Mercedes-Benz engines vs. BMW engines
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From: Alpharetta, GA
2003 C32
Originally posted by PiNoYBaLLeR
this thread is kinda gay because BMW and Mercedes-Benz should both be Allies....and i dont see a reason to hate BMW or any reason to hate mercedes benz....both are good German vehicles in my opinion
but if you really wanna see my answer....
wait till 2006-2008 and look at the M3,M4,M5,and M6
this thread is kinda gay because BMW and Mercedes-Benz should both be Allies....and i dont see a reason to hate BMW or any reason to hate mercedes benz....both are good German vehicles in my opinion
but if you really wanna see my answer....
wait till 2006-2008 and look at the M3,M4,M5,and M6
Why am I reminded of the Juvenile song "Bling Bling" where he talks about having a "Mercedes S700 V14"?
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,065
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From: Florida
2002 CLK 55 AMG Coupe ;)
Originally posted by EiknujZneb
I found the article, the 5.5 liter AMG Kompressor engine won the International Engine of the Year award for 2003. Article here:
http://www.ukintpress.com/engineoftheyear/bestperf.html
At the bottom you will see this engine outshone engines from Audi, BMW, Ferrari, Porsche, and Honda.
I found the article, the 5.5 liter AMG Kompressor engine won the International Engine of the Year award for 2003. Article here:
http://www.ukintpress.com/engineoftheyear/bestperf.html
At the bottom you will see this engine outshone engines from Audi, BMW, Ferrari, Porsche, and Honda.
"Eaton-supplied
mechanical supercharger. It exerts a
maximum pressure of 0.9bar, and
has two Teflon- coated aluminium
shafts, rotating at 23,000rpm, that
push 1,850kg/h of air into the eight
combustion chambers."
PS
...to be on the safe side and for longevity, -
350 hp without supercharger suits me fine!
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From: Moon
marta
Most powerful engine has to goto Mercedes..the twin-turbo V12 can kick some major ***. But the best engine design and such has to goto BMW..they just get more power N/A showing superior engineering- they can get more power than MB if they just added a supercharger; but I don't know why they won't do that.
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996 Turbo
Originally posted by Kain
What about the new 500+ horsepower V10 engine coming to the new BMW M5?
What about the new 500+ horsepower V10 engine coming to the new BMW M5?
I'll keep mentioning this till someone gets the point....
ANY big car maker can push an engine to the limits 120 bhp/liter no big deal. 300 bhp/liter is also easily done the question comes down to reliability. The M3 engine is a prime example of this, its pushed to its ragged edge and components started to fail, you also have another issue of where power is generated do you want a lot of low end torque useful for street driving or do you want a car that produces most of its power at the top end like an S2000 does where its abilities shine on the track but you need to beat the engine up to have fun with it for daily use.
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Originally posted by ChrisC32
Long story short: They each use 2 different methods to make engines. BMW doesn't mind stressing their engines to the max, keeping them N/A. MB will use Superchargers/Turbos to get the same performance, but with much less strain on the engine, it also saves them a heck of a lot of money in production costs
Long story short: They each use 2 different methods to make engines. BMW doesn't mind stressing their engines to the max, keeping them N/A. MB will use Superchargers/Turbos to get the same performance, but with much less strain on the engine, it also saves them a heck of a lot of money in production costs
BTW BMW does not need force induction to make the same amount of power as mercedes or any other car manufactuers out there.
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996 Turbo
Originally posted by TeKNiC330
FI puts more stress on engines than N/A.
BTW BMW does not need force induction to make the same amount of power as mercedes or any other car manufactuers out there.
FI puts more stress on engines than N/A.
BTW BMW does not need force induction to make the same amount of power as mercedes or any other car manufactuers out there.
You are right FI does put more stress on the engine BUT its no where NEAR as stressful as what BMW has done with the M3s straight six.
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From: Alpharetta, GA
2003 C32
Originally posted by TeKNiC330
FI puts more stress on engines than N/A.
BTW BMW does not need force induction to make the same amount of power as mercedes or any other car manufactuers out there.
FI puts more stress on engines than N/A.
BTW BMW does not need force induction to make the same amount of power as mercedes or any other car manufactuers out there.
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 304
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From: Alpharetta, GA
2003 C32
Re: Welcome to the last century
Originally posted by Steve Clark
2002 tii's,while being fun little cars,were never turbocharged from the factory.
2002 tii's,while being fun little cars,were never turbocharged from the factory.
http://www.bmwworld.com/models/newclass/2002_turbo.htm
As for it being last century or not, what does that matter? Every manufacturer goes to the well of forced induction at one point or another. For any of their fanboys to deride forced induction as somehow "not real" is a prime example of hypocrisy.
Thread Starter
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N/A
Originally posted by FInality
Really? So what engine do they produce today or in the future that pumps out the horespower of the 55 Supercharged or 65 series engines? If they manage to pump a 5 liter V10 pumping 500 bhp+ then the engine will lack the torque levels we are accustomed to having with the M5.
You are right FI does put more stress on the engine BUT its no where NEAR as stressful as what BMW has done with the M3s straight six.
Really? So what engine do they produce today or in the future that pumps out the horespower of the 55 Supercharged or 65 series engines? If they manage to pump a 5 liter V10 pumping 500 bhp+ then the engine will lack the torque levels we are accustomed to having with the M5.
You are right FI does put more stress on the engine BUT its no where NEAR as stressful as what BMW has done with the M3s straight six.
On the other hand, BMW makes totally different engines for its M cars. This shows the commitment BMW has. Mercedes-Benz basically takes the E500/S500 engine, slaps in a supercharger and says "Hey, this is our new performance engine."
What engine that pumps out the 55 AMG engine? The new upcoming engine in the next BMW M5. This is a V10 NA engine developing atleast 500 hp. Now, image what would happen if BMW slapped in a supercharger/turbo in that??
Senior Member
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From: Alpharetta, GA
2003 C32
Originally posted by Kain
Now, image what would happen if BMW slapped in a supercharger/turbo in that??
Now, image what would happen if BMW slapped in a supercharger/turbo in that??
The header would achieve low earth orbit
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Originally posted by karl k
"Now, image what would happen if BMW slapped in a supercharger/turbo in that??"
It would convert insanity into trash!
"Now, image what would happen if BMW slapped in a supercharger/turbo in that??"
It would convert insanity into trash!
I doubt the stress put on the E46 M3 is more than the stress put on the C32 with its supercharger. Isn't the C32's engine just a C320's with a supercharger? Put a supercharger in a 330, then you'll have the same results.
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996 Turbo
Originally posted by Kain
All these AMG engines are because of the supercharger. That's it. What happens when you take away the supercharger? You get pretty much a normal E500 engine.
On the other hand, BMW makes totally different engines for its M cars. This shows the commitment BMW has. Mercedes-Benz basically takes the E500/S500 engine, slaps in a supercharger and says "Hey, this is our new performance engine."
What engine that pumps out the 55 AMG engine? The new upcoming engine in the next BMW M5. This is a V10 NA engine developing atleast 500 hp. Now, image what would happen if BMW slapped in a supercharger/turbo in that??
All these AMG engines are because of the supercharger. That's it. What happens when you take away the supercharger? You get pretty much a normal E500 engine.
On the other hand, BMW makes totally different engines for its M cars. This shows the commitment BMW has. Mercedes-Benz basically takes the E500/S500 engine, slaps in a supercharger and says "Hey, this is our new performance engine."
What engine that pumps out the 55 AMG engine? The new upcoming engine in the next BMW M5. This is a V10 NA engine developing atleast 500 hp. Now, image what would happen if BMW slapped in a supercharger/turbo in that??
Yes BMW makes totally unique engines for the M series but they use that technology as a development platform for future tech ie the Double Vanos system - which I might add was not that reliable until recently.
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1990 190E
Just thought I would add my thoughts to this discussion.
I remember reading an article where they took some performance cars onto the autobahn to time them between two points from a standing start.
From memory the cars included:
E39 M5 standard but derestricted
E39 M5 B10 Alpina
W210 Brabus EV12
W210 E55 deresricted
Lotus Carlton - grandpa of perf. saloons
An Audi - can't remember but poss. RS4
The EV12 walked it obviously, but more importantly both BMW engines blew up at around 165mph. The rep from Brabus who was present said that BMW engines were know to be on their limits from the factory and that BMW built them to withstand very little more than the stresses that the rev/speed limiter would allow.
I'n not knocking Beemers, My dad had an E34 530i years ago and I loved driving it when I could, but the engineering doesn't come close to a MB.
Also, why do BMW drivers go on about the DTM and other sporting events and portray MB as an old persons car, when in reality MB are the most successful manufacturer in DTM and 190's gave the immortal E30 M3 a lesson in racing when they raced each other
Bazza
I remember reading an article where they took some performance cars onto the autobahn to time them between two points from a standing start.
From memory the cars included:
E39 M5 standard but derestricted
E39 M5 B10 Alpina
W210 Brabus EV12
W210 E55 deresricted
Lotus Carlton - grandpa of perf. saloons
An Audi - can't remember but poss. RS4
The EV12 walked it obviously, but more importantly both BMW engines blew up at around 165mph. The rep from Brabus who was present said that BMW engines were know to be on their limits from the factory and that BMW built them to withstand very little more than the stresses that the rev/speed limiter would allow.
I'n not knocking Beemers, My dad had an E34 530i years ago and I loved driving it when I could, but the engineering doesn't come close to a MB.
Also, why do BMW drivers go on about the DTM and other sporting events and portray MB as an old persons car, when in reality MB are the most successful manufacturer in DTM and 190's gave the immortal E30 M3 a lesson in racing when they raced each other
Bazza
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Joined: May 2003
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Originally posted by bazza
Just thought I would add my thoughts to this discussion.
I remember reading an article where they took some performance cars onto the autobahn to time them between two points from a standing start.
From memory the cars included:
E39 M5 standard but derestricted
E39 M5 B10 Alpina
W210 Brabus EV12
W210 E55 deresricted
Lotus Carlton - grandpa of perf. saloons
An Audi - can't remember but poss. RS4
The EV12 walked it obviously, but more importantly both BMW engines blew up at around 165mph. The rep from Brabus who was present said that BMW engines were know to be on their limits from the factory and that BMW built them to withstand very little more than the stresses that the rev/speed limiter would allow.
I'n not knocking Beemers, My dad had an E34 530i years ago and I loved driving it when I could, but the engineering doesn't come close to a MB.
Also, why do BMW drivers go on about the DTM and other sporting events and portray MB as an old persons car, when in reality MB are the most successful manufacturer in DTM and 190's gave the immortal E30 M3 a lesson in racing when they raced each other
Bazza
Just thought I would add my thoughts to this discussion.
I remember reading an article where they took some performance cars onto the autobahn to time them between two points from a standing start.
From memory the cars included:
E39 M5 standard but derestricted
E39 M5 B10 Alpina
W210 Brabus EV12
W210 E55 deresricted
Lotus Carlton - grandpa of perf. saloons
An Audi - can't remember but poss. RS4
The EV12 walked it obviously, but more importantly both BMW engines blew up at around 165mph. The rep from Brabus who was present said that BMW engines were know to be on their limits from the factory and that BMW built them to withstand very little more than the stresses that the rev/speed limiter would allow.
I'n not knocking Beemers, My dad had an E34 530i years ago and I loved driving it when I could, but the engineering doesn't come close to a MB.
Also, why do BMW drivers go on about the DTM and other sporting events and portray MB as an old persons car, when in reality MB are the most successful manufacturer in DTM and 190's gave the immortal E30 M3 a lesson in racing when they raced each other
Bazza
Also, take a mercedes C320 and BMW 330i to the track. Both sport models, who do you think will win?
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1990 190E
They have speed limiters set at 155mph, they same as most other manufacturers, Gentlemans agreement that started in Germany I think.
I don't know how the engines blew up, just posting what I read. Don't know if it was a coincidence or whatever.
I presume the gearing on the M5 was such that it was nearly red lining at 155mph. I have not driven an M5 so I could not say if this is the case, but other BMW's that I have driven seem low geared compared to the equivalent MB. This probably contributes to the sporty nature and feel of the cars.
I agree about the C320 and the 330i straight from the factory.
I love the way the BMW feels sportier to drive, but you have to admit when it comes to Motorsport, MB has been more successful.
If only they could apply some of this to cars like the C-Class to make even non AMG models a bit more exciting to drive.
Bazza
I don't know how the engines blew up, just posting what I read. Don't know if it was a coincidence or whatever.
I presume the gearing on the M5 was such that it was nearly red lining at 155mph. I have not driven an M5 so I could not say if this is the case, but other BMW's that I have driven seem low geared compared to the equivalent MB. This probably contributes to the sporty nature and feel of the cars.
I agree about the C320 and the 330i straight from the factory.
I love the way the BMW feels sportier to drive, but you have to admit when it comes to Motorsport, MB has been more successful.
If only they could apply some of this to cars like the C-Class to make even non AMG models a bit more exciting to drive.
Bazza
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 54
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From: Austin, Texas
1991 300E
Originally posted by TeKNiC330
FI puts more stress on engines than N/A.
BTW BMW does not need force induction to make the same amount of power as mercedes or any other car manufactuers out there.
FI puts more stress on engines than N/A.
BTW BMW does not need force induction to make the same amount of power as mercedes or any other car manufactuers out there.
Whoa whoa whoa... completely not true.
Compare the number of blown engines between the m3 and the c32.. there goes youre "more stress" theory...
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Joined: Feb 2003
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From: Austin, Texas
1991 300E
Originally posted by Kain
All these AMG engines are because of the supercharger. That's it. What happens when you take away the supercharger? You get pretty much a normal E500 engine.
On the other hand, BMW makes totally different engines for its M cars. This shows the commitment BMW has. Mercedes-Benz basically takes the E500/S500 engine, slaps in a supercharger and says "Hey, this is our new performance engine."
What engine that pumps out the 55 AMG engine? The new upcoming engine in the next BMW M5. This is a V10 NA engine developing atleast 500 hp. Now, image what would happen if BMW slapped in a supercharger/turbo in that??
All these AMG engines are because of the supercharger. That's it. What happens when you take away the supercharger? You get pretty much a normal E500 engine.
On the other hand, BMW makes totally different engines for its M cars. This shows the commitment BMW has. Mercedes-Benz basically takes the E500/S500 engine, slaps in a supercharger and says "Hey, this is our new performance engine."
What engine that pumps out the 55 AMG engine? The new upcoming engine in the next BMW M5. This is a V10 NA engine developing atleast 500 hp. Now, image what would happen if BMW slapped in a supercharger/turbo in that??
What you said was so inredibly stupid i think my IQ just dropped a couple points....
Try slapping a supercharger on the e500 and running .9 bar, then tell me how many minutes it took to melt a piston.
Please, if you don't know nothing about the 55k engine, don't post about it.
Almost a Member!
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 54
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From: Austin, Texas
1991 300E
Originally posted by bazza
Just thought I would add my thoughts to this discussion.
I remember reading an article where they took some performance cars onto the autobahn to time them between two points from a standing start.
From memory the cars included:
E39 M5 standard but derestricted
E39 M5 B10 Alpina
W210 Brabus EV12
W210 E55 deresricted
Lotus Carlton - grandpa of perf. saloons
An Audi - can't remember but poss. RS4
The EV12 walked it obviously, but more importantly both BMW engines blew up at around 165mph. The rep from Brabus who was present said that BMW engines were know to be on their limits from the factory and that BMW built them to withstand very little more than the stresses that the rev/speed limiter would allow.
I'n not knocking Beemers, My dad had an E34 530i years ago and I loved driving it when I could, but the engineering doesn't come close to a MB.
Also, why do BMW drivers go on about the DTM and other sporting events and portray MB as an old persons car, when in reality MB are the most successful manufacturer in DTM and 190's gave the immortal E30 M3 a lesson in racing when they raced each other
Bazza
Just thought I would add my thoughts to this discussion.
I remember reading an article where they took some performance cars onto the autobahn to time them between two points from a standing start.
From memory the cars included:
E39 M5 standard but derestricted
E39 M5 B10 Alpina
W210 Brabus EV12
W210 E55 deresricted
Lotus Carlton - grandpa of perf. saloons
An Audi - can't remember but poss. RS4
The EV12 walked it obviously, but more importantly both BMW engines blew up at around 165mph. The rep from Brabus who was present said that BMW engines were know to be on their limits from the factory and that BMW built them to withstand very little more than the stresses that the rev/speed limiter would allow.
I'n not knocking Beemers, My dad had an E34 530i years ago and I loved driving it when I could, but the engineering doesn't come close to a MB.
Also, why do BMW drivers go on about the DTM and other sporting events and portray MB as an old persons car, when in reality MB are the most successful manufacturer in DTM and 190's gave the immortal E30 M3 a lesson in racing when they raced each other
Bazza
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 28,933
Likes: 12
Originally posted by Kain
All these AMG engines are because of the supercharger. That's it. What happens when you take away the supercharger? You get pretty much a normal E500 engine.
On the other hand, BMW makes totally different engines for its M cars. This shows the commitment BMW has. Mercedes-Benz basically takes the E500/S500 engine, slaps in a supercharger and says "Hey, this is our new performance engine."
What engine that pumps out the 55 AMG engine? The new upcoming engine in the next BMW M5. This is a V10 NA engine developing atleast 500 hp. Now, image what would happen if BMW slapped in a supercharger/turbo in that??
All these AMG engines are because of the supercharger. That's it. What happens when you take away the supercharger? You get pretty much a normal E500 engine.
On the other hand, BMW makes totally different engines for its M cars. This shows the commitment BMW has. Mercedes-Benz basically takes the E500/S500 engine, slaps in a supercharger and says "Hey, this is our new performance engine."
What engine that pumps out the 55 AMG engine? The new upcoming engine in the next BMW M5. This is a V10 NA engine developing atleast 500 hp. Now, image what would happen if BMW slapped in a supercharger/turbo in that??
Kain, as a fellow youngin I had to stand next to your crap and take it. Only out of respect. However I have completley lost it with this post. Not only do you bad mouth Mercedes on a Mercedes site, you incorrectly do it as well. Also you show the worst side of BMW fan boys, the ones without any knowledge. Please continue on rambling your non-sense for I as one sure do enjoy seeing everyone else correct your mistakes.
[/rant]
You take away the supercharger for an E55 and your left with some 370hp (I think i'm way off, 349 is for the 32's, and 362 is for the 55's right?) mind blowing horsies. Oh yeah, and you get a pretty nice car to boot!
The header would achieve low earth orbit
That has got to be the highlight of my week! Thanks!
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 28,933
Likes: 12
Originally posted by TeKNiC330
Remember the E36 M3's? Mainly people have Turboed those and got some seriously crazy power outta them. Why didn't BMW put it in from the factory, maybe cause it was not needed for the E36 M3 to compete with the C36 or C43.
I doubt the stress put on the E46 M3 is more than the stress put on the C32 with its supercharger. Isn't the C32's engine just a C320's with a supercharger? Put a supercharger in a 330, then you'll have the same results.
Remember the E36 M3's? Mainly people have Turboed those and got some seriously crazy power outta them. Why didn't BMW put it in from the factory, maybe cause it was not needed for the E36 M3 to compete with the C36 or C43.
I doubt the stress put on the E46 M3 is more than the stress put on the C32 with its supercharger. Isn't the C32's engine just a C320's with a supercharger? Put a supercharger in a 330, then you'll have the same results.
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 538
Likes: 0
N/A
Originally posted by vraa
[rant]
Kain, as a fellow youngin I had to stand next to your crap and take it. Only out of respect. However I have completley lost it with this post. Not only do you bad mouth Mercedes on a Mercedes site, you incorrectly do it as well. Also you show the worst side of BMW fan boys, the ones without any knowledge. Please continue on rambling your non-sense for I as one sure do enjoy seeing everyone else correct your mistakes.
[/rant]
You take away the supercharger for an E55 and your left with some 370hp (I think i'm way off, 349 is for the 32's, and 362 is for the 55's right?) mind blowing horsies. Oh yeah, and you get a pretty nice car to boot!
That has got to be the highlight of my week! Thanks!
[rant]
Kain, as a fellow youngin I had to stand next to your crap and take it. Only out of respect. However I have completley lost it with this post. Not only do you bad mouth Mercedes on a Mercedes site, you incorrectly do it as well. Also you show the worst side of BMW fan boys, the ones without any knowledge. Please continue on rambling your non-sense for I as one sure do enjoy seeing everyone else correct your mistakes.
[/rant]
You take away the supercharger for an E55 and your left with some 370hp (I think i'm way off, 349 is for the 32's, and 362 is for the 55's right?) mind blowing horsies. Oh yeah, and you get a pretty nice car to boot!
That has got to be the highlight of my week! Thanks!
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Posts: 756
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why do people keep saying the supercharger is cheating? its not like youre building the engine yourself. youre just going to the dealership and buying whats there. on the bmw forums people are always *****ing about the fact that AMG uses superchargers but they love the porsche twin turbos, key words here are twin turbo... double standards
any 55 AMG will **** on any M series car and during the actual race it doesent matter if its supercharged or not, you still got your *** kicked. I bet their really embarrased when that old mans car kicks the crap outta their M5
any 55 AMG will **** on any M series car and during the actual race it doesent matter if its supercharged or not, you still got your *** kicked. I bet their really embarrased when that old mans car kicks the crap outta their M5
