Eurosport

at first i thought i'd like the 204, but then i realized it lost something. it lost that sense of style, grace, ellegance that previous models had. it seems too masculine, if there's such a thing.
as far as the interior, definitely not up to par, too much cheap plastic, not just plastic.
no matter what car one buys, there's things that should be perfect, like "badges not showing overun glue" (i've seen this on brand new w204's as well as e63). and that's only a small glimpse of all the little things where you could tell imperfections on the fit and finish.

1985mb

Don't even get me started on the grille-mounted star on a C-class sedan

mleskovar

I'm always amused at the term 'cheap plastic'. I do agree that the current trend towards soft touch plastic is a good step but plastic is plastic. Every car uses pounds of plastic because it's light, easy to make, and way less expensive than metal while still doing the job. So what makes plastic look cheap or not? Surface finish? Fit? Design? What I find interesting is that all of the plastic in the older MB's failed more quickly, and worst than the Japanese counterparts.

dan2010

Something to really keep in mind is the inflation value of the 30-40K car of the late 70's and 80's. In today's dollar that would be in the 80-100K range for a car. Mercedes of old was really out of reach except for the quite wealthy even their low end variety.

Today, the C-class is a car that cost's 40K or in the late 70's dollars, it costs 12K. In that perspective, this is a whole different market aimed squarely at the middle class and could never be made like Merc of old with beautiful wood, solid steel doors and the finest leather.

pmb600

I think mostly surface texture, feel, and appearance make the plastic look "cheap" or not.

I feel like the plastic has been getting harder and uglier. For example new C-Class has a hard plastic dash with ugly texture. The W203 C-Class has a softer plastic dash that has some "give" if you press on it and also has a more realistic grain look to it.

hkycoldrct

I agree that the interior in the C is progressively getting cheaper in quality. It may look sportier but it's just not a solid as it's predecessors. The new W204 is IMHO a step back from the W203 C55 which I feel offers less of a quality feel than that of the C32. Its a corporate world out there and EVERY manufacture in every business looks to increase sales, cut costs and at the same time try to keep the end products cost down to the consumer. It has an affect somewhere in the chain and it comes out in the terms of quality in my book.

Hakk403

Funny, my 94 E320 has the same drag coefficient.

gqmagic

190's and C's (baby benzes as the 190's were called) never were intended to have the same material quality as their E, S, and SL brethren.

In looking at these new C's, imo they're trying to do to much with the skirts, kits,etc.. and then we get the complaints that the interiors aren't like they used to be.

Remember these kits, skirts , etc. are plastic for the most part.

Also the reality is the C Class is the bottom of the line.

A friend of mine with a CLK, once asked how come my interior doesn't look like yours?
I had to tell her because you have a C, I have an E.

For what a C Class cost you can get a low mileage 2-3 yr old E Class.

Or an Acura, Infinity and have a better car, at least those are Honda's and Nissan's luxury, not bottom line.

1985mb

W124s have a cD of 0.29?

ausaf

Mercedes is very fantastic Car and one of the best in the world.

Hakk403

Yup, some of the w124 models actually had a Cd of 0.28. Not sure what mine is with the amg bodykit. I can't find numbers on it.

chiurw

You get what you pay for.

sound 8

I am not bashing MB, they make great cars, but the sales and service sucks.
I have many horror stories regarding both.
How about sales.... Could I arrange a test drive a CL65....answer....you must be joking..said while laughing..my reply well get of your fat *** and get one.
Service. I needed a new plastic trim fitted to my SL55, can I wait while it's being fixed...answer ..no it takes about 2 hours to dry. So I book it in for a day, any problems phone me. I go there at 5pm next day, the girl in service
shrieks ,...we haven't started yet. She comes back and says, ...can you wait
20 minutes he's fixing it now. But what about 2 hours to dry, no ,,she says
he said it dries instantly.It's a good job the cars make up for it.

whoover

None of the 7 MBs I've owned were bought without a test drive. And my service advisor is quite good as well. Whether it's your dealer, a UK problem or a European issue I don't know, but if mine acted like that I would use another. (There are at least 6 major MB dealerships within an hour's drive, which might be why our service is better.)

sound 8

I wish sometimes I lived in the States. I have been to the States
a few times,east and west and I love it. The people are friendly, there is
loads of empty roads, I love driving there.I like watching programmes like
Pimp My Ride where they practically re-build a car. You just can't get these sort of things in the UK, if you could I would be broke by now. As for MB
dealers,there are 3 within an hour drive, I have dealt with all of them, and they are all useless. I seem to know more than the guy selling them.
I think dealers in the States are more on the ball!! and give much better service. Mind you I think other car dealers in the States will be better than the UK as well.

khearon

My service is great for my CLK 350 also. I absolutely love the treatment I receive when I have to visit. Service with a smile. I don't understand why one would post about the quality of Benz products as compared to some older models. I'd take a current model MB car over anything over 10 years old. If I were a collector, that would be different. But, IMHO, the Benz cars are right on target. Yes, GM has the CTS, Vette and upcoming Camaro, but what else do they have that is unique? Not much; too much platform sharing to cut costs. If Chevy wanted to take a HUGE risk that would pay great dividends, they'd drop the 3.6 DI V6 (306 HP) in the Corvette for a limited run Special Edition. I'd surely buy one. Don't start crying Vette lovers. The first Vette came with a 6-cylinder....and don't get me started on petro prices!!!

So, MB and BMW cut costs on materials to give you a more unique driving experience...at a price. I really have issues with American automakers who rebadge every possible car they make. Dammit! A Chrysler 300 is a Charger...and a Magnum.. How many ways can you skin a damn cat today? At MB, a C-Class is a C-Class. Europe may have the better engine choices, but they also have better roadways to take advantage of the performance. I say, Mercedes is doing a damn good job.

Polar Bear

Old thread I know, but I have many times thought about the difference in the prices regarding the older Mercedes-Benz models of the 70's and 80's compared to today. They have NOT inflated with the rest of the industry.

That said, I agree that I don't think the quality is where it used to be. Owning what I would consider one of the best built cars in its day - a 1983 300D Turbo Diesel, I know exactly what you mean regarding the door thump. These were amazingly built, over-engineered cars. But they were expensive - VERY expensive for the time. My car sold for $34,000 new back in 1983 and has the typical options - MB-Tex, sunroof, etc. No power or heated seats, ABS, headlight wipers, airbag, etc. (I have yet to see a US model W123 with those options so I am unsure if they were offered) - so it was pretty much a basic car with the features you noted - disc brakes, IRS, etc.

I have owned two W210 model E55 AMGs and they were great vehicles - no problems to speak of from any of them - but I do agree that these cars are getting too complicated. I think the majority of owners now lease these cars because they do not want to own them when they are not covered under warranty. In contrast - in the early 80's, people bought these cars to keep 10+ years.

I personally enjoy them because of ride and them being rear-wheel-drive, and the feel of them on the road. I also prefer Diesel technology and they are the only game in town at the moment, although I don't see me looking at anything else even if another manufacturer introduced a Diesel passenger car in the US. It would be difficult to go from a W211 to a Jetta TDI, although the Jetta is a very nice car.

As far as direction - it seems to be a double edged sword for Mercedes. If they stuck to their philosophies in the 80's, we wouldn't see any of the advanced electronics in them we see today, which would cause a drop in sales for buyers looking for that stuff (and arguably a longer service life for the car due to increased reliability that would in turn cause sales to drop further). Technology seems to be one common complaint is this forums - the COMAND is subpar compared to Asian competitors, etc. IMO Mercedes gets many other more important things right that the Asian competitors do not.

So what are they to do? I guess one could debate that they need to over-engineer and provide advanced technology from proven suppliers that provide good product, but we would certainly see an increase in price and cause the effect that originated this discussion in regards to Mercedes' price point in the automobile market.

Mercedes sales are increasing year after year. Even with the downturn of quality in the mid 90's to mid 00's the sales numbers continued to increase. Obviously a drastic price increase would impact those sales numbers, so I don't see them changing their company direction any time soon.

I personally would like to see a modern W123 produced, which I could see based on a W204 with a modern Diesel engine (without AdBlue for simplicity) and MB-Tex interior and few options and features to keep the price in check. This would be a wonderful car that I would consider (and rumor is they are bringing the Diesel to the US in 2010 in the W204 - I just hope it is sans AdBlue).

I like the W204 from what little experience I have had with it, but my very first impression was NOT good regarding the interior. I think the W203 2005-2007 models had a much more attractive interior with more wood trim. The new radio buttons, albeit convenient and functional, remind me of a Ford Escape. I wish they would introduce more wood trim in all models. This makes the CLS interior very attractive.

Also - I am starting to see more "blanks" used on the dashboards and consoles starting with the W203/W204, W209, and W211. These did not exist that I am aware of in previous models and are not especially attactive.

In regards to the ML, I received one as a loaner when my car was serviced. It was a 2008 model ML350. I never have liked the first generation MLs in regards to appearance or performance. However, the new ML did change that. It was a vehicle I didn't expect to like at all (with the often mentioned plastic looking interior) but by the time I turned it in I would consider it as my next vehicle - especially the Diesel. I was very impressed with the ride, drive, performance, and quality of this car.

It will be interesting to see what the W212 looks like and the direction they go with it. If they continue to get their quality up as owners are reporting with their 2007+ W211s and Consumer Reports adding them to the Recommended List, the W212 could be a home run.

CE750

Dan, that's just it.. Mercedes isn't supposed to be a car that anyone can buy. The idea that a fully loaded Honda Accord and a similarly loaded C class (baring AMG) are with in a few thousand dollars, when back in the 80's a top of the line Honda sedan cost a fraction of the bottom of the line 240D is that the Mercedes was a car that was an order of magnitude better.. in quality, engineering and held it's value like Gold.

The body style of Mercedes historically changed ever decade or longer (the SL's ran from 1973 thru 1986 unchanged except minor items).. Today, 7 year life cycles are more like the American/Japanese cycles as is the quality of the materials and workmanship... Again, I hate to say it, but when my CDI finally gets to old and ragged out, I'm likely going to go to BMW, and if they slip any further themselves, I'll just resign myself to a domestic or Japanese product...at least I will get a better value since they're really not an worse than the typical MB product in the same price range.

Anyway..

Polar Bear

I have had excellent service from domestic products - I have an old 1996 Ford Explorer with 210k+ miles on it and it still runs like new and uses no oil. I think Ford makes a great product.

sound 8

The trouble with MB these days, along with many other brands is they employ
fitters not mechanics. And they rely on a diagnostic machine, if you have a
problem it's often outside their knowledge to fix. I had a vibration, they checked it three times over several weeks and gave up. I took it to a
specialist tuning company, they said it was the fly/stress plate, back to
MB and fixed.Anything other than servicing seems to be a problem, I have
several horror stories.

CE750

I can't tell if you're being serious or sarcastic what that... but eitherway, I agree with your prior posts.

Fraser

The one thing that disappoints me about the current line of Benzs (with the exception of the E Class) are the interiors. When the W221 first came out I was at the dealer taking a look and I really wasn't impressed. The steering wheels looks like it has come off a Hyundai and it didn't feel solid at all. Didn't like the almost copy of the BMW 7 Series front cabin either. Much preferred the W220 in all respects, though the exterior has grown on me lately. I can remember my first ride in a LWB W220 and thinking how big a leap forward it was, in contrast the W221 was almost underwhelming!

Back in the late 90s I liked the entire Mercedes lineup with the exception of the C Class. Now I only really like the E as an entire package. As you can see from my signature my family have nearly always bought Mercedes but that is changing. My father passed up a new W211 S550/S55 AMG in favour of an Audi A8 and I have to say I can't blame him. The Audi is a fantastic car, I loved his W220 but this just feels so well put together. If I was in the market for a big sedan I'd start with an S8.

CE750

I agree, the current E is the best of the current line, but that will change in a year or so. No doubt arguably, the interior quality and aesthetics of today's MB is a shadow if it's former glory. ESPECIALLY when you consider the relative quality of the interior to other cars.. There was no doubt in anyones mind in 1980, as to which car had the superior build quality.. the 450SEL or the Cadillac Fleetwood... today, it's arguably close or 2 and a half a dozen of the other..

Shame on you MB.

tyler_durden

MB SOld out. they had no choice. They would never profit if they didn't start imitating Camrys and look like chrylsers.


I own one of the best cars ever made MBs a 1990 300E.


A ****in inline 6 , with perfect 50-50 balance, back in 90's when BMW was still no where any where near the sports scene like it is now..

You could drive it 150 mphs ...and it drove like a TANK

somewhere along the line....MB sold out, gave up their pursuit of perfection.



I am not switching loyalities to PORSCHE or whoever else actually cares about craftmanship.

You know...PORSCHE engines are bulletproof. they are HAND-mADE?

HLG600

The merger with Chrysler was devastating to the quality of Mercedes Benz automobiles, cheapening the fit and finish of the brand. I have not had a chance to examine the W204 in detail, but I have had a fair amount of time to play with a W221 S550. The quality and feel of that model is astounding, with a viscous, broad power band and a surefooted grip of the road.

Our W220 4Matic is also a fantastic car, with 62,000 on the clock as of now. I almost prefer it to the W221, as it feels more agile and maneuverable. At triple digit speeds, all windows up and radio off, nothing but silence fills the cabin. As for my R129, it is a blast to fly down the highway in, and can even hold its own on a drawn out, windy stretch of road as well.

However, I do agree that Mercedes vehicles are overtly complex with their electrical systems, making post-warranty service especially irritating at times. So the experience is often quite an enjoyable one...but be prepared to pay for it.