Kain

LOL! Show me a CLK55 AMG beating a M5 on the track, or even a drag race! LOL! And there is no way an E55 AMG will beat the current M5 on the track.

Just wait for the NA 500-550 hp V10 engine that will be in the new M5 and M6. And don't forget the NA 400 hp V8 engine going in the next M3 and M4.

bazza

Does anybody actually believe the BHP quoted by manufacturers?
This months Performance BMW has a dyno shoot out with E30's.

I'm not picking on BMW's, just don't have any dyno results of MB's
1st car - 3.2 E36 M3 Evo engine with 6 speed box, custom exhaust and Pipercross filter - 280bhp and 226lb/ft

2nd - bored out to 2.7,Griffin motorsport head, Schrick 284/272 cam,6 branch manifold,bored throttle body,MAF conversion,Scorpion exhaust,ITG filter - 210/205

3rd - 325i with Alpina chip, 6 branch manifold and a K&N - 154/162

4th - 325i chipped,FSE powerboost valve,K&N and custom exhaust - 164/152

5th - 325i BBR chip, Magnex exhaust, and K&N - 172/174

Ok so these cars have a few miles under their belts, but as the 325i claims to have 170bhp and the M3 Evo, 321 bhp, it shows that you can't compare cars on paper.It's also good as it lets you know what works and what doesn't. i.e. BBR chip appears to be better than an Alpina.

There was a "stock" engined 325i for comparison - made 170/171 - I think he wasn't telling us about something! Bet it made the guys with all the toys sick!!

On a similar note, which is quicker on a twisty road, wet and dry,
A4 quattro or 3 series?



Autocar tested them and the BMW was slightly quicker in the dry, but MUCH quicker in the wet!!



Bazza

eyuan23

Both cars are getting the most power out of the engine using different techniques. No one is better than the other. And I also hate that double standard. Anything Porsche does is alright , but MB gets flamed for using the "p*ssy way."

And I will dissagree with you on the AMG 55 N/A. The BMW M5 will be at least equal if not faster. The V8 Kompressor will be a different story. And btw, just talking about straight line.

Caliz_Finest

I meant the ones w/ a kompressor, I should have been more specific

Benz Structure

I forgot who's pic. this is but, I found it amusing. I'm not knocking BMW cause I do own one myself and I'm not saying Mercedes is a better car. I do own MB's and BMW's and I like them both.

dswildfire

wow, then i guess the chevy LS6 and LT5 engines are nothing to you too. and actually, without the supercharger, the engine is still an engine. nothing more, nothing less. the fact that the M5 engine is 5 years old and makes 394 hp, doesnt make it a better engine. it just makes it a 5 year old, good engine, with 394 hp. when you're done trying to somehow prove that a BMW N/A engine is somehow better than all others, let me know, we'll have some more interesting conversations. in the meantime i'd rather take a N/A sr20de wtih 14:1 compression, or a blown ecotec.

FInality

Ask and you shall receive.

Pity you didn't make a wager on that little statement of yours.

vraa

I can't resist.

own3d

karl k

That's why I maintain:

The 2002 CLK55 AMG Coupe is the best car ever produced since Karl Benz
patented the world's first motorcar in 1886, registered his patent DRP
37435, which is considered as the official birth certificate of the first motor
car!

Kain

Mercedes-Benz more reliable than BMW? LMAO! Good one!

FInality

If you read the survey results properly you'd note that MB was given high marks for Engine and transmission reliability. We all know the rest of MBs quality has fallen off a cliff - though its not as bad as some members put it out to be. There are a lot of minor issues that go into the survey as well eg faulty window switches, minor electrical issues etc note it NEVER takes into the account the severity of the problem just that there is an issue.

There is NOTHING more reliable than MB trannies and engines, even Japanese car makers hve trouble matching the reliability that MB puts out.

Pbglas

I think you may be right. But what are you basing your conclusion on. How are you reading the results?

karl k

The survey only proves one thing:

The idea of PERFECTION is an IMPERFECT idea.

Lexus - ranked #1 - had 163 defects, more than half of MB's score.

Those #s are averages, - all models lumped together.

The Alabama manufactured M truck is notorious for its defects, and so are all new models introduced by MB.

The AMG models are exceptional. That's why I maintain:

The 2002 CLK55 AMG Coupe is the best car ever produced since Karl Benz
patented the world's first motorcar in 1886, registered his patent DRP
37435, which is considered as the official birth certificate of the first motor
car!

vraa

Normally I'd go along with the Lexus Number 1, but that's not the point here. You have to take into account the M crap, err truck which is, well Karl took the words out of my mouth. Notorious for problems!

Let me think of which bimmers are new. Thinking, nope can't think of any that the public actually wants to buy.

anerbe

why is there such a problem with blown engines? why say one is better than the other?

"put a supercharger on a bmw engine and we'll see who wins" crap has no point. put 2 more cylinders on a 55 car, and we'll see who wins.

bmw decides to tweak out their motors to the near limits. great for the track. one problem - i don't like waiting to reach my "good rpms" or having to switch down a couple of gears to do a pass on the roads. that's why i decided on my car. of course the m5 sounded real tempting and was my other choice for a car. but after all was said and done, the E stood out to be the new choice for me. of course i knew that m would counteract the E55. i know that there will be faster sedans in the future. I'd rather live now and own the most pleasing engine that will literally **** on any current M out there. i would love to see how the new m5 will compete with the E on the expressway......bikes seem to be the only problem for me

will i look into a new m5? probably............once this new model passes with it's fugly lines.

i used to love BMW and hate MB. I never liked the look of the older MB's due to their flat lines. Now, I still love BMW, but I have grown a great appreciation for MB with their recent lineup starting with the w210. Lets just say don't be so quick to knock down the new MB's calling them old people cars until you really get to drive one.......

vraa

Brilliantly said. I'll find the link where it compares (albiet not M vs AMG, but you'll see) a R230 55 and a Z8.

Hmm, can't find it, mainly because of my lack of decent keywords, but here's something to ponder.

https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...sl55+AND+track

Kain

LMAO! Do you have any idea of how many people have reported that the transmission went into NEUTRAL while flooring the car? You call that RELIABLE??

FInality

I read a report in Forbes or one of the other magazines where they did a small blurb about MB in general and how they fell off in reliability.

Basically their PR person doesn't call it a crisis yet but the blurb did also mention mechanical reliability (fit and finish are a different matter). I remember looking at a used CL600 3 weeks ago and the quality was terrible compared to our 2002 S320, very few of the center consoles pieces actually lined up as well as they should have been hinges had too much free movement so you physically had to align the door properly., I was actually shocked at how bad it was, good to know that they did a lot of work for interior furnishings during that period though. Our S320 only has one small interior defect which I'm hoping they'll fix free of charge when I take it to the dealership in a few weeks.

Kain where exactly do you get this information from, perhaps I should take you for a drive and we'll count the number of times I can launch perfectly without the car dropping into neutral.

I must ask why such a disdain for Mercedes? Perhaps you'd prefer E46fanatics.com, bimmer.org, or M5board.com if you wish to bash Mercedes all day long please join their ranks they seem to do it on an hourly basis and I'm sure they wouldn't mind someone singing with the choir.

MercManiac

I've always had a simple rule to looking at the quality of an engine. That is torque rating % over HP.....torque means how much can the engine handle in terms of stress and how effectively it will move initial and ongoing load. It costs more to engineer and build a engine that has impressive torque ratings. If you build an engine to higher torque ratings it means a much longer life since engine is speced to handle a higher stress level. BTW, MB has always built a stronger engine than BMW.

That being said BMW has made fine engines for the "racer" meaning "revvy" which is what you want when you're in the twisties or on the track. Back in the mid 80's I had a 745i which was turbo from the factory.....so both companies have gone back and forth in this realm.

I just got a 2004 Range Rover with a 282HP BMW engine that was specially engineered for the RR to have 330 ft/lb of torque....it's a great engine.

BTW, my other car is a 2001 S600......a "torque" monster!

Kain

Do a search on this forum and you'll see.

AlpharettaC32

Because he's a contrarian, that's why. He doesn't even own a car, just talks about his daddy's all day long.

He used to go on and on about Audis, until every single one of his points was rebuffed. Not that this was an accomplishment; anyone who can control their drool can out-think the child.

Now he's moved on to trying to run up the BMW flag.

He is an inferior, and should be treated as such.

Kain

I don't own a car because I DON'T HAVE A LICENCE yet. I just turned 18. But I my first car will be a 2004 BMW 325i with manual transmission which I will have next summer.

Caliz_Finest

kain get a life

bmms8

i think we should all say the same thing over and over, because kain does the same..so...

kain get a life

TeKNiC330

I believe that M3's engines are blowing up because of a design or material defect. You cannot determine "more stress" by looking at engines blowing up.

I think that most people WILL agree that on the a Forced Inducted engine will have more stress than a NA engine.