American Mercedes
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From: oregon
2011 C300
Originally Posted by ricky.agrawal
Damn straight, you said it perfectly.
If people keep thinking that Mercedes is great and the end all be all, then they (the management of the company) have no will to improve. That's why Lexus is a great company. Not because they offer relatively great products, but because they offer great competition. That's why BMW is a great company, not because they offer relatively great products, but because they offer competition.
Oh, free markets rock.
If people keep thinking that Mercedes is great and the end all be all, then they (the management of the company) have no will to improve. That's why Lexus is a great company. Not because they offer relatively great products, but because they offer great competition. That's why BMW is a great company, not because they offer relatively great products, but because they offer competition.
Oh, free markets rock.
.
..Well said to both of you! My personal opinion is that Mercedes needs to go back to Germany, and focus on being Mercedes, and show the rest of the world that they can in fact be the best cars, as they always have been. Put the greed aside, and build cars.
...I buy Mercedes because I want a good, high quality German car. There are qualities offered by these cars that cannot be found in any other car. Unfortunately things are different, as mentioned earlier. I hope I dont ever see this manufacturer or any other quality German car become just another boring people mover. If I wanted vanilla, I'd buy a toyota camry. When I want good wine, I go to the winery, and I expect to find it.
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From: oregon
2011 C300
Originally Posted by Kubazzz
damn, I've posted similar thread and there is sooo 'not-many' replies
..Well thank you for yours..I think many people drive an image, others drive to enjoy the machine. Those that drive for the image probably dont care about this topic.
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Posts: 266
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From: Poland
i think that the JD Powers ratings are worthless.
Look at this: http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/9697/rate7ug.jpg
It seems that the S-Class is nothing but a wrecked piece of junk while the LS is an outstanding ultimate space-shuttle and provides orgasmic feelings...
I think it's a matter of expectations - Lexus is still considered as an upgraded Toyota and Mercedes has to prove his legend all the time.
Ok, maybe Toyota builds good cars, especially with Lexus badge, but I don't think these cars can really beat Mercedes. What's the top for Lexus is the bottom for Mercedes - I think this is the reason why we all seize on this "Big Mercedes-Benz Breakdown".
BTW - look at the other German brands - Audi and BMW.
I can't believe that!
I would buy Lexus only if all german factories were destroyed
First MB, than BMW, than Audi, than maybe Lexus.
Even if the LS could do a nice blow-job i wouldn't buy it instead of german car :p Lexus doesn't have any spirit.
But I can agree that there's nothing wrong about improving quality. I think the new Daimler-Chrysler chairman will solve most of the problems.
Look at this: http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/9697/rate7ug.jpg
It seems that the S-Class is nothing but a wrecked piece of junk while the LS is an outstanding ultimate space-shuttle and provides orgasmic feelings...
I think it's a matter of expectations - Lexus is still considered as an upgraded Toyota and Mercedes has to prove his legend all the time.
Ok, maybe Toyota builds good cars, especially with Lexus badge, but I don't think these cars can really beat Mercedes. What's the top for Lexus is the bottom for Mercedes - I think this is the reason why we all seize on this "Big Mercedes-Benz Breakdown".
BTW - look at the other German brands - Audi and BMW.
I can't believe that!
I would buy Lexus only if all german factories were destroyed
First MB, than BMW, than Audi, than maybe Lexus.
Even if the LS could do a nice blow-job i wouldn't buy it instead of german car :p Lexus doesn't have any spirit.
But I can agree that there's nothing wrong about improving quality. I think the new Daimler-Chrysler chairman will solve most of the problems.
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Originally Posted by Kubazzz
i think that the JD Powers ratings are worthless.
Look at this: http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/9697/rate7ug.jpg
It seems that the S-Class is nothing but a wrecked piece of junk while the LS is an outstanding ultimate space-shuttle and provides orgasmic feelings...
I think it's a matter of expectations - Lexus is still considered as an upgraded Toyota and Mercedes has to prove his legend all the time.
Ok, maybe Toyota builds good cars, especially with Lexus badge, but I don't think these cars can really beat Mercedes. What's the top for Lexus is the bottom for Mercedes - I think this is the reason why we all seize on this "Big Mercedes-Benz Breakdown".
BTW - look at the other German brands - Audi and BMW.
I can't believe that!
I would buy Lexus only if all german factories were destroyed
First MB, than BMW, than Audi, than maybe Lexus.
Even if the LS could do a nice blow-job i wouldn't buy it instead of german car :p Lexus doesn't have any spirit.
But I can agree that there's nothing wrong about improving quality. I think the new Daimler-Chrysler chairman will solve most of the problems.
Look at this: http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/9697/rate7ug.jpg
It seems that the S-Class is nothing but a wrecked piece of junk while the LS is an outstanding ultimate space-shuttle and provides orgasmic feelings...
I think it's a matter of expectations - Lexus is still considered as an upgraded Toyota and Mercedes has to prove his legend all the time.
Ok, maybe Toyota builds good cars, especially with Lexus badge, but I don't think these cars can really beat Mercedes. What's the top for Lexus is the bottom for Mercedes - I think this is the reason why we all seize on this "Big Mercedes-Benz Breakdown".
BTW - look at the other German brands - Audi and BMW.
I can't believe that!
I would buy Lexus only if all german factories were destroyed
First MB, than BMW, than Audi, than maybe Lexus.
Even if the LS could do a nice blow-job i wouldn't buy it instead of german car :p Lexus doesn't have any spirit.
But I can agree that there's nothing wrong about improving quality. I think the new Daimler-Chrysler chairman will solve most of the problems.
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 266
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From: Poland
Originally Posted by JDM
.
.
..Well said to both of you! My personal opinion is that Mercedes needs to go back to Germany, and focus on being Mercedes, and show the rest of the world that they can in fact be the best cars, as they always have been. Put the greed aside, and build cars.
...I buy Mercedes because I want a good, high quality German car. There are qualities offered by these cars that cannot be found in any other car. Unfortunately things are different, as mentioned earlier. I hope I dont ever see this manufacturer or any other quality German car become just another boring people mover. If I wanted vanilla, I'd buy a toyota camry. When I want good wine, I go to the winery, and I expect to find it.
.
..Well said to both of you! My personal opinion is that Mercedes needs to go back to Germany, and focus on being Mercedes, and show the rest of the world that they can in fact be the best cars, as they always have been. Put the greed aside, and build cars.
...I buy Mercedes because I want a good, high quality German car. There are qualities offered by these cars that cannot be found in any other car. Unfortunately things are different, as mentioned earlier. I hope I dont ever see this manufacturer or any other quality German car become just another boring people mover. If I wanted vanilla, I'd buy a toyota camry. When I want good wine, I go to the winery, and I expect to find it.
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From: FL410
'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
MBs biggest problem is their Nickel and Dime MBUSA subsidiary that makes a sunroof and leather seats an option on a $51700 E class... That is MB's biggest problem, and WHY people are buying Lexus, and Acura... Acura RL has NO, repeat, NO options.... for $49K sticker!
That is MB's problem.. not a handful of electronic bugs.. common people...
That is MB's problem.. not a handful of electronic bugs.. common people...
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From: Poland
Originally Posted by ricky.agrawal
Blind loyalty will really bite you in the ***. Similair to this!
You drive a BMW, don't You?
I'm not blind, I CAN see the problem but I think that neither Mercedes nor BMW suck. This would be an outrage! Those are still good vehicles, plus they have their own spirits.
Last edited by Kubazzz; Sep 22, 2005 at 09:03 PM.
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Out Of Control!!
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,161
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From: Obama Land
K Car
I think the whole idea of a German, Japanese, American... car is old thinking. What makes a German car German? Where it's built? Where the company is located? Where the parts are made? Who owns the company?
Take a look at a Ford Taurus for instance. Here is a typical "American" car. However, the Honda Accord has more parts made in the USA than the Taurus.
Personally, I don't care where the car is made. What matters is the company's reputation, and the quality and value of the product.
Take a look at a Ford Taurus for instance. Here is a typical "American" car. However, the Honda Accord has more parts made in the USA than the Taurus.
Personally, I don't care where the car is made. What matters is the company's reputation, and the quality and value of the product.
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From: FL410
'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by revstriker
I think the whole idea of a German, Japanese, American... car is old thinking. What makes a German car German? Where it's built? Where the company is located? Where the parts are made? Who owns the company?
Take a look at a Ford Taurus for instance. Here is a typical "American" car. However, the Honda Accord has more parts made in the USA than the Taurus.
Personally, I don't care where the car is made. What matters is the company's reputation, and the quality and value of the product.
Take a look at a Ford Taurus for instance. Here is a typical "American" car. However, the Honda Accord has more parts made in the USA than the Taurus.
Personally, I don't care where the car is made. What matters is the company's reputation, and the quality and value of the product.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 732
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From: oregon
2011 C300
Originally Posted by ricky.agrawal
.
...I think there's more truth to this than not..Look at some of the crap that manufacturers put out these days, and people buy it! Like little milk cartons, or transformers...or half-a-cars. And to think people can stand there on the lot and say.."yeah, I'll but that", "I want to be seen by everybody driving that.."..I wish I had "bad taste award" bumper stickers to hand out....
Yeah I'm
...sorry.
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From: oregon
2011 C300
Originally Posted by CE750
times HAVE changed, and so have ways... but I don't think for the better. An MB from the 30's or even 70's was far and above a better car than just about any other production care made... is that as much the case today? Some would argue not.. and that in and of itself is a sad statement on the way things are done today.
.
.exactly. It's more about selling a product to as many people as possible, and less about having an exclusive mark.
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From: oregon
2011 C300
Originally Posted by Kubazzz
in my thread [previously mentioned] i've said what it's all about - bad management - corruption and incompetence. Mercedes-Benz is not a chinese toy producer but it seems that some people from the management have thought so.
.
..I have no doubt its in the business end. Its all about business now. Like I said, Greeed. Greed replaces many things. Craftsmanship comes from passion, not greed.
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From: Scottsdale, Arizonai
'85 190E 2.3-16 '99 C280 '11 GLK350
Future E-Class owners might be interested in this . . . 2009, only 4 years to go.
FRANKFURT (Reuters) - DaimlerChrysler will make all the different versions of its next-generation Mercedes-Benz E-Class cars at its own manufacturing facilities, the German-American carmaker said on Wednesday.
"The decision has been made to produce all the variants in-house," a company spokesman said.
Austrian contract car builder Magna Steyr, a unit of Magna International Inc, makes the four-wheel-drive version of the E-Class under license now. Its annual output of the model is around 20,000 cars.
The completely redesigned E-Class is due for launch in 2009 as a sedan, with a four-wheel-drive version to follow, probably early in 2010, the spokesman said.
FRANKFURT (Reuters) - DaimlerChrysler will make all the different versions of its next-generation Mercedes-Benz E-Class cars at its own manufacturing facilities, the German-American carmaker said on Wednesday.
"The decision has been made to produce all the variants in-house," a company spokesman said.
Austrian contract car builder Magna Steyr, a unit of Magna International Inc, makes the four-wheel-drive version of the E-Class under license now. Its annual output of the model is around 20,000 cars.
The completely redesigned E-Class is due for launch in 2009 as a sedan, with a four-wheel-drive version to follow, probably early in 2010, the spokesman said.
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From: Albuquerque
'10 CL550, '12 GL550
Engineering is engineering.
Engineering includes the specifications for how assembly is performed and how assembly is inspected.
Where assembly happens is meaningless.
Engineering includes the specifications for how assembly is performed and how assembly is inspected.
Where assembly happens is meaningless.
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From: FL410
'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by lkchris
Engineering is engineering.
Engineering includes the specifications for how assembly is performed and how assembly is inspected.
Where assembly happens is meaningless.
Engineering includes the specifications for how assembly is performed and how assembly is inspected.
Where assembly happens is meaningless.
Workmanship is as much a part of a culture as cuisne... A german worker has a totally different understanding of what is acceptable workmanship from a Chinese worker... it would take generations to change it. I had a minority share in a company that did chinese manufacturing for a short period of time requiring hand assembly and semi-skilled workers. The failure rate was better than 50% before we relocated manufacturing back to the US. And this was simply electrical wiring harnesses for diesel trucks. So the reality is in terms of labor, you get what you pay for!
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From: Scottsdale, Arizonai
'85 190E 2.3-16 '99 C280 '11 GLK350
Originally Posted by lkchris
Engineering is engineering.
Engineering includes the specifications for how assembly is performed and how assembly is inspected.
Where assembly happens is meaningless.
Engineering includes the specifications for how assembly is performed and how assembly is inspected.
Where assembly happens is meaningless.
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Posts: 4,968
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From: FL410
'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by MTI
Don't try that logic with the early M-Class owners . . . they were ready to storm the Alabama production site with torches and pitchforks.
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From: Nuevo México
2005 C230K Sport Sedan, 6 speed manual
Originally Posted by CE750
MBs biggest problem is their Nickel and Dime MBUSA subsidiary that makes a sunroof and leather seats an option on a $51700 E class... That is MB's biggest problem, and WHY people are buying Lexus, and Acura... Acura RL has NO, repeat, NO options.... for $49K sticker!
That is MB's problem.. not a handful of electronic bugs.. common people...
That is MB's problem.. not a handful of electronic bugs.. common people...
I doubt I would ever buy a Lexus or Acura. They are appealing to a different customer.
On the original topic. It is probably true the engineering in a car is more important than the location of the assembly plant. Nonetheless, I want my car to say "Made in Germany". It is simply my preference.
Last edited by alpinweiss; Sep 27, 2005 at 01:52 AM.
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300ce
........lets say the engine of your "truly german" car is handcrafted in Germany by an immigrant from Hungary who's supervisor is from Poland. Will you desire the car any less? If not, then what if that same Hungarian and that same Polish supervisor, did the Job in Hungary with the same materials? Does this change things for you? The world is changing, and contrary to all the fuss, it is changing for the better. What if the CEO of your German car company is West African? Is your car no longer a German car? Wait, are Chrysler's german cars or not? If yes, why. If not why not?
Ted
Ted
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From: FL410
'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by Ted Baldwin
........lets say the engine of your "truly german" car is handcrafted in Germany by an immigrant from Hungary who's supervisor is from Poland. Will you desire the car any less? If not, then what if that same Hungarian and that same Polish supervisor, did the Job in Hungary with the same materials? Does this change things for you? The world is changing, and contrary to all the fuss, it is changing for the better. What if the CEO of your German car company is West African? Is your car no longer a German car? Wait, are Chrysler's german cars or not? If yes, why. If not why not?
Ted
Ted
When my MB is made outside of Germany.. is when I buy another brand.
MY Volvo even had to be "Made in Sweden"
Maybe I'm a bit ****, maybe I just want to get what I'm paying for.
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From: Nuevo México
2005 C230K Sport Sedan, 6 speed manual
Here are a couple of examples that come to my mind:
When Volkswagen began building cars in the U.S. (Pennsylvania) there were some initial quality issues with those cars. You could park an American VW and a German VW beside each other, and most car experts would choose the German built car. The differences were subtle, yet noticeable. I realize this is old news (1980's).
Mercedes and its American made ML series had initial quality issues. Enough said.
Continental Tire has plants both in the US and in Germany. The US versions have had more quality problems than the German versions.
It may be hard to quantify exactly why, but "Made in Germany" is still what I prefer. Yes, all of us pay a premium for that label.
When Volkswagen began building cars in the U.S. (Pennsylvania) there were some initial quality issues with those cars. You could park an American VW and a German VW beside each other, and most car experts would choose the German built car. The differences were subtle, yet noticeable. I realize this is old news (1980's).
Mercedes and its American made ML series had initial quality issues. Enough said.
Continental Tire has plants both in the US and in Germany. The US versions have had more quality problems than the German versions.
It may be hard to quantify exactly why, but "Made in Germany" is still what I prefer. Yes, all of us pay a premium for that label.
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300ce
It's German when it's "Made in Germany" where the German culture and obsession for perfection and fit and finish is applied to the Polish workers an Hungarian supervisors.. et al.
Ted
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From: FL410
'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by Ted Baldwin
................actually your response makes the point that it is the obsession for perfection and fit and finish you desire. Where we defer is the idea that such a trait is uniquely German. If this were true, then what happened to Robert Bosch, the company responsible for the the electronic gremlins that plague today's mercedes benz automobiles? Have they given up their German citizenship?
Ted
Ted
