Top 10: greatest mercedes ever
10-22-2006, 01:27 PM
#2
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: NY/NJ
Posts: 2,116
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
2012 W212 E350 Bluetec
Interesting article....however, the selection of the 190E makes me question just how much this guy knows about Mercedes Benzes and their proud history.
Only a passing mention of the W116 450SEL (and the legendary 6.9) and none of the W124 E-class (and the Porsche-collaborated 500E)? Please....
Only a passing mention of the W116 450SEL (and the legendary 6.9) and none of the W124 E-class (and the Porsche-collaborated 500E)? Please....
10-24-2006, 12:03 AM
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The article lists the 190E 16-Valve specifically and not the W201 chassis in general. The 16-Valve was sort of a breakthrough car in it's day for MB and MB used it to get back into mainstream racing again. I think the series was already called DTM back then too. I'm not sure if it was one of the 10 best but it was historically important.
10-24-2006, 12:26 PM
#4
MBWorld Fanatic!
I agree that some of these cars are better described as "most significant" rather than "greatest," but the -16 was certainly important. I had one. It was underpowered then and hopelessly so by today's standards, but it demonstrated that MB could build a car that handled as well as it cosseted. It felt smaller than it was turning and larger than it was cruising. It hit a nerve that convinced MB to embark on the path that led to the AMG division.
The C55 is clearly a "greater" car than the -16, but it owns its existence to its Cosworth grandfather.
Similarly, I wouldn't call my old W126 "greater" than the S65 but in terms of breaking ground and inspiring the industry the model was a benchmark.
The C55 is clearly a "greater" car than the -16, but it owns its existence to its Cosworth grandfather.
Similarly, I wouldn't call my old W126 "greater" than the S65 but in terms of breaking ground and inspiring the industry the model was a benchmark.
10-26-2006, 12:25 PM
#5
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: NY/NJ
Posts: 2,116
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
2012 W212 E350 Bluetec
I agree that some of these cars are better described as "most significant" rather than "greatest," but the -16 was certainly important. I had one. It was underpowered then and hopelessly so by today's standards, but it demonstrated that MB could build a car that handled as well as it cosseted. It felt smaller than it was turning and larger than it was cruising. It hit a nerve that convinced MB to embark on the path that led to the AMG division.
The C55 is clearly a "greater" car than the -16, but it owns its existence to its Cosworth grandfather.
Similarly, I wouldn't call my old W126 "greater" than the S65 but in terms of breaking ground and inspiring the industry the model was a benchmark.
The C55 is clearly a "greater" car than the -16, but it owns its existence to its Cosworth grandfather.
Similarly, I wouldn't call my old W126 "greater" than the S65 but in terms of breaking ground and inspiring the industry the model was a benchmark.
I agree with both of you that "breaking ground and inspiring the industry...[becoming] a benchmark" would be appropriate criteria and that "historically significant" would be a more apt name for the list. Even then, I'm not really sure the 190E 16V makes the top 10 for historically significant Mercedes.
To be fair, I must admit I have never liked the W201 much. I have always had the suspicion that it was the first "cheapened" MB and that today's quality/reliability problems could be partially traced back to that car and its underlying philosophy (attract a broader customer base, increase sales volume, use the venerated MB brand to sell any car, etc).
Not that attracting a broader customer base and increasing sales volume are inherently bad things, but you can see how the relentless pursuit of these objectives can lead to the sad situation we are in today.
10-26-2006, 04:45 PM
#6
Super Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: san francisco
Posts: 999
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
C32
I agree with both of you that "breaking ground and inspiring the industry...[becoming] a benchmark" would be appropriate criteria and that "historically significant" would be a more apt name for the list. Even then, I'm not really sure the 190E 16V makes the top 10 for historically significant Mercedes.
To be fair, I must admit I have never liked the W201 much. I have always had the suspicion that it was the first "cheapened" MB and that today's quality/reliability problems could be partially traced back to that car and its underlying philosophy (attract a broader customer base, increase sales volume, use the venerated MB brand to sell any car, etc).
Not that attracting a broader customer base and increasing sales volume are inherently bad things, but you can see how the relentless pursuit of these objectives can lead to the sad situation we are in today.
To be fair, I must admit I have never liked the W201 much. I have always had the suspicion that it was the first "cheapened" MB and that today's quality/reliability problems could be partially traced back to that car and its underlying philosophy (attract a broader customer base, increase sales volume, use the venerated MB brand to sell any car, etc).
Not that attracting a broader customer base and increasing sales volume are inherently bad things, but you can see how the relentless pursuit of these objectives can lead to the sad situation we are in today.
If the W201 is used to cheapen its brand, what about the introduction of the B and A class?
Trending Topics
10-30-2006, 09:38 PM
#9
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: NY/NJ
Posts: 2,116
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
2012 W212 E350 Bluetec
The W124 is a great car indeed. You could probably nominate any post-WWII Mercedes uptil about 1995 for this list: most, if not all, of them were benchmarks in their categories and had unquestioned reliability and innovation.
11-01-2006, 03:29 PM
#14
MBWorld Fanatic!
Times change....if not we'd all be little burgermeister-wannabees driving around a 1958 180d....gimmie a break.
I've talked to many old timers (both enthusiasts as well as mechanics) over the years in MBCA who all told me the same thing: People whined when the W116 was introduced, stating "the last quality MB was the W108"....they whined with the introduction of the W107, exclaiming that the W113 was as good as it gets!
Fast forward to today.....MB sales are higher than they have ever been. So-called "Purists" can't keep a company afloat....just ask Porsche.
Times change, but people don't. Enjoy the Mercedes-Benz of your choice!
I've talked to many old timers (both enthusiasts as well as mechanics) over the years in MBCA who all told me the same thing: People whined when the W116 was introduced, stating "the last quality MB was the W108"....they whined with the introduction of the W107, exclaiming that the W113 was as good as it gets!
Fast forward to today.....MB sales are higher than they have ever been. So-called "Purists" can't keep a company afloat....just ask Porsche.
Times change, but people don't. Enjoy the Mercedes-Benz of your choice!
11-01-2006, 04:37 PM
#15
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: NY/NJ
Posts: 2,116
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
2012 W212 E350 Bluetec
Times change....if not we'd all be little burgermeister-wannabees driving around a 1958 180d....gimmie a break.
I've talked to many old timers (both enthusiasts as well as mechanics) over the years in MBCA who all told me the same thing: People whined when the W116 was introduced, stating "the last quality MB was the W108"....they whined with the introduction of the W107, exclaiming that the W113 was as good as it gets!
Fast forward to today.....MB sales are higher than they have ever been. So-called "Purists" can't keep a company afloat....just ask Porsche.
Times change, but people don't. Enjoy the Mercedes-Benz of your choice!
I've talked to many old timers (both enthusiasts as well as mechanics) over the years in MBCA who all told me the same thing: People whined when the W116 was introduced, stating "the last quality MB was the W108"....they whined with the introduction of the W107, exclaiming that the W113 was as good as it gets!
Fast forward to today.....MB sales are higher than they have ever been. So-called "Purists" can't keep a company afloat....just ask Porsche.
Times change, but people don't. Enjoy the Mercedes-Benz of your choice!
However, that's not really the point here. Of course, people can/will enjoy the MB of their choice. No one is being forced to drive a car of someone else's choice...
PS: We can go off topic on another thread if you really want to open up the can of worms about increasing sales. Increasing sales and cutting costs are good for shareholders, but they are not unambiguously good for buyers or owners. As for Porsche, it is very profitable, so I'm not sure I get your point (is it that Porsche's profitability is due to non-purist cars such as the Cayenne?)
11-01-2006, 05:26 PM
#16
MBWorld Fanatic!
Lexus turned the tables on the luxury car market in 1989.
11-09-2006, 11:31 AM
#17
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The city that never sleeps
Posts: 2,017
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ML320, Looking for my S4
I agree with some of it but their missing the E500, and the 190E 2.5-16 EVOLUTION II. To me thats mercedes at its finest
