fact, all Japanese products had poor engineering, materials, assembly, etc. Now Japanese products are considered some of the finest available. The question is not 'can' MB do the same, but 'will'. Technology is now a commodity and no longer the strongest selling point of cars. It will take MB more than our lifetimes to admit they have lost the edge in quality....just my .02 They're still blaming their parts suppliers!!

Dvinn

I don't know...sounds like just sour grapes from compeitiors and JD. Just look at JD Powers magazine and what ad do you see? A bounch of Ford truck ads showing there, and not suprisingly Ford got picked No 1 rating on serveral of their trucks in JD.

What is the single most important thing when it comes to measuring how a company is doing? SALES. According to the sales figures MB is still the king of the hill. As a matter of fact, E class sales for August is 5,011 units (and this is with a 10-20k premium over the Japanese cars), it easily beat the 5 series of 4,300 unit and trumps Lexus GS sales of only 3,300 unit. Infiniti and Acura does not even show up on the radar with their sub 2,000 unit sales.

Seems like the more reliable and cheaper the car is the less they sold.


Mercedes-Benz USA Records Highest August Sales Record


MONTVALE, N.J., Sept. 1 /PRNewswire/ -- Mercedes-Benz USA (MBUSA) today
reported its highest August on record with sales of 19,267 new vehicles, an
increase of 7.1 percent over last August, bringing the year-to-date sales
total to 138,692 vehicles.
The new 2006 M-Class continued its strong momentum in the market, with a
sales increase of 51 percent over August 2004. The month was also marked by a
significant jump in SLK-Class sales, which increased 107.5 percent over August
2004. Highlights for the month further included a 9.1 percent sales increase
for the E-Class and gains for the SL-Class, which is up 15.1 percent over
August 2004.
Separately, the Mercedes-Benz Certified Pre-Owned vehicle program reported
August sales of 3,660 units, bringing the year-to-date total to 30,640.
In 2004, MBUSA achieved its eleventh consecutive year of sales growth by
setting the highest sales volume in its history with 221,610 new vehicle sales
and expects to continue the momentum with another record year of sales in
2005. Headquartered in Montvale, N.J., MBUSA is responsible for the sales,
marketing and service of all Mercedes-Benz products in the United States.
More information on MBUSA and its products can be found on the Internet at
http://www.mbusa.com .

gaiex

With this story, I remenbered when my father bougth in 93 a W202 C220 he lost the rigth front turn signal (all the part, not only the cover!), when cruising at highway, we only saw something flying from in front of the car, LOL :p
But I think mercedes cars are getting better and better improvments in these last years...

JCHENRYARCH

My 2000 A8L has better interior quality and design than any S class or other prior to 2003 models IMHO. I am not sure of newer models, but I would put Audi on par.
I have an S600, 97 and BMW 740il.
Interesting to compare the three.
Audi is faster than the 740il, but because of all wheel drive, they put less metal into door panels so bimmer feels more solid.
S600 has had continual maintenance issues.
Audi beats Mercedes in build quality, interior styling against both.

MDCLS

I was beginning to come around to Audi until they introduced the hideous mouths on their cars. Why did they ruin agood thing? Just one person's humble opinion here, but Audi ruined an outherwise understated and elegant look.
So far our extended familie's new '06 and 05' MB cars have been troublefree.
I'm a 1st time owner and very satisified.
Being an optimist here but I think MB big problems are behind them,that is if they can stop the bleeding from Smart.

JCHENRYARCH

Nice CLS btw!
I have never bought a brand new Benz, and while this will happen in the near future I am sure, I want to steer away from the dreaded current series to 05. Buying new under warranty means you can sleep at night quite well. A good dealer will keep you happy. The majority of posts on these forums are for those with older cars who are trying to keep them together and there is some rationalization against the newer models, but everyone seems to be complaining and the statistics prove it.
But, the Benz mystique carries on and I bet with the models you have now, that build quality has turned around.
I did peek into an E55AMG the other day and was impressed. Just do not like the current S series and have seen photos of the new sheetmetal for the next series which looks like a Frankenstein hatch job: Ford Focus meets Maybach with a nod to the submarine.
CLS and CL are their best designed current cars and probably beats the styling out of previous models of the last 20 years. (I am open to criticism folks!)

Ted Baldwin

.............I am not sure how this makes financial sense for Benz, since it is the Chrysler division that is making money at the moment. The Benz division is loosing money and it seems that, from a financial point of view, the merger between Benz and Chrysler was a wise financial move for Benz. Without Chrusler at the moment, Benz will be in serious bad shape financially. As mentioned in an earlier post, I think the head of the Chrysler division is being picked to head the enter Daimler/Chrysler.

Ted

Jakpro1

Benz still number one in luxury sales August and Sept....C is ahead of 3 Series among other class matchups....sales numbers say it all.....so far people are buying even though we are having problems.

CE750

I too almost bought the new A6, love the interiors, build quality, styling (interior), but I couldn't see past that pedestrian friendly nose! The A6 is actually quite an impressive car against the W211.. I rank Audi ahead of BMW, and MB 1st... Lexus ranks ahead of Cadillac, but well behind the Germans for me.

ruykava

ADAC reliability survey put Mercedes FIRST in several categories, kubazz. as for JD Powers, all they do is survey how much people like their cars and that's got little to do with reliability. as for the IQS, it means very little as well - my proton, ranked third-place in Asia Pacific by IQS, suffered a steering failure at 1 year, brake failure soon after, and broken interior parts by the time i sold it, taking a substantial loss.

i've 2 mercs currently and they're all running fine - never had a mechanical problem, never did a recall; although there's an intermittent problem with the vacuum doors on the S :p then again, how many cars out there have vacuum doors? the number of SBC failures is hugely exaggerated and there have been NO reports of BAS failures.

there was a period where Merc was slipping in quality, but they've corrected it by and large. now merc just need to convince others of that. BMW, VW, and Audi may occassionally be better built (though i can't name any instances except for Audi) but there is absolutely no evidence that they are more reliable - in fact Audi has a reputation for being unreliable in Europe (at least, that's what my friends told me).

CE750: heh, i almost bought an A6 as well, but conversely it was the interior that turned me off - cold and clinical without any artistry IMO. oh, and the car i was sitting in had loose switches as well, which detracted from what i thought should be the biggest selling point - interior quality. shows how one bad car could harm your confidence in the whole marquee, as Merc undoubtedly found out. but i do like that car - something in me says it's better for me than the 5. but who cares, i've already got the W211

Kubazzz

>ruykava
You're maybe right. I've yet mentioned that JD Powers is not an ultimate oracle and the ultra high note of Lexus comes from satisfied customers

About Audi - in Europe, Audi is still regonized as a little bit less prestigious than Mercedes-Benz or BMW, but in the other hand people say Audis are most reliable and best built. Though the differenes are barely noticable and everyone has his own favorite from The Big Trio [Audi, BMW, MB - without Lexus ]

JCHENRYARCH

I drove the 2004 Audi A8L and it seemed a flimsy car in terms of weight and substance compared to the S series.
Too much plastic and chrome inside, too busy of a dash.
I was not impressed with mechanicals.
BUT, I bought a 2000 A8L, older series, and am completely satisfied.
Engine has a kick that the 7 BMW series lacks and also the S500. It seems like a lighter and more sprinty kind of car than the heavy weight Benz and BMW.
I love the interior. It is really awesome.
I suppose I will be in a newer Benz one day, but not yet....

CE750

Interesting, so you say the Lexus is not very popular in Europe? I had heard that it was making inroads against MB and BMW... not true?

Also, do some polish hate to buy German cars due to the war, or is that all behind them now?

ruykava

about Lexus making inroads in europe: i think the RX330 is doing quite well, i see a lot of them around at least in the UK. haven't seen a new GS yet although there were a lot, and i mean A LOT, of them in singapore.

kubazz: from what i understand, most people think Audi is well-built; but not very reliable. still, as usual, their perceptions could be wrong

gaiex

Lexus??? I don't see 1 lexus in years just kidding, 6 months, hehehe, but Lexus IS300 and IS400 its like a big toyota corolla here
Lexus its not a popular brand in Europe, everyone prefers the german cars

Kubazzz

Yes, Lexus isn't popular in Europe. Though recent models like RX330 and new GS areslightly changing this situation. But still Lexus is faaaar behind BMW, MB and Audi, and probably even Volvo and Saab.

WWII is now only the part of history. Nobody, who's sane, refuse to buy german car due to war reminiscences Some people in Poland are very loyal to particular manufacturers Some will never buy german car because they worhsip Toyota/Subaru/Nissan/Mazda, some will buy only french or italian cars [Renault, Peugeot, Renault; FIAT, Alfa Romeo]. These two groups of customers like to offence and degrade german cars and their owners
But generally german cars are considered to be very good cars. I won't say 'the best' because toyota fans would put me down

JCHENRYARCH

Interesting to note that FPorsche worked for Mercedes at one time.
He was a racing car designer originally and won Hitler's favor to build an immense auto manufacturing plant to build the Volkswagen.
Thousands of Germans kept records of their monthly deposits to pay for the car, but hardly any were built or delivered as the plant went into war production when finished. The plant, like many others, had forced foreign labor. They built tanks finally but Porsche's designs were too cumbersome.
How did Mercedes figure into the war effort? Most of Hitler's personal cars were of this marque.

Kubazzz

No, it's more like Audi is well built, reliable but it's only an Audi. Same as Lexus. Very good car but without heritage of the brand. Hitler was driving MB, not Audi [wich didn't even existed] It's nice when i look at the photo taken in 1936 and i can see my Grandfather, his driver and Mercedes-Benz automobile

CE750

I posted on another thread on this, I too saw the History Channel show.. One sided history in many ways, but that's to be expected.. Good shows overall.


Interesting that the Air cooled engine was developed while FP was at diamler..