Who's copying who?
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2004 Lexus ES 330 NAV/ML
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From: Wilkes Barre Pa.
Fiscal Neo Con Express
one thing i that i know is MB fans everywhere can count on is this........
MB will never manufacture an autombile that is as ugly, boring, dull, uninspiring, unoriginal, completely forgetful, and bland as the Lexus ES300 or any other Lexus product.
so when in it comes to who's copying who.....don't hold your breath
MB will never manufacture an autombile that is as ugly, boring, dull, uninspiring, unoriginal, completely forgetful, and bland as the Lexus ES300 or any other Lexus product.
so when in it comes to who's copying who.....don't hold your breath
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Originally posted by S55inPA
one thing i that i know is MB fans everywhere can count on is this........
MB will never manufacture an autombile that is as ugly, boring, dull, uninspiring, unoriginal, completely forgetful, and bland as the Lexus ES300 or any other Lexus product.
so when in it comes to who's copying who.....don't hold your breath
one thing i that i know is MB fans everywhere can count on is this........
MB will never manufacture an autombile that is as ugly, boring, dull, uninspiring, unoriginal, completely forgetful, and bland as the Lexus ES300 or any other Lexus product.
so when in it comes to who's copying who.....don't hold your breath
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2000 W210 E55->2003 R230 SL500->2004 W211 E55->2007 997TT+2007 E63->2010 GLK350->2012 E550 4matic
Originally posted by S55inPA
one thing i that i know is MB fans everywhere can count on is this........
MB will never manufacture an autombile that is as ugly, boring, dull, uninspiring, unoriginal, completely forgetful, and bland as the Lexus ES300 or any other Lexus product.
one thing i that i know is MB fans everywhere can count on is this........
MB will never manufacture an autombile that is as ugly, boring, dull, uninspiring, unoriginal, completely forgetful, and bland as the Lexus ES300 or any other Lexus product.
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From: Wilkes Barre Pa.
Fiscal Neo Con Express
hey guys,
i've been involved in many discussions of Lexus vs MB. what amazes me in all of these discussions is that the only thing that is positive in Lexus favor is the reliablility issue. granted that is a true plus for any consumer when making a purchase but.....it is only one...1....uno... part of the decision process.
when it comes to Lexus reliability...it is undeniably very good. but...craftsmanship and quality????? if your going to use these terms than maybe you should define them because both of them are so subjective.
Lexus autos imho are nice cars. are they as nice as MB's and BMW's and Audi's....no way.....never. they are a nice car for the price. Lexus is a copier not an innovator. everything that is in a Lexus can be had 2 to 3 years earlier in a German car. sometimes 5 or more years earlier.
when it comes to the exterior appearance of any Lexus product. there is nothing inspiring or anything remotely unique to say "wow that is a beautiful car". the best compliment is usually "yeah it's ok looking ...but at least it has good reliability".
Lexus still...after a decade doesn't have a clue as to what there cars should look like.
if "reliability" is what you want ... i say go for it. buy a Lexus......and while your at it make sure you pick up a subscription to consumer reports. you can live your life but what they say is " best ".....because what is painfully obvious is that you look at the purchase of a fine automobile the same way you look at the purchase of a washing machine....just another appliance.
i've been involved in many discussions of Lexus vs MB. what amazes me in all of these discussions is that the only thing that is positive in Lexus favor is the reliablility issue. granted that is a true plus for any consumer when making a purchase but.....it is only one...1....uno... part of the decision process.
when it comes to Lexus reliability...it is undeniably very good. but...craftsmanship and quality????? if your going to use these terms than maybe you should define them because both of them are so subjective.
Lexus autos imho are nice cars. are they as nice as MB's and BMW's and Audi's....no way.....never. they are a nice car for the price. Lexus is a copier not an innovator. everything that is in a Lexus can be had 2 to 3 years earlier in a German car. sometimes 5 or more years earlier.
when it comes to the exterior appearance of any Lexus product. there is nothing inspiring or anything remotely unique to say "wow that is a beautiful car". the best compliment is usually "yeah it's ok looking ...but at least it has good reliability".
Lexus still...after a decade doesn't have a clue as to what there cars should look like.
if "reliability" is what you want ... i say go for it. buy a Lexus......and while your at it make sure you pick up a subscription to consumer reports. you can live your life but what they say is " best ".....because what is painfully obvious is that you look at the purchase of a fine automobile the same way you look at the purchase of a washing machine....just another appliance.
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Well, if you want technology would you want technology with crap reliability? That's what I've experienced with my E320.
If you're going to be an "innovater" be sure your products stand the test of time. I mean c'mon, after 10k in my E320, the interior bulbs burn out. Nothing highly innovative about interior lights but even those aren't all that reliable.
Maybe MB should spend more time concentrating on the reliability and build instead of being the innovater... and repairer because this is probably one of the only things that's holding back my "MB experience."
I seriously don't get why so many people bag on Lexus. I admit I used to be one of those people, but now that I own one, I'm a believer. MB on the other hand, I thought it was supposed to be a dream car that kids would grow up dreaming to drive. The experience has been anything but.
If you're going to be an "innovater" be sure your products stand the test of time. I mean c'mon, after 10k in my E320, the interior bulbs burn out. Nothing highly innovative about interior lights but even those aren't all that reliable.
Maybe MB should spend more time concentrating on the reliability and build instead of being the innovater... and repairer because this is probably one of the only things that's holding back my "MB experience."
I seriously don't get why so many people bag on Lexus. I admit I used to be one of those people, but now that I own one, I'm a believer. MB on the other hand, I thought it was supposed to be a dream car that kids would grow up dreaming to drive. The experience has been anything but.
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Originally posted by S55inPA
hey guys,
i've been involved in many discussions of Lexus vs MB. what amazes me in all of these discussions is that the only thing that is positive in Lexus favor is the reliablility issue. granted that is a true plus for any consumer when making a purchase but.....it is only one...1....uno... part of the decision process.
when it comes to Lexus reliability...it is undeniably very good. but...craftsmanship and quality????? if your going to use these terms than maybe you should define them because both of them are so subjective.
Lexus autos imho are nice cars. are they as nice as MB's and BMW's and Audi's....no way.....never. they are a nice car for the price. Lexus is a copier not an innovator. everything that is in a Lexus can be had 2 to 3 years earlier in a German car. sometimes 5 or more years earlier.
when it comes to the exterior appearance of any Lexus product. there is nothing inspiring or anything remotely unique to say "wow that is a beautiful car". the best compliment is usually "yeah it's ok looking ...but at least it has good reliability".
Lexus still...after a decade doesn't have a clue as to what there cars should look like.
if "reliability" is what you want ... i say go for it. buy a Lexus......and while your at it make sure you pick up a subscription to consumer reports. you can live your life but what they say is " best ".....because what is painfully obvious is that you look at the purchase of a fine automobile the same way you look at the purchase of a washing machine....just another appliance.
hey guys,
i've been involved in many discussions of Lexus vs MB. what amazes me in all of these discussions is that the only thing that is positive in Lexus favor is the reliablility issue. granted that is a true plus for any consumer when making a purchase but.....it is only one...1....uno... part of the decision process.
when it comes to Lexus reliability...it is undeniably very good. but...craftsmanship and quality????? if your going to use these terms than maybe you should define them because both of them are so subjective.
Lexus autos imho are nice cars. are they as nice as MB's and BMW's and Audi's....no way.....never. they are a nice car for the price. Lexus is a copier not an innovator. everything that is in a Lexus can be had 2 to 3 years earlier in a German car. sometimes 5 or more years earlier.
when it comes to the exterior appearance of any Lexus product. there is nothing inspiring or anything remotely unique to say "wow that is a beautiful car". the best compliment is usually "yeah it's ok looking ...but at least it has good reliability".
Lexus still...after a decade doesn't have a clue as to what there cars should look like.
if "reliability" is what you want ... i say go for it. buy a Lexus......and while your at it make sure you pick up a subscription to consumer reports. you can live your life but what they say is " best ".....because what is painfully obvious is that you look at the purchase of a fine automobile the same way you look at the purchase of a washing machine....just another appliance.
The sad part is that most Lexus owners continue to have MB envy thus they still peek and see what's the latest (from whom they copy from). You'll never catch me dead snooping around Lexus boards!
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2004 Lexus ES 330 NAV/ML
S55inPA -
The experts at Car and Driver disagree with you...
$70,000 Luxury Sedans
We test six sedans for those who can plunk down $100,000 and say, 'Keep the change.'
BY PATRICK BEDARD
PHOTOGRAPHY BY AARON KILEY
December 2003
Let's just say that a guy who engineers for himself a $197.2 million retirement package as head of the New York Stock Exchange probably doesn't see himself in a Hyundai. So we're thinking large this month, inspired by the appetites of Dick Grasso. What's a good set of wheels for those make-do days when the chauffeur is off?
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=1
Try to get out of Wilkes-Barre every once in a while.
The experts at Car and Driver disagree with you...
$70,000 Luxury Sedans
We test six sedans for those who can plunk down $100,000 and say, 'Keep the change.'
BY PATRICK BEDARD
PHOTOGRAPHY BY AARON KILEY
December 2003
Let's just say that a guy who engineers for himself a $197.2 million retirement package as head of the New York Stock Exchange probably doesn't see himself in a Hyundai. So we're thinking large this month, inspired by the appetites of Dick Grasso. What's a good set of wheels for those make-do days when the chauffeur is off?
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=1
Try to get out of Wilkes-Barre every once in a while.
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2004 Lexus ES 330 NAV/ML
>"The sad part is that most Lexus owners continue to have MB envy thus they still peek and see what's the latest (from whom they copy from). You'll never catch me dead snooping around Lexus boards!"
No, but I do enjoy reading about all of your MB horror stories, it makes me appreciate my Lexus that much more:
1. Atrocious dealer service pre/post sale.
2. Parts falling off of brand new cars.
3. Doors painted a different color than the rest of the brand new car and subseqent dealer runaround.
4. NAV replacement fiascos.
5. $64K+ RAGtops.
6. CD Players NOT STANDARD.
7. No DVD NAV.
8. Brand new cars that just won't start and need multiple visits to dealer.
9. Locks that lock and unlock mysteriously.
10. Other quality/service issues too numerous to mention but well documented on this board.
It's simply amazing what you guys put up with and how much extra you pay for it. If you are happy, God bless. To each his own.
No, but I do enjoy reading about all of your MB horror stories, it makes me appreciate my Lexus that much more:
1. Atrocious dealer service pre/post sale.
2. Parts falling off of brand new cars.
3. Doors painted a different color than the rest of the brand new car and subseqent dealer runaround.
4. NAV replacement fiascos.
5. $64K+ RAGtops.
6. CD Players NOT STANDARD.
7. No DVD NAV.
8. Brand new cars that just won't start and need multiple visits to dealer.
9. Locks that lock and unlock mysteriously.
10. Other quality/service issues too numerous to mention but well documented on this board.
It's simply amazing what you guys put up with and how much extra you pay for it. If you are happy, God bless. To each his own.
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Originally posted by Gekko
Dick Grasso. What's a good set of wheels for those make-do days when the chauffeur is off?
Dick Grasso. What's a good set of wheels for those make-do days when the chauffeur is off?
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Originally posted by Gekko
>"The sad part is that most Lexus owners continue to have MB envy thus they still peek and see what's the latest (from whom they copy from). You'll never catch me dead snooping around Lexus boards!"
No, but I do enjoy reading about all of your MB horror stories, it makes me appreciate my Lexus that much more.. It's simply amazing what you guys put up with and how much extra you pay for it. If you are happy, God bless. To each his own.
>"The sad part is that most Lexus owners continue to have MB envy thus they still peek and see what's the latest (from whom they copy from). You'll never catch me dead snooping around Lexus boards!"
No, but I do enjoy reading about all of your MB horror stories, it makes me appreciate my Lexus that much more.. It's simply amazing what you guys put up with and how much extra you pay for it. If you are happy, God bless. To each his own.
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From: Atlanta, GA
Lexus GS 450h
Ah, now I understand why so many Lexus owners like to hang out here
I have never seen a Benz competitor to the original SC 300/400. The RX 300 was the first car based SUV (that eveyone now copied). I prefer Lexus ergonomics (less busy dash). I like the styling. The ownership experience. There is no Benz as sporty as the IS 300 stock.
To each his/her own. Both are fine cars with pros/cons. We could be arguing Kia/Hyandai here.
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2000 W210 E55->2003 R230 SL500->2004 W211 E55->2007 997TT+2007 E63->2010 GLK350->2012 E550 4matic
Originally posted by Gekko
I don't "hang" here - and I only have a few posts. Don't flatter yourself. You're not that interesting and I have better things to do. Good night.
I don't "hang" here - and I only have a few posts. Don't flatter yourself. You're not that interesting and I have better things to do. Good night.
Next time I have a problem with my car, I'll sure post it here for your enjoyment.
Good night and take it easy.
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2000 W210 E55->2003 R230 SL500->2004 W211 E55->2007 997TT+2007 E63->2010 GLK350->2012 E550 4matic
Originally posted by 1SICKLEX
Personally, I love the AMG cars. Since the C32. Benz is still the #1 recognized luxury car maker. So props to it. Lexus does fix many of Benz's ideas. Yes. Is that bad? No. I think Benz's now look like Japanese cars, is that bad, no. Copying, yes. Who doesn't?
I have never seen a Benz competitor to the original SC 300/400. The RX 300 was the first car based SUV (that eveyone now copied). I prefer Lexus ergonomics (less busy dash). I like the styling. The ownership experience. There is no Benz as sporty as the IS 300 stock.
To each his/her own. Both are fine cars with pros/cons. We could be arguing Kia/Hyandai here.
Personally, I love the AMG cars. Since the C32. Benz is still the #1 recognized luxury car maker. So props to it. Lexus does fix many of Benz's ideas. Yes. Is that bad? No. I think Benz's now look like Japanese cars, is that bad, no. Copying, yes. Who doesn't?
I have never seen a Benz competitor to the original SC 300/400. The RX 300 was the first car based SUV (that eveyone now copied). I prefer Lexus ergonomics (less busy dash). I like the styling. The ownership experience. There is no Benz as sporty as the IS 300 stock.
To each his/her own. Both are fine cars with pros/cons. We could be arguing Kia/Hyandai here.
I hope Lexus will join the horsepower war for the name of competition!
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From: Wilkes Barre Pa.
Fiscal Neo Con Express
hey guys,
first off... maybe i was too harsh in my first post. the ES and SC's are truly unattractive and uninspired designs. the rest of the Lexus line is much more palatable but not one has the needed "wow" factor for me to actually purchase one.
....gekko....i get car & driver and just about every other major auto publication. in most of these publications the S class does very well. i was surprised at the end result of that particular article but one poor showing does not diminish the true excellence of the S class.
horror stories? isn't that a bit of an exaggeration. you make it sound like MB's are put together by a blind man in a garage without any tools. get serious. like i said...if it weren't for the reliability issue you wouldn't have a leg to stand on in your argument.
i wonder if you were offered for free an S500 or an LS 430 which one you would take??
and what's with the comment i should get out of WB more often...did you bump your head or something??
here's another observation.....if people actually take the time to join a forum to discuss cars....why would they view them with such a lack of passion that all they really want out of an automobile is a unattractive box with 4 wheels.
first off... maybe i was too harsh in my first post. the ES and SC's are truly unattractive and uninspired designs. the rest of the Lexus line is much more palatable but not one has the needed "wow" factor for me to actually purchase one.
....gekko....i get car & driver and just about every other major auto publication. in most of these publications the S class does very well. i was surprised at the end result of that particular article but one poor showing does not diminish the true excellence of the S class.
horror stories? isn't that a bit of an exaggeration. you make it sound like MB's are put together by a blind man in a garage without any tools. get serious. like i said...if it weren't for the reliability issue you wouldn't have a leg to stand on in your argument.
i wonder if you were offered for free an S500 or an LS 430 which one you would take??
and what's with the comment i should get out of WB more often...did you bump your head or something??
here's another observation.....if people actually take the time to join a forum to discuss cars....why would they view them with such a lack of passion that all they really want out of an automobile is a unattractive box with 4 wheels.
Last edited by S55inPA; Jan 19, 2004 at 11:39 PM.
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From: New Jersey
SLS AMG | S65 AMG | GL550
Originally posted by Gekko
I'll take a Toyota over a Chrysler any day!
I'll take a Toyota over a Chrysler any day!
TOYOTA OWNS AND DESIGNS LEXUS
MERCEDES OWNS CHRYSLER, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND!
You don't see a Chrysler designed Mercedes do you?
If you drive a Lexus ES it's just a fancy Camary that you paid more for...
Erik
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2004 Lexus ES 330 NAV/ML
Mercedes should have never came out with the C-Class. It de-valued and cheapened the brand for two reasons. One, it took MB's reputation for poor quality to a whole new depth. Two, and most importantly, the cheap price allowed a large group of poor, juvenile wannabes that are concerned with displaying a perceived but false "status", access to and the continued degradation of a *ONCE* great and exclusive brand. You know what the "C" stands for, don't you? "Cheap".
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Originally posted by Gekko
Mercedes should have never came out with the C-Class. It de-valued and cheapened the brand for two reasons. One, it took MB's reputation for poor quality to a whole new depth. Two, and most importantly, the cheap price allowed a large group of poor, juvenile wannabes that are concerned with displaying a perceived but false "status", access to and the continued degradation of a *ONCE* great and exclusive brand. You know what the "C" stands for, don't you? "Cheap".
Mercedes should have never came out with the C-Class. It de-valued and cheapened the brand for two reasons. One, it took MB's reputation for poor quality to a whole new depth. Two, and most importantly, the cheap price allowed a large group of poor, juvenile wannabes that are concerned with displaying a perceived but false "status", access to and the continued degradation of a *ONCE* great and exclusive brand. You know what the "C" stands for, don't you? "Cheap".
Last edited by Guest0001; Jan 20, 2004 at 10:36 PM.
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Originally posted by Noble C320
Wow you are really are stupid.
Wow you are really are stupid.
You want to know what my car is? Nothing.
Want to know why? Because Lexus is giving my *** the run around.
All companies suck, let's keep the arguments car related only.
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Originally posted by Noble C320
Wow you really are stupid.
Wow you really are stupid.
A close friend of mine had a 199x(3?) C230 (220 or 230?) and the engine flat out failed in December. He also has a LS400 that was bought at the same time as the C230 and that car is as solid as the first day.
Until MB manages to pull their act together again, I'm going to hold off my order for an AMG. I've always wanted one but for a car in that price range I would expect perfection. Until then, I'll be happily driving my GS300 and in between that I'll be driving my wifes E320 to the dealer to fix yet another problem.
