If you actually feel that there are many "equally safe cars out there". for $55-60K Then why are you even considering this brand?

I agree; to some folks this is "top dollar". However, M-B cannot offer every option code in the world as a single option. Packaging is how they achieve a low MSRP. This $60k car in the U.S. would exceed $90K in the E.U.
So, not offering heat on your rear leather is a terrible. But what about the descision to offer heated front seats as standard? (not in Europe) or...
Side curtain airbags all three rows - Standard in U.S. (not in Europe)
2nd row side curtain airbags - Standard in U.S. (not in Europe)
Tele-Aid - Standard in U.S. (not in Europe)
Crash active head restraints - Standard in U.S. (not in Europe)
At the end of the day, your $60k car would be WAY beyond your reach if M-B were to expand their option offerings in the U.S. to include the 1% options. Yes, your car in the E.U. is heated in the rear (with leather) but the base MSRP is more than you would be willing to pay.

What would you choose? Have every option offered in the E.U. at their MSRP? or the U.S. MSRP with 95% of the options?


Lastly, you write: "The arrogance of MBUSA". yet you had a Technical/Design expert" contact you directly to answer your questions. sounds horrible

 

I thought long about this and did a web search; I found this on an M-B website.

http://www.mbusa.com/cda/aboutus/jsp...ge=our_company

"The company sold 248,080 vehicles in the U.S. in 2006, setting the highest sales volume in its history and achieving thirteen years of consecutive sales growth.
1993 - 61,899
1994 - 73,002
1995 - 76,752
1996 - 90,844
1997 - 122,265
1998 - 170,245
1999 - 189,437
2000 - 205,614
2001 - 206,638
2002 - 213,225
2003 - 218,717
2004 - 221,610
2005 - 224,421
2006 - 248,080

That's a 400% increase in 13 years. my question is: If M-B still doesn't understand the luxury car buyer, how does one explain this growth?

This an academic question, not an argument.

 

Those 13 years was when MB watered down the line and added more models, cut corners in quality, etc., marketed to a broader range of people than before.

 

GL you are obviously a MB fan and I respect you for that.. I am not asking them to include heated rear seats as standard. Inf act they added wood steering wheel to leather option just so that they can force customers to pay$500 more to get leather seating but yet took away an option which to me is important. The list of standards you pointed out were also standard in 07 model but yet they managed to offer rear heated seat option.. And of course many of those items on your list are standard in R class and ML class, yet you can get rear seat option if you so choose to. I agree that the MB rep called me back and I did appreciate that.. when I asked him about errors on their website and asked about why they discountinued these option, he had no answer for web problems other than defend it, and his solution for heated seat option was to suggest I buy GL 550. That is why I think they don't get it, asking a customer to spend another $ 10+ K rather than understanding what my requirements are.. just my opinion...

 

Not to mention they added c class, ML class and r class in those 13 yrs. Question is , did they increase their market share on same model class over 13 yrs.. answer probably is no given that Lexus, BMW and Acura grew dramatically in those yrs.

 

Compared to what? What did they do that the Luxury market, as a whole, didn't do? oh yeah...13 consecutive years of growth.

So, are you suggesting that M-B should have NOT marketed to a broader range of people?
Would business be better in 2007 if MBUSA were still selling the 280E, the 420SE and the 300SL to the Polo crowd?

"Watered-down the Line"? comaped to what?
Is the GL550 watered-down?
Is the ML550 watered-down?
is the S-Class watered-down?
Is the Maybach?
Is the CL-Class?
Is the SLR?
Is the SL-Class?
Is the CLS?
Is AMG watered down?

 

I added 6 sales to that number over that period of time but still stand by my statement.

Mercedes Benz sells luxury cars that are innovative and technically well put together (except for a period from about 2000 to 2003 or so.) They offer an excellent product but generally overpriced. Starting with the ML of 1998, they have added several economy models which are called Mercedes Benz but are hardly luxury cars...the C Coupe's and the C class sedans (the C was no replacement for the 190.) I have driven these cars as loaners and they are not "luxury" cars. However they have swelled the sales figures. The entry level new buyers who purchased them really had no idea of what a real MB should drive and ride like. They brag about the C class sales but I think in my opinion that answers you why the increase in sales figures.

Regardless of how many they have sold, the US buyer is forced by MB to accept many options they may not want or not be able to obtain option they do want. When purchasing one of the highest priced lines in the US, this should not be happening. In my opinion MB does not know how to market their cars in the US to the satisfaction of their customers. We buy them for the ride, the technology and safety, but accept their ineptitude in providing us those features we are willing to spend our money on.

I was at a dealership today and while waiting for my car to be serviced, I spoke with a sales rep. He was very well informed and had sold BMW's and Audi's and has been selling MB's for about 10 years. We discussed the new GL and the conversation got to how they market their cars. He made the same points many on this forum have made. Why in a $40K car (the new C) is there Tex instead of leather, why are those things found in the BMW 3 series as standard not available on the C class as standard or only available if you buy a package or as an option. He said MB makes it hard to compete because they are always having to offer excuses why something is not available. He was genuinely concerned and upset...he said "if we are selling luxury cars, why not offer a luxury car with all the features of the competition." He said some features on the new C are being delayed 2 months so he had lost sales to the 3 series because they can have it now and they are standard.

Perhaps due to high labor costs and supplier problems, MB can only look to "decontenting" and other cost cutting methods to keep the base price of the cars competitive. But anyone who has purchased a MB in recent years knows that the option figure is going to be a big one if you want a true luxury car with all the latest goodies. This is not a new concern...almost every MB owner I talk about has the same complaint about how the car is marketed to them and the difficulties of obtaining what they want on the car they are buying. Most say..."put the options on the car and raise the base price to include them (ala the GL550.)

I don't know how "academic" or "argumentative" this response is but is a stream of consciousness exercise with my humble opinions based on being a satisfied, but sometimes VERY frustrated buyer of MB automobiles...

 

very well put Nevada

 

It's a package. It saves money. Packages are created to offer a grouping of the most popular options for a fraction of the cost of stand-alone., Look at P1 pkg... what would those components cost a customer in England?Besides, I thought that the Wood/leather steering wheel has always been part of leather seating.


M-B USA makes thier money through volume. Specifically through the wholesale of a cars to dealers. Not by "forcing" a customer to pay for options...that's the dealers job They configured a high value car at a nice price which is very popular.

One change I picked-up-on in the BYO which shows that MBUSA is not ignoring the customer or "family": Notice how 3-zone clmate control is offered in the P2 package for $8600. Yet, for 2008 they are also offering this as a stand-alone option for only $990. If they were in the business of "forcing" higher prices on the customer, then why did they offer it as a stand-alone? In the long-term I would guess that 3-zone would affect more people than heating a leather 2nd row seat.

 

All hail, NJ. And, I don't think anyone could have said it better. And, now I have agreed with your opinion

I speak from my experience when I was looking for a GL in Dec and needed one in a hurry since my other car was stolen. Guess what.....with 30 dealers in a 100 mile radius, I couldn't find one GL on a lot that had all the options I wanted and was willing to pay for. I was flexible in exterior colors and some options but had some options as "must have". I had 3 GMs apologize to me when they found how frustrated I was but it was probably more because a sale was walking out of the door. All of them placed the blame squarely on MBUSA. I am not sure where the blame belongs since the dealers order options on cars as they see fit but I am sure if they had more flexibility they would order more options.

I have met quite a few GL owners in the parking lots of malls, restaurants, etc and have conversed with them on the car. All of them have been amazed to look at Keyless Go, Distronic, Wood wheel, and ambient lighting. Yes, even ambient lighting which only comes with leather but these folks had no idea that all these options are available. And, each and everyone of them said that if they had known about these options they would have gotten them. That is what leads me to believe that having one package with higher MSRP will result in higher sales not lower. GL 550 will prove that.

As far as the growth in MB sales, I would like that compared to growth in entire luxury car market in US including BMW, Acura, Audi and Lexus. That should help answer if MB is doing something phenomenal or if they are "just along for the ride".

Lastly (hey, I gotta stop somewhere), I am not sure if any of us on this board truly knows what is "out of reach" for others. So, if MBUSA is trying to market their car to the masses then the rationale for keeping MSRP down by reducing options holds water but it does make the brand non-premium. If that strategy continues, then they will lose the premium market buyers to others who will offer all bells and whistles as standard. Won't happen now, won't happen next year but it will happen. Heck, I would pay extra to have my stitching match my exterior color and will even say thank you afterwards.

 

[QUOTE=GL Fahrer;2339477]It's a package. It saves money. Packages are created to offer a grouping of the most popular options for a fraction of the cost of stand-alone., Look at P1 pkg... what would those components cost a customer in England?Besides, I thought that the Wood/leather steering wheel has always been part of leather seating.


M-B USA makes thier money through volume. Specifically through the wholesale of a cars to dealers. Not by "forcing" a customer to pay for options...that's the dealers job They configured a high value car at a nice price which is very popular.

One change I picked-up-on in the BYO which shows that MBUSA is not ignoring the customer or "family": Notice how 3-zone clmate control is offered in the P2 package for $8600. Yet, for 2008 they are also offering this as a stand-alone option for only $990. If they were in the business of "forcing" higher prices on the customer, then why did they offer it as a stand-alone? In the long-term I would guess that 3-zone would affect more people than heating a leather 2nd row seat.[/QUOTE



I agree 3 zone is good option, at the end of the day nothing is an absolute must, that is why they are called options. To me heated rear seat is as important as 3 zone climate control and leather seating. Just like they made 3zone standalone option why not make rear seat heat also a standalone option like it is on ML and R. By the way in 07s leather seating did not include wood /leather steering and the option in 07 was $ 500 less.

 

Giving credit where it's due, yes, it's great to see 3 zone and lighting and camera, etc. as part of standard package. Kid you I not, I had a spreadsheet with all the options listed when I was shopping and I had a row for each GL I liked with an X against options on it. Compare that to shopping for Lexus where everything was standard with a couple of options. It's not a matter of money but convenience knowing what you are getting upfront without having to take a microscope to the sticker to see what options are on the car.

If I remember correctly, I think MB sells more cars in TX and CA than anywhere else in US so I agree with Fahrer that "3-zone would affect more people than heating a leather 2nd row seat'. Won't matter to those living in MN or IA which sucks.

 

I just priced out a 2008 GL320 exactly like I had ordered my 2007. My 2007 with Distronic and Multicontour seats and all the rest of the items on the 2008 package and individual options matching came to $72850. The 2008 minus the Multicontour seats and a Distronic priced at $900 dollars under the 2007 came to $71950. Add the Multicontour seat figure from the 2007 listing and the 2008 comes to $73150. TILT! What happened to the package savings?

The Wood/Leather wheel was never a part of the Heating Package, it was always listed as an accessory or option at about $540. That is why the Leather Package is $2100 on the 2008 and not $1650 like the 2007, it includes the Wood Wheel.

MB does not package to save the customer money, they package to save MB money.

An academic exercise...

 

All said and done, it would certainly seem as though the MB analysts have probably run all possible permutations of options/packages using past sales data from a number of the suv models to arrive at this years offerings. I can see the guy now with 32 spreadsheets making the justifications to staff on what will be best for bottom line, that's really all that matters. If that analysis shows that net sales are better without rear heat and leather on the 450 then that's the way it will be. The few customers they predict they will lose to RR or BMW because of it is already factored in. Next year they will do the same thing and surprise, rear heat/leather might be back in the offerings. Short term thinking is always easiest. Just my $.02

 

Yep...agree. What is best for MB bottom line, not what is best for the customer. To think otherwise is naive.

 

N.J. created a car (Distronic, Multi-contour and all options) that only a few people have probably EVER created. In todays competitive market, M-B cannot stay in business by targeting the 2% customer, they are looking at the middle of the customer base and giving the most price-value to their needs.....bottom-line. If THEIR needs are different than yours, then that is sad.

True, that 'magic' car with everything installed for $20,000 over MSRP is impossible to find on dealer lots because the customer willing to pay that amount will rarely ever walk through their doors. Those customers will never bring M-B the volumes required to gain market share in the Luxury market.

Am I the only one who see's this? I've never felt so alone in a discussion

"...if you're playing poker and you can't figure out who the sucker is, it's probably you"....I fold.

 

But why isn't it possible for them to have some sort of progrem similar to BMW's Individual (only available on the 7-Series, but you get the idea). They can still package it however they want, but for those who have the time (and money) make it the way they want.

 

Like the little old lady said about her son marching in a platoon..."my boy is the only one in step.."

I think the reason you are alone GL is because your perspective is totally different than the rest of the forum members. You are seeing things from the industry (MB) perspective and we are seeing it from a customer perspective. You can try to explain why MB does what it does, but the result with the buyer is the same...frustration and the inability to get what he wants for a vehicle he is paying probably $60K plus on the average.

In reality MB does NOT know better what their buyers want but thinks they do based on "their bottom line," not the customers needs and wants. Why can BMW, Range Rover, Acura and others offer completely loaded vehicles at competitive prices but MB can't? Porsche will kill you with options but at least you can order what you want. Provide an answer to that situation and you may have a better hand.

 

GL your viewpoints and comments are valid and well appreciated so please stay in the game.
I think it happens that many of the other players here including myself happen to be part of the 2 per center's that want what they want and will pay for it. I guess it's just frustrating not to be able to do that is all. I understand MB's philosophy to target the most lucrative portion of the bell curve. That's OK if it works but it just sucks for the small minority that might want leather interior and let their kid's play with the heat button in the back seats and would pay MB's price to do it.

 

I support that statement 100%...

He adds quality and informative posts and always responds with a well thought-out post...

 

The ability to se and test what you want depends on your dealer and your city. My local dealer is relatively small, low inventory, small amount of options on the inventory. When I ordered my GL450 last year they had one on the lot and it had the Sunroof Package as the only option!

I called them today because I want to test drive a CDI in anything, GL, Ml, R class. None on the lot and none expected for a couple of months (that aren't already sold vehicles). Last Saturday I drove 2 hours to a bigger dealer in a bigger city to test drive a GL320, they had one. But they had a much bigger inventory overall.

I would like to see the Alcantara seating package, None on the lot and none expected.

How can I order the ML CDI I want if I can't test drive it or see the options. It drives me nuts. But I also see their side of the equation. Can't have every possible combination of things available on the lot.

The thing that is really making me mad this year is that they dropped Multicontour Seats as an individual option for the GL and ML. This fact is driving me crazy. I actually tried to buy a 2007 ML320 out of Oklahoma just to get the Multicontour seats but that dealer would not release that truck to my dealer to get the sale. It's a nightmare.

Gorodn

 

I agree 10,000K %

From my perspective, my frustration comes from the fact that I want a certain combination of options and then being told that it's not possible. I am willing to wait for my "custom" car and am willing to pay for it. So why does the maker doesn't allow a la carte ordering for US customers? It's not like they don't offer it to anyone. It's just not offered in US and that's what I find annoying.

 

Thanks for getting it. I appreciate that. The business situation M-B is facing is exactly the same that we face here at the Cracker Factory when we plan shelf space at the local supermarket. There are those that want the low-sodium, multi-grain, butter-flavored, oval-shaped, unsalted crackers in two-packs. But if we don't offer sesame seeds, there will be customers who will buy from those F****** elves at Keebler! Do you have any idea the shelf-life of sesame seed crackers? Fossil records are shorter! We have to offer $2 coupons just to move them at 1/10th the margin.

It's supply and demand. I'll garantee that M-B does NOTknow more than the cutomer, or think so. How can they? But they do know what products and MSRP's sold the most volume last year. By extension, they then create a business model based on that successfull product...not the customer.
To say that M-B "just doesn't care about the customer" means that 250,000 people last year should not have purchased one.

The reality is that record sales growth for 13 straight years is a rather weak argument for change.
But I will admit: "It is fun to vent"

 

All I want is that the option which they offer with MB tex be available with leather.. something they did in 07. heating package is a standa lone option.It has nothing to do with shelf space etc.. I am in consumer product business and I understand what you are talking about.. but it is apples and oranges.. if i asked MB to offer GL 450, GL 320, GL 280, GL 550, and other GLs then yes the shelf space analogy applies.. all I am asking is make heated seat option available for leather seating also. after all the heating coils etc go on seat cushion before the covering is applied... so how is that more shelf space.

I think it has more to do with making sure future customers are forced to buy an option that probably di dnot sell well last year.. whichis wood and leather steering wheel.. so they package it with leather which is probably a popular option and force cusotmers to pay for both.. and all they did was reduce the package price by $ 50. And now by doing what they did, they for sure loose incremntal sales dollars..
hereis the comparision

07

leather seating 1650
heating package 895
total incremental 2545

08
leather package 2100
heating pkg 895 (not possible)

total incremental 2100

lost opportunity for MB $ 445.. or if heating is important then lost opportunity is $ 2100 ( no leather),

Now that is really smart business don't you think??

 

After 30 years of dealing with MB I can say that "MB as a corporate giant in the form of MBUSA does not care about the customer." MBUSA is the least responsive customer service organization I have dealt with. They have a tendency to not listen and furnish canned non-responsive responses. (Perhaps if they cared about the customer more, they would have sold 350,000 units.)

The people on these forums (and other forums) are probably more informed and more conscious of the MB products than the regular car buyer who goes to the showroom and believes everything the dealer tells them. Venting is normal and really the only way to make a point since MBUSA could care less. I also feel that if I can't get the right kind of cracker it is no big thing for $2.99 to go down the drain if I find it doesn't have sesame seeds and I can't get them that way. When one spends big bucks for custom ordered cars, they should be able to obtain them as they want them since EU customers can get them that way.

I have spent a lot of money with MB through the years and I will continue to buy their products as long as I can. I will also continue to preach that their marketing and ordering system is screwed up and they are arrogant.