43/53 model and 63 model
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GLE
43/53 model and 63 model
I just feel it is interesting so I want to ask this question. Does 43/53 owner think they are driving a real AMG model. Also when they meet 63 model on road, will 43/53 owners feel embarrassing?
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 510
Likes: 64
From: Dallas Texas USA
2023 AMG EQE 53
2019 C43 Sedan, says AMG on front and back, sounds like AMG and rides and drives like AMG, what more do you want. I've had the "one man one engine" motors in previous AMG and can't tell that the motor in the C43 is any less.
Member
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 123
Likes: 7
From: Long Island
2005 E55 AMG, 1999 Lexus LS 400
idk why everyone takes "not an AMG" as equating to not a nice car or that who owns one is somehow less of a person... you never saw people post about their new AMG!! when it was called the C450, now that its literally just been renamed the C43 people get super excited
AMG started as an independent firm that designed and manufactured engines, without that it's simply not "an AMG" but is still a very nice driving and looking mercedes
Super Member
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 789
Likes: 47
From: Eastern Massachusetts
2021 E450, 2020 C43, 2015 C300, 2007 C280
My suspicion (I can't call it more) has always been that these large increases in power (by Audi and BMW, as well) are due entirely to re-tuning the engines to restore full power. In other words, the ordinary engines are de-tuned -- a lot! There is something very suspicious about a torgue curve that is flat from 1600 RPM to 4000 RPM. Back in the 1960s, I read Road & Track every month. Whether the test car of the month was a Renault or a Ferrari, the torgue curve was never flat! It was always a bell-shaped curve. Restoring the bell-shaped curve is all that the high-priced, specialty shop needs, in order to acquire a reputation as auto wizards. The manufacturers have to deny these engines to the mass of owners because of CAFE -- Corporate Average Fuel Economy. They can produce only so many full-power engines and still meet the CAFE standards. The law of supply-and-demand then takes over, resulting in the high price.
Some changes may be necessary to ensure engine reliability at the higher power levels. If all of the ordinary engines could handle those levels, they would be over-engineered. However, assembling an engine by hand will not make it stronger. I think we're past having to worry that production engines are delivered with oil channels clogged with machine chips or even not drilled all the way through to the proper destination of the lubricant! Or that the centers of the main bearings do not lie along a straight line! Perhaps some critical parts have to be made out of better metal. Help me out, you real engineers!
Some changes may be necessary to ensure engine reliability at the higher power levels. If all of the ordinary engines could handle those levels, they would be over-engineered. However, assembling an engine by hand will not make it stronger. I think we're past having to worry that production engines are delivered with oil channels clogged with machine chips or even not drilled all the way through to the proper destination of the lubricant! Or that the centers of the main bearings do not lie along a straight line! Perhaps some critical parts have to be made out of better metal. Help me out, you real engineers!
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Joined: Oct 2018
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From: Washington DC
No more MB:(
43's and 53's are not real AMG cars. They do not have AMG engines, they are merely a modified engine, tightened suspension with nice trimmings. While they are in fact nicer (if you want performance) and better option than the standard cars, they are another way for MB to monetize the AMG brand. Get more of them on the road with badging. Similar to BMW's watered down M badging. No different.
The fake quad exhaust (tips only) says it all. Why in the world would MB put this offensive gesture on a premium car?
The fake quad exhaust (tips only) says it all. Why in the world would MB put this offensive gesture on a premium car?
Member
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 123
Likes: 7
From: Long Island
2005 E55 AMG, 1999 Lexus LS 400
My suspicion (I can't call it more) has always been that these large increases in power (by Audi and BMW, as well) are due entirely to re-tuning the engines to restore full power. In other words, the ordinary engines are de-tuned -- a lot! There is something very suspicious about a torgue curve that is flat from 1600 RPM to 4000 RPM. Back in the 1960s, I read Road & Track every month. Whether the test car of the month was a Renault or a Ferrari, the torgue curve was never flat! It was always a bell-shaped curve. Restoring the bell-shaped curve is all that the high-priced, specialty shop needs, in order to acquire a reputation as auto wizards. The manufacturers have to deny these engines to the mass of owners because of CAFE -- Corporate Average Fuel Economy. They can produce only so many full-power engines and still meet the CAFE standards. The law of supply-and-demand then takes over, resulting in the high price.
Some changes may be necessary to ensure engine reliability at the higher power levels. If all of the ordinary engines could handle those levels, they would be over-engineered. However, assembling an engine by hand will not make it stronger. I think we're past having to worry that production engines are delivered with oil channels clogged with machine chips or even not drilled all the way through to the proper destination of the lubricant! Or that the centers of the main bearings do not lie along a straight line! Perhaps some critical parts have to be made out of better metal. Help me out, you real engineers!
Some changes may be necessary to ensure engine reliability at the higher power levels. If all of the ordinary engines could handle those levels, they would be over-engineered. However, assembling an engine by hand will not make it stronger. I think we're past having to worry that production engines are delivered with oil channels clogged with machine chips or even not drilled all the way through to the proper destination of the lubricant! Or that the centers of the main bearings do not lie along a straight line! Perhaps some critical parts have to be made out of better metal. Help me out, you real engineers!
Trending Topics
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 484
Likes: 67
From: Schonaich, Germany
19 C43 Coupe, XC 60
Tobias Moers, AMG, Chief Executive, Automobile Jan 2017... on whether or not 43's are "real AMGs"....."To be honest, they’re 100% AMG. Every ‘43’ has an AMG-engineering front axle and different steering. Everything is done by us. On the C43, for instance, the suspension and kinematics are changed compared to the C400. There’s a total different mapping of the engine and transmission. You can feel the AMG spirit in every car. My biggest passion is to make sure that every AMG product is a true AMG. Yes, we had a little bit of a misunderstanding in the beginning (with the names). It was confusing for everybody. Marketing wanted to be a little bit careful about AMG, putting the name on there. These same people came back after driving the cars and they said it’s a real AMG — put AMG on it."
Random owner, 63 series, MB Forum... on whether or not 43's are "real AMGs" "43's and 53's are not real AMGs. I am right, and AMG is wrong"
Argument over.
Random owner, 63 series, MB Forum... on whether or not 43's are "real AMGs" "43's and 53's are not real AMGs. I am right, and AMG is wrong"
Argument over.
Last edited by MarcusDubya77; May 1, 2019 at 06:29 AM. Reason: Not going to get into a petty argument with ignorant morons.
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MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Washington DC
No more MB:(
Originally Posted by MarcusDubya77
Tobias Moers, AMG, Chief Executive, Automobile Jan 2017... on whether or not 43's are "real AMGs"....."To be honest, they’re 100% AMG. Every ‘43’ has an AMG-engineering front axle and different steering. Everything is done by us. On the C43, for instance, the suspension and kinematics are changed compared to the C400. There’s a total different mapping of the engine and transmission. You can feel the AMG spirit in every car. My biggest passion is to make sure that every AMG product is a true AMG. Yes, we had a little bit of a misunderstanding in the beginning (with the names). It was confusing for everybody. Marketing wanted to be a little bit careful about AMG, putting the name on there. These same people came back after driving the cars and they said it’s a real AMG — put AMG on it."
Random owner, 63 series, MB Forum... on whether or not 43's are "real AMGs" "43's and 53's are not real AMGs. I am right, and AMG is wrong"
Argument over.
Random owner, 63 series, MB Forum... on whether or not 43's are "real AMGs" "43's and 53's are not real AMGs. I am right, and AMG is wrong"
Argument over.
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 484
Likes: 67
From: Schonaich, Germany
19 C43 Coupe, XC 60
Of course they are going to stand by the branding. How can the C43 which was originally a C450 now modified be "100% AMG". What would that make a 63 car, 150%? Sure they changed the mapping and AMG "influenced" these cars but they are not AMG engines, transmissions, or suspensions. Again, what would you expect from someone who put fake quad exhaust tips on a car to make it more "AMG"?
Last edited by MarcusDubya77; May 1, 2019 at 10:55 AM.
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From: Washington DC
No more MB:(
Thank you for your service.
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 484
Likes: 67
From: Schonaich, Germany
19 C43 Coupe, XC 60
Look, I get it. You have a 43 and believe you have the real thing. I would too if I bought a 43. As for the CEO of AMG, what in the world do you think he's going to say? No, they are watered down AMG products? It's all about branding, right? Monetize the brand and get it out there. They make a lot more money trimming up a 450 into a 43 and tacking on a premium. Understandably, 63's are too expensive for most people so they needed to create a more attainable product. There is nothing wrong with the 43 lines, they're just not equal to the 63's. As for the tips, 63S models have real quad exhausts. Not fake like the 43's. Not sure where you got that from. Arguably for some the 43 is a more practical option, I get that too.
Thank you for your service.
Thank you for your service.
Stay classy.
Last edited by MarcusDubya77; May 1, 2019 at 12:43 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Washington DC
No more MB:(
Originally Posted by MarcusDubya77
Once again, proves my point. Not even worth arguing, because you have no facts to back your argument. Just an very arrogant opinion. You obviously know little about AMG (or its history) other than the fact that you own one..Guess you have to justify something. I understand. Some folks just need to feel special.
Sorry for your hostility. Didn't mean to offend you and didn't want to get personal. You have a very nice car. I just don't think it's a real AMG, but will agree to disagree. On my third 63 BTW.
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iTrader: (1)
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 836
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From: Massachusetts
2018 C43 AMG Brilliant Blue Metallic
u guys realize this guy is a troll and ****ting on all of us right????
all he is doing is trying to get us all in a tiff.
who cares we all love our cars and purchased them for our own reasons.
all he is doing is trying to get us all in a tiff.
who cares we all love our cars and purchased them for our own reasons.
Super Member
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 789
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From: Eastern Massachusetts
2021 E450, 2020 C43, 2015 C300, 2007 C280
Thank you
Thank you for explaining how the torque is limited on turbocharged cars. I remain curious about whether the torque in non-AMG models is limited because of CAFE considerations or because of other considerations, such as control of detonation, that would apply equally to all models. Further, if torque in non-AMG models is indeed not limited because of CAFE considerations, how do AMG and other tuners achieve large increases in torque from engines almost identical to basic models?
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 14,671
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From: unbegrenzt
2017 GLE350 4MATIC
Fuel, spark, valve timing and throttle opening are all controllable electronically today. Accelerator position is a command from the driver, and the carmaker’s software decides the combination of fuel, spark advance, valve timing and throttle opening to deliver to the engine. Thus torque is a decision by the ECU based on the request from the driver via the accelerator pedal. Other parameters are further included in the software, which means current transmission gear, steering wheel angle and vehicle speed.
Torque is easily controlled.
Torque is easily controlled.
