Banned at Club Lexus!!!
11-13-2003, 08:47 AM
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Fiscal Neo Con Express
Banned at Club Lexus!!!
hey guys,
while the MBworld forums were down i spent some time posting
over at Club Lexus. it seems that some of my posts were not appreciated. one of them was even deleted.
it seems that after posting sales figures for MB and Lexus one of the moderators and some of the other members became agitated!
in a nutshell i basically questioned Lexus's position in relation to Mercedes Benz. basically saying that Lexus is not Mercedes Benz equal mainly because of the lack of depth in their product lines and that fact that only 36000 true Lexus brand autombiles have been sold year to date(i excluded rebadged toyotas). keep in mind that i posted these opinions in the "Car Chat Forum". this forum is supposed to be an open forum for all automotive topics.
it seems that instead of rebutting or engaging in an honest and open discussion the moderator felt the need to ridicule me and then lock me out from posting. i should also add that i never insulted or attacked any other opinions. also no foul language was used.
i have since sent an email to the administrator of Club Lexus explaining my position and dissatisfaction with their forum moderator. their own moderator didn't even follow the rules set by Club Lexus. i have yet to recieve a response from the administrator.
it seems that "censorship" is alive and well at Club Lexus. if you don't post something that is complimentary of a Lexus product they don't want to hear your opinion. i was being accused of "trolling".....strange because i have been posting at Club Lexus for months.
so guys if you get a chance jump over to Club Lexus and check out my posts. they are in the "Car Chat" section. let me know what you think. if i was out of line or
was the moderator overly sensitive to an opposing opinion?
below 1sicklex(one of Club Lexus fair and balanced moderators) posted the links to these posts. ......thanks Mike.
while the MBworld forums were down i spent some time posting
over at Club Lexus. it seems that some of my posts were not appreciated. one of them was even deleted.
it seems that after posting sales figures for MB and Lexus one of the moderators and some of the other members became agitated!
in a nutshell i basically questioned Lexus's position in relation to Mercedes Benz. basically saying that Lexus is not Mercedes Benz equal mainly because of the lack of depth in their product lines and that fact that only 36000 true Lexus brand autombiles have been sold year to date(i excluded rebadged toyotas). keep in mind that i posted these opinions in the "Car Chat Forum". this forum is supposed to be an open forum for all automotive topics.
it seems that instead of rebutting or engaging in an honest and open discussion the moderator felt the need to ridicule me and then lock me out from posting. i should also add that i never insulted or attacked any other opinions. also no foul language was used.
i have since sent an email to the administrator of Club Lexus explaining my position and dissatisfaction with their forum moderator. their own moderator didn't even follow the rules set by Club Lexus. i have yet to recieve a response from the administrator.
it seems that "censorship" is alive and well at Club Lexus. if you don't post something that is complimentary of a Lexus product they don't want to hear your opinion. i was being accused of "trolling".....strange because i have been posting at Club Lexus for months.
so guys if you get a chance jump over to Club Lexus and check out my posts. they are in the "Car Chat" section. let me know what you think. if i was out of line or
was the moderator overly sensitive to an opposing opinion?
below 1sicklex(one of Club Lexus fair and balanced moderators) posted the links to these posts. ......thanks Mike.
Last edited by S55inPA; 11-13-2003 at 03:14 PM.
11-13-2003, 09:37 AM
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2002 CLK 55 AMG Coupe ;)
I visited yesterday the Miami Beach annual International Auto Show.
While Lexus had all of their quality vehicles on display, and reasonably priced, it struck me that their flagship sedan is an old vintage MB S-class wannabee:
Well-built, but totally lacking originality; -- copy-cat from bow to stern!!
While Lexus had all of their quality vehicles on display, and reasonably priced, it struck me that their flagship sedan is an old vintage MB S-class wannabee:
Well-built, but totally lacking originality; -- copy-cat from bow to stern!!
11-13-2003, 01:42 PM
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Lexus GS 450h
11-13-2003, 04:46 PM
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Not a Benzer anymore
ITS SO HARD TO DISCUSS SOMETHING LIKE THIS
If the Lexus people are happy in their world, and us Mercs are happy in ours (regardless if our world was down for a few weeks), it does seem like one is trying to agitate them for no reason.
Why go over there, or to any other car board, and try to make those folks feel bad about their cars?
This reminds me of the Simpson's episode where Nelson makes fun of a tall guy driving a small car and...
Very Tall Man: (lifts Nelson out of the sewer by his head) Do you find something comical about my appearance when I'm driving my automobile?
Nelson: Yeah.
Very Tall Man: Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. (turns Nelson to face the car)This was the largest auto that I could afford. Am I therefore to be made the subject of fun?
Nelson: I guess so.
(The tall guy forces Nelson to march down Main Street, pants down.)
(He drives slowly behind the ashamed bully)
Very Tall Man: Hey, everybody! Look at this, it's that boy who laughs at everyone. Let's laugh at him!
Crowd: HA-ha!
Why go over there, or to any other car board, and try to make those folks feel bad about their cars?
This reminds me of the Simpson's episode where Nelson makes fun of a tall guy driving a small car and...
Very Tall Man: (lifts Nelson out of the sewer by his head) Do you find something comical about my appearance when I'm driving my automobile?
Nelson: Yeah.
Very Tall Man: Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. (turns Nelson to face the car)This was the largest auto that I could afford. Am I therefore to be made the subject of fun?
Nelson: I guess so.
(The tall guy forces Nelson to march down Main Street, pants down.)
(He drives slowly behind the ashamed bully)
Very Tall Man: Hey, everybody! Look at this, it's that boy who laughs at everyone. Let's laugh at him!
Crowd: HA-ha!
11-13-2003, 06:36 PM
#5
I don't care about overall sales, I care about quality. I wonder if Lexus has problems with harmonic balancers, wiring harnesses, throttle actuators, head gaskets that blow out at 55k miles, ovp relays etc etc...Mercedes has some work to do and needs to get it's quality back to where it once was. I like all kinds of cars for different reasons. I love the way a Benz feels, but if they are too much of a headache, I can understand why somebody would go over to Japanese.
11-13-2003, 10:44 PM
#7
Re: ITS SO HARD TO DISCUSS SOMETHING LIKE THIS
Originally posted by EddieGTP
If the Lexus people are happy in their world, and us Mercs are happy in ours (regardless if our world was down for a few weeks), it does seem like one is trying to agitate them for no reason.
If the Lexus people are happy in their world, and us Mercs are happy in ours (regardless if our world was down for a few weeks), it does seem like one is trying to agitate them for no reason.
I wonder if Lexus has problems with harmonic balancers, wiring harnesses, throttle actuators, head gaskets that blow out at 55k miles, ovp relays etc etc
It's called a Jaguar! (Sorry I couldn't resist!)
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11-13-2003, 11:13 PM
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E320
S55inPA, you shouldn't go around to other people's forums and trash their cars like that. You know they won't like it. It's like if some Lexus guy registered on MBWorld just to make fun of the reliability ratings of MB.
11-14-2003, 03:17 AM
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Fiscal Neo Con Express
hey guys,
i can see where some of my posts could have rubbed people the wrong way. i enjoy vigorous back and forth discussions...esp. on cars.!!!
keep in mind i've posted there for a while. i truly am a fan of the LS430 and i'm very interested to see what the next GS will look like and what kind of performance it will have. i just don't see why the topic of sales volume would make everyone so angry. Lexus is still a relatively new brand. i would doubt that most people would perceive Lexus as only having 4 true cars lines with only 36000 units sold to date this year. rebadging plays a large part in the size and sales volume of Lexus. rebadging is a great way to expand your car line...financially and by brand awareness. rebadged or not a good car is a good car. i just think this is one of the things that makes MB special. an MB is an MB.
i can see where some of my posts could have rubbed people the wrong way. i enjoy vigorous back and forth discussions...esp. on cars.!!!
keep in mind i've posted there for a while. i truly am a fan of the LS430 and i'm very interested to see what the next GS will look like and what kind of performance it will have. i just don't see why the topic of sales volume would make everyone so angry. Lexus is still a relatively new brand. i would doubt that most people would perceive Lexus as only having 4 true cars lines with only 36000 units sold to date this year. rebadging plays a large part in the size and sales volume of Lexus. rebadging is a great way to expand your car line...financially and by brand awareness. rebadged or not a good car is a good car. i just think this is one of the things that makes MB special. an MB is an MB.
Last edited by S55inPA; 11-14-2003 at 03:24 AM.
11-14-2003, 05:34 AM
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2000 W210 E55->2003 R230 SL500->2004 W211 E55->2007 997TT+2007 E63->2010 GLK350->2012 E550 4matic
Good job S55inPA
Talking about immature and inexperienced moderators!
Instead of controlling the situation, turning the table around to encourage intellectual discussion, the 'moderator' completely fails and makes an absolute fool of himself.
It's rather sad seeing how defensive and uptight some Lexus owners can be.
Come to think of it, I think it's absolutely your fault, it's not what you write but what you call yourself. Even if you don't say a word, they would start disliking you for your superior car!
Instead of controlling the situation, turning the table around to encourage intellectual discussion, the 'moderator' completely fails and makes an absolute fool of himself.
It's rather sad seeing how defensive and uptight some Lexus owners can be.
Come to think of it, I think it's absolutely your fault, it's not what you write but what you call yourself. Even if you don't say a word, they would start disliking you for your superior car!
11-14-2003, 08:46 AM
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hi w210,
i thought the same thing. i was wondering "what if my sign in signature was different." why not be honest though. i thought the moderator should have let it go also. he sent me a pm and said that he was recieving complaints from other members. i've been bashed silly just recently at mbworld....i don't complain at all. i prefer to have a more vigorous discussion...one that's not so sterile.
i thought the same thing. i was wondering "what if my sign in signature was different." why not be honest though. i thought the moderator should have let it go also. he sent me a pm and said that he was recieving complaints from other members. i've been bashed silly just recently at mbworld....i don't complain at all. i prefer to have a more vigorous discussion...one that's not so sterile.
11-14-2003, 10:50 AM
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Fiscal Neo Con Express
hi mr xristo,
i don't think Lexus are overpriced toyotas.
they are very nice cars. the main point i am trying
to make is that MB is a much more established
brand. all of MB's vehicles are unique only to MB.
right now MB and BMW imho are still well ahead
of Lexus, Infiniti,Acura, and Audi.
i don't think Lexus are overpriced toyotas.
they are very nice cars. the main point i am trying
to make is that MB is a much more established
brand. all of MB's vehicles are unique only to MB.
right now MB and BMW imho are still well ahead
of Lexus, Infiniti,Acura, and Audi.
11-14-2003, 12:39 PM
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1995 Jaguar XJS Convertible
Originally posted by S55inPA
hi mr xristo,
i don't think Lexus are overpriced toyotas.
they are very nice cars. the main point i am trying
to make is that MB is a much more established
brand. all of MB's vehicles are unique only to MB.
right now MB and BMW imho are still well ahead
of Lexus, Infiniti,Acura, and Audi.
hi mr xristo,
i don't think Lexus are overpriced toyotas.
they are very nice cars. the main point i am trying
to make is that MB is a much more established
brand. all of MB's vehicles are unique only to MB.
right now MB and BMW imho are still well ahead
of Lexus, Infiniti,Acura, and Audi.
11-14-2003, 12:55 PM
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Not a Benzer anymore
Discretion...
"Discretion is the better part of valour..."
Who actually benefits from the sales information? Shareholders? While there is competition between any two companies, sales figures can go either way to a buyer:
1 - I want to be like everyone else
2 - I want to be more more unique.
Since I only have 1 Benz, I don't care how many cars MB sells now, as long as it doesn't interfere with me nor my car.
Ideally, the less cars MB sells, the less cars in the service shop = quicker appointment times. [At least 3 weeks for NYC service centers
]
Question: Is the Crossfire unique to MB or DC?
To end on a saying... "Don't gloat on ... "
Who actually benefits from the sales information? Shareholders? While there is competition between any two companies, sales figures can go either way to a buyer:
1 - I want to be like everyone else
2 - I want to be more more unique.
Since I only have 1 Benz, I don't care how many cars MB sells now, as long as it doesn't interfere with me nor my car.
Ideally, the less cars MB sells, the less cars in the service shop = quicker appointment times. [At least 3 weeks for NYC service centers
]Question: Is the Crossfire unique to MB or DC?
To end on a saying... "Don't gloat on ... "
11-14-2003, 09:33 PM
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Originally posted by davar
just a couple questions...
1. Could you post a source for those sales figures that you acquired?
2. What car is the RX based off of that makes it not Lexus-only?
Thanks.
just a couple questions...
1. Could you post a source for those sales figures that you acquired?
2. What car is the RX based off of that makes it not Lexus-only?
Thanks.
The RX is based on a MODIFIED Camry platform.
-----------------------------------------------
S55inPA, I've read many of your posts on CLUBLEXUS, and I must say that some of them have been very HARSH and irrational (no offense intended).
WHAT THE IN HELL DOES "LEXUS-ONLY" MEAN? Is this some term you decided to make up?
Toyota is LEXUS. Who cares if the ES and RX share Camry platforms? The Camry is the BEST-SELLING passenger sedan on the road. Why mess with success?
You call Lexus unestablished? In just 12 YEARS, Lexus outsold every LUXURY CARMAKER! You argued Lexus is not-as-established as Mercedes because it's "LEXUS-only" sales are lower than Mercedes? I don't know if you took debate classes back in high-school, but that isn't proving anything.
When you make irrational posts degrading Lexus' without valid reason, naturally these Lexus guys (some of the best and most mature people on any forum I've seen) are going to feel offended and you foster a general animosity in them towards all MB owners.
I love Mercedes cars (I own one), but Lexus has earned and deserves RESPECT. My 1995 ES300 has well over 225,000 miles. For the past 9 years I've done NOTHING except routine maintenance and it has outlived many of my German and Italian cars. With that type of reliability and peace-of-mind, who cares if I'm buying a Toyota-based design?
Peace out.
11-14-2003, 09:49 PM
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Sorry, don't want to prolong this issue much longer, but here is an example of S55inPA's flawed analysis which can be found at this link and is posted below:
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/show...hreadid=101405
- excerpt from page->
now onto SUVS
Lexus
RX........66015
GX........21846
LX.........6023
total Lexus only suv..........0
total all SUV......93884
MB
M..........21942
G...........1361
total Mercedes only suv.....23303
total all suv..........23303
You stated that Lexus sold ZERO "Lexus only" SUVs.
Without argument, the GX470 IS ITS OWN SUV. It's not based on any Toyota. That's an additional 21,846 units, nearly equaling total MB SUV sales.
The RX330 does NOT HAVE a TOYOTA twin. Add 66,015 sales.
You are correct in one case, the LX is directly derived from the Landcruiser.
Many of the CL guys were aware of these flaws but decided it was not worth their time to respond.
Just want to set the record straight so Lexus and Mercedes owners can live in harmony
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/show...hreadid=101405
- excerpt from page->
now onto SUVS
Lexus
RX........66015
GX........21846
LX.........6023
total Lexus only suv..........0
total all SUV......93884
MB
M..........21942
G...........1361
total Mercedes only suv.....23303
total all suv..........23303
You stated that Lexus sold ZERO "Lexus only" SUVs.
Without argument, the GX470 IS ITS OWN SUV. It's not based on any Toyota. That's an additional 21,846 units, nearly equaling total MB SUV sales.
The RX330 does NOT HAVE a TOYOTA twin. Add 66,015 sales.
You are correct in one case, the LX is directly derived from the Landcruiser.
Many of the CL guys were aware of these flaws but decided it was not worth their time to respond.
Just want to set the record straight so Lexus and Mercedes owners can live in harmony
11-14-2003, 10:00 PM
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ok, ok...
the gx470 is the toyota forerunner with a nicer interior...same platform..same engine.
the rx330 is a toyota highlander. the 330 is the newer version that toyota will badge most likely next model year.
so...where was i wrong???
there was nothing flawed in how i totaled these figures.
the point i was trying to make....is that "Lexus" has only 4 unique automobiles to its credit....period!!!!
and guess what...that's ok. if you read my posts on this forum you would realize i wasn't bashing Lexus. i was pointing out that Lexus..the brand has a long way to go to equal Mercedes Benz.
what is so hard to understand.
secondly...what would you think if you were banned from MBworld for the posts you just made? do you get it?
also...Lexus only means ...unique to Lexus. Lexus has built it's brand on quality and rebadging. hey that's ok with me. but what is wrong with noting that?? is it some kind of secret that is offensive?
the gx470 is the toyota forerunner with a nicer interior...same platform..same engine.
the rx330 is a toyota highlander. the 330 is the newer version that toyota will badge most likely next model year.
so...where was i wrong???
there was nothing flawed in how i totaled these figures.
the point i was trying to make....is that "Lexus" has only 4 unique automobiles to its credit....period!!!!
and guess what...that's ok. if you read my posts on this forum you would realize i wasn't bashing Lexus. i was pointing out that Lexus..the brand has a long way to go to equal Mercedes Benz.
what is so hard to understand.
secondly...what would you think if you were banned from MBworld for the posts you just made? do you get it?
also...Lexus only means ...unique to Lexus. Lexus has built it's brand on quality and rebadging. hey that's ok with me. but what is wrong with noting that?? is it some kind of secret that is offensive?
Last edited by S55inPA; 11-14-2003 at 10:03 PM.
11-14-2003, 10:02 PM
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Originally posted by 2003-SL55AMG
the GX470 IS ITS OWN SUV. It's not based on any Toyota.
the GX470 IS ITS OWN SUV. It's not based on any Toyota.
Also, add up the Lexus Cars + Suvs and you get = 186,009 total
Add up MB Cars + Suvs = 159,451 total
I'm not trying to start this into a war in any way shape or form, but rather I am asking you a serious question as to why was the post about MB chasing Lexus when the numbers showed otherwise?
Last edited by davar; 11-14-2003 at 10:26 PM.
