Fast55

I meant they do better than just make big power numbers. Maybe MB has a couple things Lexus doesn't. Lexus has several things that MB doesn't. It's ridiculous to say that MB suffers such terrible reliability (real or perceived) VS Lexus because they have more or more advanced features. First, that just isn't the case, and second, even if it was, that is exactly the excuse MB is hoping you'll make for them. The problems I've seen/had with all my MB's are not related to fancy features over half the time. Lexus is not perfect, but they are a helluva lot closer than MB. They didn't make the bottom of the list for nothing.

carsinamerica

[QUOTE=Vik888;1843613]There is no way you can put this much technology into a car and not have reliability issues. Just look at general aviation airplanes .. stuff breaks *ALL THE TIME* from the heat, vibration, smaller and smaller spaces in which everything is installed, etc. Mercedes keeps adding gadgets and if they can't make electronics that an automotive consumer would find reliable for aviation, where the buyer is paying top dollar, there is no way they can build it that reliable for a car.QUOTE]

The '06 LS 430 was at the very top of the list for luxury cars. In fact, I think it had the fewest problems of any new car a year or two ago, maybe still does. Now, it has AT LEAST the overall feature content of the CLS- and E-Classes, and they were third and fourth from the bottom of the list. That tells me that reliability with electronics and gadgets can be done. If the problem is really that M-B is added so many new gizmos and all, then perhaps they should stop adding new toys and fix the ones they have.

The aviation comparison, IMO, is not really valid, since airplanes operate in a much harsher environment (temperature and pressure changes, electrical charges, wind shear, etc.), rack up far more flight-hours than most cars have driving time, and have about a gazillion times as many parts.

vraa

I'm not trying to defend Mercedes. I'm trying to defend Lexus from having people think they are the end-all be all.

Search my (oh my god, many) previous posts about Lexus, you'll see I'm am avid support of the LS400 (first gen) and the LS430 (third gen). I have both.

mkaresh

I don't doubt that Mercedes earned this "win." But how much worse is worse? CR gives no absolute numbers. My full critique:

Critique of Consumer Reports

Oddly, as much evaluation as CR does of everything, hardly anyone evaluates CR.

I'm taking a different approach with my own research. You can read about it here:

Vehicle reliability research

Among other things, I will be reporting absolute numbers, starting with "trips to the shop," and will be updating results quarterly. If Mercedes does start to turn things around, it will be apparent more quickly with quarterly rather than yearly updates.

First, though, I need to start collecting data on some Mercedes models. Not quite enough signed up yet.

Fast55

How much worse? Look at my examples. There may be influences in the ratings that include the way the customer was/is treated, and I'm not sure that is a bad thing. I know CR isn't the last word in automobile ratings, but there is some good data there. While I agree with most of the points made about the flaws in the way CR reports, the difference is the wide range of what is considered "average" or "significant" VS actual mistakes in the data. It is possible to get more detailed info form CR than the black or red "blobs", but you do have to look for it. I cannot disagree with their findings for just about any brand/model I have personal experience with. I don't think you're going to see "significant" differences from the data you collect VS the data/ratings reported by CR.

Vik888

I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with you there as far as your comment on flight-hours vs. driving time. I'm talking about privately owned general aviation aircraft. The average private aircraft owner barely puts 100hrs/yr on his or her plane.

In any event, I theory is flawed as other members have pointed out that LexASS has almost just as much gadgets and better reliability .. but its still a LexASS :P

carsinamerica

Good point, I was thinking of commercial airliners. The bit about orders of magnitude of complexity and stress factors still holds.

I'm not quite sure what the second 'graph is driving at, but the Lexus snipe is a bit nekulturny, don't you think?

gangrun

I dont buy cars for reliability, I buy them for their soul. The Lexus brand has the least soul of any brand around(except toyota-well what a coincidence!)
By the way, in the time it takes the Lexus to park itself I would already be in the restaurant eating dinner.

JCHENRYARCH

Mercedes better do something fast to redeem themselves.
Too many of us are looking at Audi, BMW and Porsche for alternatives.
BMW quality is very good. Audi has gotten very good too.
I agree with previous post that Japanese behemoths have no soul.
They have completely taken out road feel in their largest models.
If Benz had not supercharged their cars, they would be in worse shape than they are now.
Their new S is homely, a real frankenstein of sheet metal work.
They should look back a few years and get 'solid' again.
E series is well done.
They should probably drop completely the C grouping and concentrate on heritage build.

vixapphire

either that, or they'd have to start including complementary ****** in the gloveboxes of their new cars.

drexappeal

I was checking my AOL account and this article was on there:

LINK: MERCEDES LAST IN RELIABILITY

I guess we've just got overpriced/unreliable cars now.

JCHENRYARCH

I like the new E63.
Am waiting for a completely redesigned S series.
Newest CL is looking very nice as well.