Mercedes-Benz engines vs. BMW engines
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Originally posted by Caliz_Finest
any 55 AMG will **** on any M series car and during the actual race it doesent matter if its supercharged or not, you still got your *** kicked. I bet their really embarrased when that old mans car kicks the crap outta their M5
any 55 AMG will **** on any M series car and during the actual race it doesent matter if its supercharged or not, you still got your *** kicked. I bet their really embarrased when that old mans car kicks the crap outta their M5
Just wait for the NA 500-550 hp V10 engine that will be in the new M5 and M6. And don't forget the NA 400 hp V8 engine going in the next M3 and M4.
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1990 190E
Does anybody actually believe the BHP quoted by manufacturers?
This months Performance BMW has a dyno shoot out with E30's.
I'm not picking on BMW's, just don't have any dyno results of MB's
1st car - 3.2 E36 M3 Evo engine with 6 speed box, custom exhaust and Pipercross filter - 280bhp and 226lb/ft
2nd - bored out to 2.7,Griffin motorsport head, Schrick 284/272 cam,6 branch manifold,bored throttle body,MAF conversion,Scorpion exhaust,ITG filter - 210/205
3rd - 325i with Alpina chip, 6 branch manifold and a K&N - 154/162
4th - 325i chipped,FSE powerboost valve,K&N and custom exhaust - 164/152
5th - 325i BBR chip, Magnex exhaust, and K&N - 172/174
Ok so these cars have a few miles under their belts, but as the 325i claims to have 170bhp and the M3 Evo, 321 bhp, it shows that you can't compare cars on paper.It's also good as it lets you know what works and what doesn't. i.e. BBR chip appears to be better than an Alpina.
There was a "stock" engined 325i for comparison - made 170/171 - I think he wasn't telling us about something! Bet it made the guys with all the toys sick!!
On a similar note, which is quicker on a twisty road, wet and dry,
A4 quattro or 3 series?
Autocar tested them and the BMW was slightly quicker in the dry, but MUCH quicker in the wet!!
Bazza
This months Performance BMW has a dyno shoot out with E30's.
I'm not picking on BMW's, just don't have any dyno results of MB's
1st car - 3.2 E36 M3 Evo engine with 6 speed box, custom exhaust and Pipercross filter - 280bhp and 226lb/ft
2nd - bored out to 2.7,Griffin motorsport head, Schrick 284/272 cam,6 branch manifold,bored throttle body,MAF conversion,Scorpion exhaust,ITG filter - 210/205
3rd - 325i with Alpina chip, 6 branch manifold and a K&N - 154/162
4th - 325i chipped,FSE powerboost valve,K&N and custom exhaust - 164/152
5th - 325i BBR chip, Magnex exhaust, and K&N - 172/174
Ok so these cars have a few miles under their belts, but as the 325i claims to have 170bhp and the M3 Evo, 321 bhp, it shows that you can't compare cars on paper.It's also good as it lets you know what works and what doesn't. i.e. BBR chip appears to be better than an Alpina.
There was a "stock" engined 325i for comparison - made 170/171 - I think he wasn't telling us about something! Bet it made the guys with all the toys sick!!
On a similar note, which is quicker on a twisty road, wet and dry,
A4 quattro or 3 series?
Autocar tested them and the BMW was slightly quicker in the dry, but MUCH quicker in the wet!!
Bazza
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From: asdf
asdf
Originally posted by Caliz_Finest
why do people keep saying the supercharger is cheating? its not like youre building the engine yourself. youre just going to the dealership and buying whats there. on the bmw forums people are always *****ing about the fact that AMG uses superchargers but they love the porsche twin turbos, key words here are twin turbo... double standards
any 55 AMG will **** on any M series car and during the actual race it doesent matter if its supercharged or not, you still got your *** kicked. I bet their really embarrased when that old mans car kicks the crap outta their M5
why do people keep saying the supercharger is cheating? its not like youre building the engine yourself. youre just going to the dealership and buying whats there. on the bmw forums people are always *****ing about the fact that AMG uses superchargers but they love the porsche twin turbos, key words here are twin turbo... double standards
any 55 AMG will **** on any M series car and during the actual race it doesent matter if its supercharged or not, you still got your *** kicked. I bet their really embarrased when that old mans car kicks the crap outta their M5
Both cars are getting the most power out of the engine using different techniques. No one is better than the other. And I also hate that double standard. Anything Porsche does is alright
, but MB gets flamed for using the "p*ssy way."And I will dissagree with you on the AMG 55 N/A. The BMW M5 will be at least equal if not faster. The V8 Kompressor will be a different story. And btw, just talking about straight line.
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From: Malverne,NY
1985 MB 380SE
I forgot who's pic. this is but, I found it amusing. I'm not knocking BMW cause I do own one myself and I'm not saying Mercedes is a better car. I do own MB's and BMW's and I like them both.
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From: Encino
2002 C230K
Originally posted by Kain
You see! The engine is NOTHING without the supercharger. BMW's M5 engine (which is about 5 years old) makes 400 hp!
You see! The engine is NOTHING without the supercharger. BMW's M5 engine (which is about 5 years old) makes 400 hp!
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996 Turbo
Originally posted by Kain
LOL! Show me a CLK55 AMG beating a M5 on the track, or even a drag race! LOL! And there is no way an E55 AMG will beat the current M5 on the track.
Just wait for the NA 500-550 hp V10 engine that will be in the new M5 and M6. And don't forget the NA 400 hp V8 engine going in the next M3 and M4.
LOL! Show me a CLK55 AMG beating a M5 on the track, or even a drag race! LOL! And there is no way an E55 AMG will beat the current M5 on the track.
Just wait for the NA 500-550 hp V10 engine that will be in the new M5 and M6. And don't forget the NA 400 hp V8 engine going in the next M3 and M4.
Pity you didn't make a wager on that little statement of yours.
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Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Florida
2002 CLK 55 AMG Coupe ;)
That's why I maintain:
The 2002 CLK55 AMG Coupe is the best car ever produced since Karl Benz
patented the world's first motorcar in 1886, registered his patent DRP
37435, which is considered as the official birth certificate of the first motor
car!
The 2002 CLK55 AMG Coupe is the best car ever produced since Karl Benz
patented the world's first motorcar in 1886, registered his patent DRP
37435, which is considered as the official birth certificate of the first motor
car!
Originally posted by FInality
Ask and you shall receive.
Pity you didn't make a wager on that little statement of yours.
Ask and you shall receive.
Pity you didn't make a wager on that little statement of yours.
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996 Turbo
Originally posted by Kain
Mercedes-Benz more reliable than BMW? LMAO! Good one!
Mercedes-Benz more reliable than BMW? LMAO! Good one!
There is NOTHING more reliable than MB trannies and engines, even Japanese car makers hve trouble matching the reliability that MB puts out.
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From: Chicago
E55
If you read the survey results properly you'd note that MB was given high marks for Engine and transmission reliability. We all know the rest of MBs quality has fallen off a cliff - though its not as bad as some members put it out to be. There are a lot of minor issues that go into the survey as well eg faulty window switches, minor electrical issues etc note it NEVER takes into the account the severity of the problem just that there is an issue.
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From: Florida
2002 CLK 55 AMG Coupe ;)
The survey only proves one thing:
The idea of PERFECTION is an IMPERFECT idea.
Lexus - ranked #1 - had 163 defects, more than half of MB's score.
Those #s are averages, - all models lumped together.
The Alabama manufactured M truck is notorious for its defects, and so are all new models introduced by MB.
The AMG models are exceptional. That's why I maintain:
The 2002 CLK55 AMG Coupe is the best car ever produced since Karl Benz
patented the world's first motorcar in 1886, registered his patent DRP
37435, which is considered as the official birth certificate of the first motor
car!
The idea of PERFECTION is an IMPERFECT idea.
Lexus - ranked #1 - had 163 defects, more than half of MB's score.
Those #s are averages, - all models lumped together.
The Alabama manufactured M truck is notorious for its defects, and so are all new models introduced by MB.
The AMG models are exceptional. That's why I maintain:
The 2002 CLK55 AMG Coupe is the best car ever produced since Karl Benz
patented the world's first motorcar in 1886, registered his patent DRP
37435, which is considered as the official birth certificate of the first motor
car!
Out Of Control!!
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Normally I'd go along with the Lexus Number 1, but that's not the point here. You have to take into account the M crap, err truck which is, well Karl took the words out of my mouth. Notorious for problems!
Let me think of which bimmers are new. Thinking, nope can't think of any that the public actually wants to buy.
Let me think of which bimmers are new. Thinking, nope can't think of any that the public actually wants to buy.
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Joined: Dec 2002
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From: BH, MI
C63S past: E90 M3 6M, w211 E55
why is there such a problem with blown engines? why say one is better than the other?
"put a supercharger on a bmw engine and we'll see who wins" crap has no point. put 2 more cylinders on a 55 car, and we'll see who wins.
bmw decides to tweak out their motors to the near limits. great for the track. one problem - i don't like waiting to reach my "good rpms" or having to switch down a couple of gears to do a pass on the roads. that's why i decided on my car. of course the m5 sounded real tempting and was my other choice for a car. but after all was said and done, the E stood out to be the new choice for me. of course i knew that m would counteract the E55. i know that there will be faster sedans in the future. I'd rather live now and own the most pleasing engine that will literally **** on any current M out there. i would love to see how the new m5 will compete with the E on the expressway......bikes seem to be the only problem for me
will i look into a new m5? probably............once this new model passes with it's fugly lines.
i used to love BMW and hate MB. I never liked the look of the older MB's due to their flat lines. Now, I still love BMW, but I have grown a great appreciation for MB with their recent lineup starting with the w210. Lets just say don't be so quick to knock down the new MB's calling them old people cars until you really get to drive one.......
"put a supercharger on a bmw engine and we'll see who wins" crap has no point. put 2 more cylinders on a 55 car, and we'll see who wins.
bmw decides to tweak out their motors to the near limits. great for the track. one problem - i don't like waiting to reach my "good rpms" or having to switch down a couple of gears to do a pass on the roads. that's why i decided on my car. of course the m5 sounded real tempting and was my other choice for a car. but after all was said and done, the E stood out to be the new choice for me. of course i knew that m would counteract the E55. i know that there will be faster sedans in the future. I'd rather live now and own the most pleasing engine that will literally **** on any current M out there. i would love to see how the new m5 will compete with the E on the expressway......bikes seem to be the only problem for me
will i look into a new m5? probably............once this new model passes with it's fugly lines.
i used to love BMW and hate MB. I never liked the look of the older MB's due to their flat lines. Now, I still love BMW, but I have grown a great appreciation for MB with their recent lineup starting with the w210. Lets just say don't be so quick to knock down the new MB's calling them old people cars until you really get to drive one.......
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Originally posted by anerbe
Lets just say don't be so quick to knock down the new MB's calling them old people cars until you really get to drive one.......
Lets just say don't be so quick to knock down the new MB's calling them old people cars until you really get to drive one.......
Hmm, can't find it, mainly because of my lack of decent keywords, but here's something to ponder.
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...sl55+AND+track
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N/A
Originally posted by FInality
There is NOTHING more reliable than MB trannies and engines, even Japanese car makers hve trouble matching the reliability that MB puts out.
There is NOTHING more reliable than MB trannies and engines, even Japanese car makers hve trouble matching the reliability that MB puts out.
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996 Turbo
Originally posted by Pbglas
I think you may be right. But what are you basing your conclusion on. How are you reading the results?
I think you may be right. But what are you basing your conclusion on. How are you reading the results?
Basically their PR person doesn't call it a crisis yet but the blurb did also mention mechanical reliability (fit and finish are a different matter). I remember looking at a used CL600 3 weeks ago and the quality was terrible compared to our 2002 S320, very few of the center consoles pieces actually lined up as well as they should have been hinges had too much free movement so you physically had to align the door properly., I was actually shocked at how bad it was, good to know that they did a lot of work for interior furnishings during that period though. Our S320 only has one small interior defect which I'm hoping they'll fix free of charge when I take it to the dealership in a few weeks.
Kain where exactly do you get this information from, perhaps I should take you for a drive and we'll count the number of times I can launch perfectly without the car dropping into neutral.
I must ask why such a disdain for Mercedes? Perhaps you'd prefer E46fanatics.com, bimmer.org, or M5board.com if you wish to bash Mercedes all day long please join their ranks they seem to do it on an hourly basis and I'm sure they wouldn't mind someone singing with the choir.
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From: Atlanta
2004 S 600
I've always had a simple rule to looking at the quality of an engine. That is torque rating % over HP.....torque means how much can the engine handle in terms of stress and how effectively it will move initial and ongoing load. It costs more to engineer and build a engine that has impressive torque ratings. If you build an engine to higher torque ratings it means a much longer life since engine is speced to handle a higher stress level. BTW, MB has always built a stronger engine than BMW.
That being said BMW has made fine engines for the "racer" meaning "revvy" which is what you want when you're in the twisties or on the track. Back in the mid 80's I had a 745i which was turbo from the factory.....so both companies have gone back and forth in this realm.
I just got a 2004 Range Rover with a 282HP BMW engine that was specially engineered for the RR to have 330 ft/lb of torque....it's a great engine.
BTW, my other car is a 2001 S600......a "torque" monster!
That being said BMW has made fine engines for the "racer" meaning "revvy" which is what you want when you're in the twisties or on the track. Back in the mid 80's I had a 745i which was turbo from the factory.....so both companies have gone back and forth in this realm.
I just got a 2004 Range Rover with a 282HP BMW engine that was specially engineered for the RR to have 330 ft/lb of torque....it's a great engine.
BTW, my other car is a 2001 S600......a "torque" monster!
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N/A
Originally posted by FInality
Kain where exactly do you get this information from, perhaps I should take you for a drive and we'll count the number of times I can launch perfectly without the car dropping into neutral.
Kain where exactly do you get this information from, perhaps I should take you for a drive and we'll count the number of times I can launch perfectly without the car dropping into neutral.
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From: Alpharetta, GA
2003 C32
Originally posted by FInality
I must ask why such a disdain for Mercedes? Perhaps you'd prefer E46fanatics.com, bimmer.org, or M5board.com if you wish to bash Mercedes all day long please join their ranks they seem to do it on an hourly basis and I'm sure they wouldn't mind someone singing with the choir. [/B]
I must ask why such a disdain for Mercedes? Perhaps you'd prefer E46fanatics.com, bimmer.org, or M5board.com if you wish to bash Mercedes all day long please join their ranks they seem to do it on an hourly basis and I'm sure they wouldn't mind someone singing with the choir. [/B]
He used to go on and on about Audis, until every single one of his points was rebuffed. Not that this was an accomplishment; anyone who can control their drool can out-think the child.
Now he's moved on to trying to run up the BMW flag.
He is an inferior, and should be treated as such.
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N/A
Originally posted by AlpharettaC32
Because he's a contrarian, that's why. He doesn't even own a car, just talks about his daddy's all day long.
He used to go on and on about Audis, until every single one of his points was rebuffed. Not that this was an accomplishment; anyone who can control their drool can out-think the child.
Now he's moved on to trying to run up the BMW flag.
He is an inferior, and should be treated as such.
Because he's a contrarian, that's why. He doesn't even own a car, just talks about his daddy's all day long.
He used to go on and on about Audis, until every single one of his points was rebuffed. Not that this was an accomplishment; anyone who can control their drool can out-think the child.
Now he's moved on to trying to run up the BMW flag.
He is an inferior, and should be treated as such.
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Originally posted by EiknujZneb
Whoa whoa whoa... completely not true.
Compare the number of blown engines between the m3 and the c32.. there goes youre "more stress" theory...
Whoa whoa whoa... completely not true.
Compare the number of blown engines between the m3 and the c32.. there goes youre "more stress" theory...
I think that most people WILL agree that on the a Forced Inducted engine will have more stress than a NA engine.
