JDM

If I buy a German car, I want it to come from Germany. If I buy a Ford, I want it to come from the US. If I buy a Honda, I want it to come from ...where ever honda's come from..What do all you enthusiasts think?

vraa

I think that's a bit foolish.
I don't care frankly where the car is from, I care about how it's made, and if it works in the end.

Globalization is a good thing, it can mean NOTHING but lower prices inevitably in the end, and better products.

JDM

..I agree with the lower prices bit, but better products? Would a Porsche 911 from Michigan truly be a Porsche 911? Maybe Im being too romantic about the whole thing, but heritage has always been an important part of automobile manufacturing...or so I thought. Maybe it's just me, but buying a car from another country is like buying a piece of that country..Like bring back a replica of the pyramid after an Egyptian vacation....it would suck to see "made in Taiwan" on the bottom of it when I got home..

vraa

Sorry, I was a bit rash when I said it would be foolish.

However, what if quality control in Michigan was stricter because it would be a newer plant under tighter management?

I'm thinking of something like the X5. Although engineered in Germany, it holds up better than a bunch of other cars, but it's made in North Carolina?

Or what about the Mazda MX-5? The design for it was actually selected out of a bunch of studios around the world. It just helps offer more options and what not

JDM

.
.
.Well I did ask for opinions,
Anyway, You have very valid points, and theres no doubt the quality could be more or even less....I've just always been fascinated with imports, the heritage of German cars, and feel they should stay German. I guess some of these cars are desighned and built in the US, for US customers..I cannot help but ask, is it really a Mercedes?

MTI

I guess we know who won't be buying an M or R Class.

CE750

AMEN BROTHER! I've been saying this for months.. I also model German Model Trains... and some are apparently now being made outside German, and even in China! So I avoid those like the plague.

My this is this... If I'm paying MB prices for a car, I expect a large part of that price is well paid, professional German labor...

Same for a Honda.. (not that I buy them) but it should be made in Japan..

Don't ask me to justify why I feel that way.. I JUST DO.

CE750

Lets see if your still singing that tune when your future employer ships your job to China or India cause they'll do it for 1/4 the price..

Be careful what you wish for, you may just get it.

MTI

The "myth" of German superiority in luxury craftsmanship has been taking a beating in survey results and recalls. No automobile maker is immune, but it obviously didn't take more than half a generation for the Japanese to match and pass their older German competition.

Kubazzz

In Europe, most of the Hondas come from UK

CE750

German craftsmanship isn't a myth, it's still superior to Japanese and most others.. even JD Power states so in their survey.. it's the electronics that are the problem.. this more of an EE issue, than an issue of workmanship.

vraa

Um, employer?
I'd be the one sourcing jobs from my 'homeland' to replace inefficent workers here.

MTI

As to the electronics issue . . . would that be the problems with parts from Robert Bosch GmbH that caused major production problems for Daimler, Volvo and BMW earlier this year?

Are you also saying that brands like luxury Japanese brands like Lexus, Infiniti, Accura haven't been kicking Mercedes' butt in sales and customer satisfaction for the past several years . . . requiring Daimler to "re-focus" on quality. Eckhard Cordes and the worldwide motoring press knows all about it.

Google "Mercedes Quality" and see what you get.

vraa

German craftmanship is better than Japanese, because it's by man.
The Japanese use robots, that's why their stuff is perfect.

CE750

A) Robert Bosch is behind a lot of this mess...

B) Quality in what sense? Reliability, like a Honda Civic? Yes.. the Japs are kicking ***... Quality in the form of fine materials, interiors, and chassis? -- go back and re-read JD Powers results and ask that question again.

CE750

Unless you own your own company, as I do... you'll always have someone looking to out source you... so watch your back.

Remember... be careful what you wish for.

vraa

Can you link me what survey you are talking about?

Because honestly, I think when you're comparing a Honda Civic, or say a C230, the Civic is going to trump the C230.

If you compare a LS430 to a S500, same situation.

In almost every sense, Mercedes is really losing it. Heck look at the W211 forums about the rear rotors. Decontenting. Sad, truly sad.

This is why engineers rock and those in marketing don't.

MTI

Mercedes has been using robotic manufacturing and assembly for years.

They were certainly in use during the construction of the W201 and W124s in the 80's.

vraa

They are, it was a joke.
I really should've used smileys in that post.

CE750

MB "Quality" has improved greatly (read reliability):
http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=7086

AND

Go here and compare the E class to the ES or the S class to the LS... note the build quality... the MB suffers nothing in that area.. and I would argue is superior.

http://www.jdpower.com/cc/auto/ratin...rdsResults.jsp

vraa

They've improved, but they have a LOT to go.

I just compared the SClass (2005) to the LS (2005)

The S-Class has fewer stars in EVERYTHING except Style, where it's even.

I wouldn't compare the E to the ES, because neither of them interest me.

CE750

Well, they interest me, since I drive an E.. and the E does better in this case... so maybe the S falls a bit short, but the E doesn't.. bottom line.. Lexus is NOT smoking MB in quality in this instance.

vraa

Absolutley right, I guess it does depend on the car.

Plus, after a full factory replacement... the car should be doing well!

MTI

As we are all Mercedes-Benz enthusiasts on this forum, it has been difficult to see the brand's reputation for excellence and prestige continually fall, however for loyal consumers and management to ignore the problem is a long way from solving it. The luxury automobile market is not what it once was and Daimler-Chrysler can no longer bank on the reputation of Mercedes alone, it has to deliver products that buyers want; that are worth the price it takes to make them; and will stand behind those products thru excellent after sales service.

vraa

Damn straight, you said it perfectly.

If people keep thinking that Mercedes is great and the end all be all, then they (the management of the company) have no will to improve. That's why Lexus is a great company. Not because they offer relatively great products, but because they offer great competition. That's why BMW is a great company, not because they offer relatively great products, but because they offer competition.

Oh, free markets rock.