The problems are not just rooted in the C class! Saying that is just ignorant (I am not saying you are but that Moron Gekko.) In fact it started from the W220 S class in 2001 and it spread all through out the line up of MBZ new cars.

If you want to say MB has reliablility and quality issues, then it stems from the CL to the SL, the S all the way down to the hatchback coupe. Its not just the C class.

Infact it seems like the New E class is having ALOT more problems then C class owners.

Besides the C Sedan has been out for a long time since the late eighties. Its nothing new. If you are talking about the Hatchback then I somewhat agree Aesthetically cheapening the brand IMO.

Totally agree, of course he picked on the C-class seeing what car you drive : )

What a moron indeed.

Wow, what a dumb post. Since you are obviously stuck in your delusional little lexus world, let me educate you a bit. MB is like any other auotmaker. MB's objective is to sell the most cars to the most people. They strive to bring people into the brand as young as possible and keep them for the rest of their car buying lives. It'a called good business, and making money. MB can't accomplish those objectives if all they sell are 100k cars. Thus classes like the a and c are necessary, make that paramount for MB to survive in today's fierce automotive market.

MB's problems have nothing to do with the C class, or any other class in particular. It has to do with MB's focus, philosophy and direction. MB needs to spend less $$$ on technology and more on QA. They need to be more diligent when evaluating parts suppliers. Gawd knows they have failed us in this regard.

I have no problem with Lexus. They are a smart company which builds reliable cars. I'm not a fan of thier styling, and that's one thing that's stopped me from buying one. The idea of paying premium $$ for a rebadged Toyota is another.

Enjoy your car my friend, and let us enjoy ours.

German Engineering vs. Japanese Engineering....nuff said! Mercedes wins!

gekko...what do you drive?

He drives a Lexus.

hi noble....is it an is,es,ls,sc???

He drives an ES 300. aka toyota camry.

hey noble,

i'm curious because he's been bashing MB's pretty hard.
one thing is for sure.....i would take a C class over and ES
any day of the week. the C is a very attractive vehicle that
exudes style and class. ES on the other hand....looks like
a used bar of soap.....but .....jdpowers says it's the most
reliable blah blah blah

Yeah he has an inferiority complex. poor guy.

ES is the worst looking of the lexus line up. Even Lexus drivers admit its a disgrace to the brand.

I don't care what JD Powers say. For God sakes they rated Jaguar the most POS company in the world higher than MB. But then again I assuming people who buy a Jag do not have high expectations LOL!!. JD Powers is an absolutely useless, subjective survey.

noble,

even if MB was number 1 in jdpowers eyes i would only buy a MB if it was attractive and had the features i was looking for(safety, power, technology etc). i still can't understand why people who truly love cars would let a survey dictate what they drive. i could understand if a soccer mom used that kind of information but not anyone who was truly excited about cars. and what really makes me laugh is that because MB isn't number 1 in jdpowers surveys fans of other brands like to portray MB's as being junk that is just a plain whacked and delusional

The least desirable Lexus in my books. For an economic front wheeler, the Camry is a far more honest and effective solution.

I guess the only reason I would go for the ES is the ML stereo?

Hey guys, don't be so harsh on the guy. By calling him an idiot, how much more mature does that make you? Name calling doesn't make you any smarter...

Anyways, I agree that the ES is ugly. I got it as a loaner when my GS was in for its 30k tune up. I was surprised though. The interior was top notch, ride quality was excellent, and I was thoroughly satisfied with it.

Noble320: I wouldn't call it a disgrace to the brand. It might be the ugliest (I agree with you guys ) but it does hold up the values of Lexus quite well.

I don't get what's with the bashing on Lexus here. What's up with that?

Have you read this thread fully? If you did you would understand why. The man set himself up. If he is going to come here and splurt out BS I will **** on him.

And that's the reason we have a 15 page thread on why S55inPA was banned at Club Lexus. Cauldron calling the kettle black?...

hey guys,

I was framed......you completely missed the point about that thread. the main reason i started the "banned at club lexus" thread was...not to discuss whether MB's are better than Lexus or vice versa. it is a thread that was created mainly to point out how unfairly i was treated for having an opposing view. remember...i was banned from that website for just having an opinionn contrary to that of most club lexus members. it seemed from what the moderator had sent to me in an email ... a bunch of club lexus members were emailing him complaining about my posts.

as far as i know .....nobody is complaining to any moderators about Gekko's posts. nobody is trying to ban him. his opinion is not being silenced. he's free to keep posting and engage other MBworld members. it seems to me that he has an opinion contrary to that of most MBworld posters and he should be imho allowed to post that opinion.

in this current thread it easy to see that MBworld is a much more open and accepting forum for differing opions.

Why ban him? Its entertainment.

Indeed, I share the view that the thread exposes the inexperience of some of the Club Lexus moderators more than anything about Lexus vs. MB.

I would stay way from any community where the 'big brothers' like to play God and silence opposing views. Citizens acting as police secretly reporting to the authority.. 'Self-proclaimed higher counsel members' underhandedly deciding to have the unpopular man eliminated?!

Too Orwellian for my taste.

Ok guys, it's obvious that this guy is just trolling the forum, trying to rile people up. The best way to combat a troll is to ignore it and let it die. Stop feeding that sissy's posts.

I knew she was a troll the minute I saw all those cross posts basically saying the same thing. Just let the thread die and don't respond to that idiot anymore.

Have you not seen a dramatic downfall in MB products in the past years? Do you also actually think that when they bought chrysler that they didnt incorprate anything into the manufactoring of the mercedes from the chrystler corporation? As for what i am driving right now, its just a beautiful rebadged chrysler that wont stay out of the shop. And as far as the new CLS comming out, if i am not mistaken it was designed by someone who they got from Hyundai.

MB's problem started LOOONG before the merger. It has nothing to do with Chrysler. In fact, if MB can get it's act togeather it will help chrysler. Many MB parts are going into chrysler cars right now. Look at the crossfire as an example. I'm sure we'll see more example of that in the futrure. I doubt MB would build there cars with chrysler parts, unless of course they wanted to go out of business.

Who cares who designed the CLS? So what if he was from huyndai. Designers move around all the time. They never stay with the same company that long. All that matters is that they stay within the appproved design theme. Remember, the MB higher ups have final say over a design, not the designer.

Unless MB pulls a BMW then we won't be seeing bangled cars in their lineup.

Last time I checked a lot of that Hyndai Tiberon thing was designed by Ferrari guys.

Does that make it a Ferrari? Ha.

Agreed!

My take on the parts subject is that MB is simply not taking the time to put together their cars together with as much care and quality as they did in the past. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't MOST parts constructed equally? Putting aside the specially made AMG or M components I think car parts are pretty much equal. I don't think Lexus components are manufactured any differently than the MB components. I think it has more to do with the mentality of the automaker of the vehicle.

If MB focused more on quality and achieved the quality we would expect instead of returning to the dealer ever other week, I would without a doubt and without any hesitation put down my order for the E55 that I've been dreaming about.

>"Lexus is a copier not an innovator. everything that is in a Lexus can be had 2 to 3 years earlier in a German car. sometimes 5 or more years earlier."

For the record, the US patent and trade market office shows 8,060 issued patents assigned to Toyota. There are 2,227 assigned to Daimler Benz.