Guest0001

Key word is YOUR OPINION!

I have driven a 330ci before purchasing my C320. There was no comparison. Benz is just too smooth and has that rock solid Luxury feel with a sufficient amount of sport. It's a dream to drive. Period.

The Lexus does not even compare in this segment as it will never have that driving feel of a finely tuned German automobile.

ajayz

Poor Lexus, they just don't have style.

GTR

It would be a bonus though, wouldn't it Mr W210? Having spent a premium price on a premium product, wouldn't you have high expectations about build quality, and even scrutinise the minor details which makes the Mercedes Benz so special? I have to agree that the safety of the Mercedes Benz is unrivalled, but ultimately the best way to be safe is to drive safely. Look at Diana and the S-Class. No matter how safe a car is, it will always find its limits. The injury inflicted upon the occupants also depends on the speed and the angle of impact, amongst many other things which belong to the force of nature.

Having written off an LS400, i was impressed with its safety features and its ability to hold up to large impacts. The police told me that if it wasn't for the car, my family would be rotting underground. After the insurance company paid my write off fee, i immediately bought another one. If a Lexus can hold its own in an accident, i'am pretty confident that the Mercedes will only do better (however sometimes different conditions will be the ultimate judge of the outcome).

I have to agree that the current S-Class feels much more solid and secure than the LS430. Sitting in the S-Class feels like sitting in an airtight bank vault. Whilst the LS430 isn't bad, it just doesn't compare to the S-Class when it comes to the "secure feeling". It really comes down to the price of the car, and what each owner is willing to compromise upon. The LS430 is a very safe car, exceeding many international safety standards. THe Mercedes S-Class is just for added security and for this, you pay a premium price.

W210

Well if Diana put on her seatbelt, she would have lived. The person sitting in FRONT survived the frontal crash simply because he put on a seat belt. A car is only as good as the passengers.

I had witnessed a story about a Lexus accident in Asia. Good friend of mine crashed the LS400 (back then). It was a relatively serious frontal accident and neither airbags deployed and he cut his face quite badly on the steering wheel. Car was totalled but it remained a mystery what went wrong with the airbags. He also had his seatbelts on. He switched to MB afterwards.

Glad to hear your LS430 faired better!

I was framed.

You're pretty ignorant man...

We own a 2002 E320 and a 2001 GS300 so I'm speaking from experience here. Yes the E320 is better than the GS300, but, the GS300 is also better than the E320. To tell you the truth, I would rate the GS300 more highly on a scale than a E320.

INTERIOR
Well I must admit the E320 isn't exactly the most exciting interior in the world. Nor is the GS300... I must admit the GS300 interior is considerably more well made than the E320. I don't know what Lexus (or Toyota if you want to go to that level) does but their plastic feels more luxurious than the E320. There's also less plastic. The interior feels more well made. Both are nicely made but the GS300 beats the E320 badly.

EXTERIOR
I'm not going to comment on exterior because I think both cars look beautiful. These are only opinions though because I know there will always be people out there that won't agree. I'll leave it to your descretion.

QUALITY
So which car is better? As stated above, both have their pros and both have their cons. My GS300 was A LOT cheaper than the E320. If I spent as much money on the GS300 as I did on the E320, the GS300 would be the overall winner. The GS300 has ~35,000 miles and it hasn't had one hiccup *knock on wood* yet. The engine is as smooth as the day I brought her out of the dealership. Yah, it's slower but it's smoother and quieter than the E320. The E320 on the other hand is faster and gives better driver feedback. This is a pro and a con. Do you really want to feel that bump or do you want the whisper quiet cabin? The E320 has also had more failures. While the GS300 has had none, the E320 has gone to the dealership more times than I would like. Gauge this gauge that, light out here, light fuse burn out there, etc.

Also the interior of the E320 does not feel up to par with the GS300 cabin. The E320 even feels cheapish at times with the (over) use of plastics.

I would however, like to comment on how solid the cars feel. While the GS300 is undoubtly better built (feel free to flame) the E320 does feel more solid. I don't know why this is the case because the E320 has been less than solid. However, every knob, every dial and even the way the windows seal makes it feel more well made. However, how things feel does not reflect its true nature. The GS300 knobs feel flimsy at times and the doors lock but do not give you the safe feeling of the E320.

OVERALL
This is my first time buying a Lexus and Mercedes. The reason I bought the GS300 was because I had heard nothing but good about reliability, build quality, safety (yes SAFETY). The reason I bought the E320 was for the wife. I read (before purchasing the E320) that the Mercedes-Benz brand quality has severely diminished over the past few years. I don't know if this is a fact because I'm a first time buyer, but I am not exactly happy with what I paid for and what I received. It feels more solid but the cars has had many many problems while the older GS300 has had zero. What really ticked me off was when our lights failed at night half way to Las Vegas. Imagine driving in pitch black. Not fun.

So I guess it seems as if I love the GS300 and hate the E320. That isn't the case. I love both cars dearly or else I would have sold them and gotten a 530i. However, for the price I paid for both, the GS300 beats the E320 in value, quality, and ride (smoothness). The E320 beats the GS300 in "pimp-factor", ride (feedback/intuition), and level of solidness. If you think Lexus drivers are stupid for paying $20k more for a redbadged Toyota, do you feel smart paying the premium price for a car that is less reliable than a Honda?

For what Lexus is charging for their cars (I paid less than $43k out the door) their cars are BARGAINS. It's like buying a platinum chain for the price of a silver one. You pay less but you get more. For what Mercedes-Benz is charging, I hope they improve on the problems. For what I paid, I would expect more but it falls behind Lexus in many areas. If they offered the rock solid feel of Mercedes and the reliability and quality of the Lexus, Mercedes-Benz would be unstoppable and I would not hesitate to purchase another one. However, it seems as if Mercedes-Benz is riding on its name and reputation--only it's not living up to it.

As for you moxieman2, I'd rather pay $20k more for a "Toyota" than the price you would pay for for a Mercedes... and receiving the reliability even Honda beats.

W210

Talking about Hondas, our company bought the 2002 Odyssey but found it to be rather troublesome. Endless rattles everywhere but we just don't bother to bring it in.

However, we must say we're certainly surprised as it is not the first model year.

vraa

Wow! That's real surprising, I have the first Odyssey with Navigation in Houston and it's been flawless. I think the only problem we've had is that it won't die! I really want to replace it with a Cayenne Turbo

W210

We have a nasty rattle above the glove compartment, at driver's door and also at driver's side sliding door.

I managed to eliminate the driver's side rattle by adjusting the rubber stoppers but could not find similar stoppers for the sliding door.

The glove compartment rattle is particularly annoying, should really bring it in before warranty expires.

I was framed.

Before I bought the GS300 in 2001, I had a 1991 Honda Accord LX. That car gave 250k miles without a single hiccup. Sure there were a few rattles here and there but nothing major. It wasn't at the dealership half of the time with faulty wiring or burnt out fuses. I still have that car and it is still driven. It's nearing 300k miles and the engine is as smooth and as reliable as day one. Can you honestly say the same for your Mercedes-Benz? All the people that I know that have owned Mercedes' including myself cannot. Heck, I have a friend who has the 2004 E320 and within the first 2000 miles a light burnt out.

GTR

Great comparison, "I was framed". Your summing up of the issue has been my main argument in all the Lexus vs. Mercedes threads. They both have their strengths and weaknesses. Being a Lexus man myself, i'am beginning to fall in love with the solidity of the Mercedes, and its reputation for safety. I joined these forums not to argue, but give praise and constructive criticisms, and also explore issues with fellow forum members, whether they are related to Mercedes Benz or not. Its a shame though... many members just don't seem to understand and respect other brands.

W210

I had a 1989 Honda Accord Coupe EXi and it was the only car that got me stuck on the road due to coolant overheat. We pulled to a gas station and the inexperienced me back then allowed the gas attendent to mess with the coolant with the dangerously hot fluid overspraying everywhere. We later found out it was a simple matter with Honda putting in the underrated fuse at the factory resulting in the fan (fuse blown frequently) hence the overheat.

I sold the car not because of the bitter experience, but for the various squeaks and rattles.

The current Oddyssey has lots of rattle everywhere as mentioned in previous email, but I have much lower expectation for that car hence I don't even bother bringing it in.

From my two previous Honda experience, my Saab, Volvo, Audi, MB had been more reliable. Their relatively minor issues don't get me stuck.

My cases could well be the exception but for myself, I do also care a lot about the drive experience and solid chassis with no squeaks and rattles, the Oddyssey had been the worst, followed by the Vovlo, then the Saab and Audi. MB had been great, no annoying chassis noise over bumps even with the extra stiff suspension in the E55 AMG.

I'm not a devoted fan of any made and cannot speak for Lexus or BMW with lack of experience. My Honda experience had certainly been rather disappointing. Sure, the car runs but the driving experience had been poor, I just can't stand the annoying rattles everywhere. I rather have a MB car having to visit the dealership a few times a year but the rest of the time running perfectly.

1SICKLEX

Honda head of engineering said they are looking to get back to quality. Between countless rattles and minor issues and the tranny issue in almost every V-6 model sold, it's pissing people off who thought of Honda for quality.

XenonES3

HAHAHaHaHaH... I'm surprised that webpage still lives! That page has been around for a while that nobody took seriously.

Anyway, let's keep things cool, it's amazing how petty things such as the "cars we chose to drive" can start such vendettas and senseless fights between people.

--------

I aspire to own a previous gen CLK55 AMG....but I'm young. I want to establish myself first before doing such a venture.

My cousin, a Harvard MBA and billionaire, is the man I look up to. All through high school and college he drove a beater Toyota Corrolla. His girlfriend hated it but it never let them down. Repair expenses: $0.00.

He put every penny he saved into starting his business and today he can do anything he wants.

Despite being a billionaire, he and his wife still carry on frugal habits. Currently, he drives a '99 Lexus GS400 (which he bought used a year ago) and his wife drives an '00 Lexus RX300 (he bought if for her this past Xmas, used of course!).

THAT is what I RESPECT.

I'm a little bit more fortunate than he was when he was younger as I currently drive a 1995 Lexus ES300 with 111K miles which has run FLAWLESSLY.

The ONLY thing keeping me away from indulging in the CLK I drool over is the Toyota/Lexus reliability peace of mind. While my friends complain about paying FAT repair bills on their Euro/American cars, robbing of them of tuition money, I can sit back and smile thinking about where I can invest my money next.

When will I get the CLK? When my bank account shows 8 figures

J Lucas

Yeah too bad that will never happen bucko, so stick with your ES and you might be lucky and jump into the middle class.

XenonES3

Wow, so much hatred on this site....

I don't get it man, why are some of you guys so jealous of others?

Frankly speaking, Lexus owners don't give a damn about Mercedes. We are all extremely happy with our cars and if anything we set our sights on achieving BMW-like performance and handling. Yet from what I've seen here, some Mercedes guys BASH on everybody no matter who they are or what they drive without precedent, without facts.

Keep peace, and have a Happy New Year!!!

W210

You're quite right and come to think of it, there'a also the annoying rear brakes noise when the car is cold..

The list goes on.

I was framed.

Wow. Too bad the kind of car you drive doesn't determine the kind of class you have.

J Lucas

It definitely does not. Would you care to define "class" ?

J Lucas

You dont get it? You done come into another man's home and talk negatively about his belongings and expect him to treat you with respect.
You should expect the same shotty remarks you threw @ him to come right back at you.
If you go over to club lexus which I do often since my brother purchased a 99 gs 400 2 years ago, you will find a great deal of threads about mercedes vs lexus.which is better, etc etc.... There arent even 10% of those sort of post on mbworld.org.
This is the first one I remember in a long time and it seems you guys have one daily. I even read a moderate threaten to lock all new ones that come up because they are being posted to frequently. SO dont come over here with your "I dont know what your talking about attitude", when this is all you guys do in your own forums...
SO i find it quite hard to believe that you lexus dudes dont have some sort of ego problem..

W210

Very well said.

It's too obvious most MB owners here could well afford a Lexus but decided not to get it. Most of us had made up our mind and are enjoying our MB ownership. Coming here to extensively try to sell Lexus or to say how all owners of different brands should get along, etc. is pointless and superficial.

This is a MB board. Most MB members here will actively participate in MB discussions. If I was interested in Lexus, I would go to a Lexus a board and seek help.

The more I read from the Lexus crusaders on MB boards, the more I'm convinced I have made the right choice. I would hate to be a Lexus owner with a chip on his shoulder spending much of my time on MB boards defending my brand, wondering if the grass is greener.

XenonES3

Come on man I apologize, I didn't come here to fight, I joined to learn more about the CLK but some misconceptions in this thread caught my eye first. And in the other thread, I found his statement amusing, I did not intend to insult him in anyway.

I love the CLK and if you read my posts, I have not bashed MB. In this thread I simply stated money saved from Toyota/Lexus reliability is the ONLY THING preventing me from buying a CLK.

Lastly, I didn't target the whole MB community as the people who bash on other cars, but I specifically said "some". This group of people (young kids?) is the one that pours out false information to support its claim of "Mercedes is the best, screw BMW and Lexus". Once again, this is aimed at only a minority of the MB community, most of you guys ROCK!

Thanking you,

XenonES3

zam2000

It's nice to know that lot of Benz owners have never traveled beyond their little town border, not to mention international.

Car are branded differently. There's no Lexus, Acura, nor Infinity in Japan. It's all Toyota, Honda, and Nissan.

Similarly, Acura TSX here is a Honda Accord in Europe. Are they same cars ? you bet.

Brand differently, however, price and public perception about them is the same, regardless if it's Japan or American.

I love to see fool who drive a crappy C230, and think that the car is superior compare to the Lexus LS430, just because the Lexus is a Toyota rebadged.

They could brand a 911 a Pinto, and I'll be happy driving it. Would you drive a Dodge Neon if they rename it Maybach ? Same company anyway.

Who care what brand the car is. It's look, ride, and quality that determine a car.

No one blame you for being stupid and not knowing thing. But if you don't know, and talk crap to make you look smart, you just prove two things:
* Your stupidity is intentional
* Your IQ is low double digits.

W210

Agree with your last statement (would also add performance, value and safety to the equation) but disagree the C230 is crappy.

Corp DL

"I was framed" seems to have put some nice clarity on the issue. There is no doubt that my 87 Accord & 97 Maxima SE were more trouble free, cost effective, predictable vehicles. I have quite a few rattles in my 99 W210. Noises that are common to the W210's. There is nothing like a Mercedes Benz, but I feel that I am paying a premium (that is dealing with all of it's quirks) to own one. I'll have to see how it holds its value thru time to make up for maintence costs.

I love my E-class and have faith that MB will work out its kinks over the next generation or two. I certainly hope so or I'll have to buy one of those brilliantly sterile Lexus' and just have soft, non-stimulating, yet financially smart transportation. We're all different in our needs as with any product. I'm building a career/business and like "Xenon ES3" want to wisely sink dollars into appreciating assets and not frivilously spending dollars on keeping up a car.

So to the point where this thread started, as one just comparing MBs and Lexus's, on an MB website; it's good to hear honest & useful differences with people's ownership experiences so I can make the best choices for my future transportation. I support such dialoge on the forums, yet its value diminishes as the emotion & ego increases.

Thanks for the initial information by posting the thread, Frank.

J Lucas

Their IQ's arent as low as your English Regents Score. Before you go labeling people as ignorant, you must first learn the English language correctly.