AlpharettaC32

More talk about engines that don't exist.

Why am I reminded of the Juvenile song "Bling Bling" where he talks about having a "Mercedes S700 V14"?

karl k

Very impressive, WOW!

"Eaton-supplied
mechanical supercharger. It exerts a
maximum pressure of 0.9bar, and
has two Teflon- coated aluminium
shafts, rotating at 23,000rpm, that
push 1,850kg/h of air into the eight
combustion chambers."


PS
...to be on the safe side and for longevity, -

350 hp without supercharger suits me fine!

ajayz

Most powerful engine has to goto Mercedes..the twin-turbo V12 can kick some major ***. But the best engine design and such has to goto BMW..they just get more power N/A showing superior engineering- they can get more power than MB if they just added a supercharger; but I don't know why they won't do that.

FInality

Dont forget the already made engine of the CLK GTR and GTR Clubsport. Those engines came out in what 1997?

I'll keep mentioning this till someone gets the point....

ANY big car maker can push an engine to the limits 120 bhp/liter no big deal. 300 bhp/liter is also easily done the question comes down to reliability. The M3 engine is a prime example of this, its pushed to its ragged edge and components started to fail, you also have another issue of where power is generated do you want a lot of low end torque useful for street driving or do you want a car that produces most of its power at the top end like an S2000 does where its abilities shine on the track but you need to beat the engine up to have fun with it for daily use.

TeKNiC330

FI puts more stress on engines than N/A.

BTW BMW does not need force induction to make the same amount of power as mercedes or any other car manufactuers out there.

FInality

Really? So what engine do they produce today or in the future that pumps out the horespower of the 55 Supercharged or 65 series engines? If they manage to pump a 5 liter V10 pumping 500 bhp+ then the engine will lack the torque levels we are accustomed to having with the M5.

You are right FI does put more stress on the engine BUT its no where NEAR as stressful as what BMW has done with the M3s straight six.

AlpharettaC32

So the turbocharger found on the 2002tii was installed by either mischievous dockworkers or BMW dealers?

Steve Clark

2002 tii's,while being fun little cars,were never turbocharged from the factory.

AlpharettaC32

My bad, it was called the "2002 Turbo."

http://www.bmwworld.com/models/newclass/2002_turbo.htm

As for it being last century or not, what does that matter? Every manufacturer goes to the well of forced induction at one point or another. For any of their fanboys to deride forced induction as somehow "not real" is a prime example of hypocrisy.

Kain

All these AMG engines are because of the supercharger. That's it. What happens when you take away the supercharger? You get pretty much a normal E500 engine.

On the other hand, BMW makes totally different engines for its M cars. This shows the commitment BMW has. Mercedes-Benz basically takes the E500/S500 engine, slaps in a supercharger and says "Hey, this is our new performance engine."

What engine that pumps out the 55 AMG engine? The new upcoming engine in the next BMW M5. This is a V10 NA engine developing atleast 500 hp. Now, image what would happen if BMW slapped in a supercharger/turbo in that??

karl k

"Now, image what would happen if BMW slapped in a supercharger/turbo in that??"


It would convert insanity into trash!

AlpharettaC32

Considering the forces at work already inside of the modern M engine?

The header would achieve low earth orbit

TeKNiC330

maybe there was a reason to why they STOPED producing Force Induction?

TeKNiC330

Remember the E36 M3's? Mainly people have Turboed those and got some seriously crazy power outta them. Why didn't BMW put it in from the factory, maybe cause it was not needed for the E36 M3 to compete with the C36 or C43.

I doubt the stress put on the E46 M3 is more than the stress put on the C32 with its supercharger. Isn't the C32's engine just a C320's with a supercharger? Put a supercharger in a 330, then you'll have the same results.

FInality

The 55 series engine is actually an N/A 55 series engine just like those found in the CLK55s it is not the same engine as a normal 500 series engine. They have strengthened certain components of the engine but other than that its very similar to the N/A 55 series engines.

Yes BMW makes totally unique engines for the M series but they use that technology as a development platform for future tech ie the Double Vanos system - which I might add was not that reliable until recently.

bazza

Just thought I would add my thoughts to this discussion.

I remember reading an article where they took some performance cars onto the autobahn to time them between two points from a standing start.

From memory the cars included:

E39 M5 standard but derestricted
E39 M5 B10 Alpina
W210 Brabus EV12
W210 E55 deresricted
Lotus Carlton - grandpa of perf. saloons
An Audi - can't remember but poss. RS4

The EV12 walked it obviously, but more importantly both BMW engines blew up at around 165mph. The rep from Brabus who was present said that BMW engines were know to be on their limits from the factory and that BMW built them to withstand very little more than the stresses that the rev/speed limiter would allow.

I'n not knocking Beemers, My dad had an E34 530i years ago and I loved driving it when I could, but the engineering doesn't come close to a MB.

Also, why do BMW drivers go on about the DTM and other sporting events and portray MB as an old persons car, when in reality MB are the most successful manufacturer in DTM and 190's gave the immortal E30 M3 a lesson in racing when they raced each other


Bazza

TeKNiC330

Something I dont get.....How could a stock M5 blow up its engine if it goes past its speed limiter? If i remember correctly the Euro-spec M5 do not have speed limiters. Even with the BMW 330s, a few guys that i know have chipped thier cars and have gone up to 160mph without any problem. Also if you watched the gumball 3000 thing , you see a few M5's that are going 160mph+ and do you see their engines blowing up?

Also, take a mercedes C320 and BMW 330i to the track. Both sport models, who do you think will win?

bazza

They have speed limiters set at 155mph, they same as most other manufacturers, Gentlemans agreement that started in Germany I think.
I don't know how the engines blew up, just posting what I read. Don't know if it was a coincidence or whatever.

I presume the gearing on the M5 was such that it was nearly red lining at 155mph. I have not driven an M5 so I could not say if this is the case, but other BMW's that I have driven seem low geared compared to the equivalent MB. This probably contributes to the sporty nature and feel of the cars.


I agree about the C320 and the 330i straight from the factory.
I love the way the BMW feels sportier to drive, but you have to admit when it comes to Motorsport, MB has been more successful.
If only they could apply some of this to cars like the C-Class to make even non AMG models a bit more exciting to drive.


Bazza

EiknujZneb

Whoa whoa whoa... completely not true.

Compare the number of blown engines between the m3 and the c32.. there goes youre "more stress" theory...

EiknujZneb

All these BMW engines are because of their high compression. That's it. What happens when you lower the compression? You get pretty much a normal 3 series inline 6.

What you said was so inredibly stupid i think my IQ just dropped a couple points....

Try slapping a supercharger on the e500 and running .9 bar, then tell me how many minutes it took to melt a piston.

Please, if you don't know nothing about the 55k engine, don't post about it.

EiknujZneb

I love you man

vraa

[rant]

Kain, as a fellow youngin I had to stand next to your crap and take it. Only out of respect. However I have completley lost it with this post. Not only do you bad mouth Mercedes on a Mercedes site, you incorrectly do it as well. Also you show the worst side of BMW fan boys, the ones without any knowledge. Please continue on rambling your non-sense for I as one sure do enjoy seeing everyone else correct your mistakes.

[/rant]

You take away the supercharger for an E55 and your left with some 370hp (I think i'm way off, 349 is for the 32's, and 362 is for the 55's right?) mind blowing horsies. Oh yeah, and you get a pretty nice car to boot!

That has got to be the highlight of my week! Thanks!

vraa

The C32 runs at 13.5lbs/ft or something like that..

Kain

You see! The engine is NOTHING without the supercharger. BMW's M5 engine (which is about 5 years old) makes 400 hp!

Caliz_Finest

why do people keep saying the supercharger is cheating? its not like youre building the engine yourself. youre just going to the dealership and buying whats there. on the bmw forums people are always *****ing about the fact that AMG uses superchargers but they love the porsche twin turbos, key words here are twin turbo... double standards

any 55 AMG will **** on any M series car and during the actual race it doesent matter if its supercharged or not, you still got your *** kicked. I bet their really embarrased when that old mans car kicks the crap outta their M5