stickygreen

Our '09 Bluetec has just hit 5k, and I was thinking of getting the factory fill drained out and filling it with some fresh Mobil 1 ESP Formula M 5w40 (factory spec). I have always changed out the original oil relatively early on new cars or rebuilt engines, and am inclined to do so in this case as well.

However, I recall reading a post on this forum about one should not change out the factory fill early on newer MB's for some reason...is this true? I would think that the piston rings should have seated by now at 5k miles.

scottybdiving

My understanding is that they no longer use break-in oil from the factory and it is not necessary. The argument of whether you should change it more often than prescribed is ongoing. I have even seen convincing arguements that suggest it is more harmful to change it more frequently due to certain properties of new oil needing to reach an eqilibrium for peak lubrication. My early diesels required changing every 3K and I would have told someone they were crazy if the suggested waiting until 10K. Who knows? As long as it is under warranty, if you let them do it at their prescribed interval, you should be good.

BeanCounter

I am on the side of changing the oil earlier than required. I get mine changed every 6 months which is about 6,000 to 7,000 miles for me. That is very interesting stuff regarding the equilibrium of the oil. I never have heard anything about that and I hope I am not screwing myself by getting it changed early. I am into boating and with new four stroke outboard motors they make you change your oil after the first 10 to 20 hours of use with the theory being that in case there are any impurities in the oil created during the break-in period you remove them when you change the oil. I personally like your idea of changing it early.

ima55r2

Changing the oil anytime earlier than required is not going to hurt anything since there is no special factory fill. Change it based on your driving conditions or when it makes you feel comfortable.

stickygreen

I didn't think there would be a problem, but also did not know whether MB used a different factory fill on this vehicle.

I will be sticking with the recommended 10k intervals (after initial 2 oil changes at 5k & 10k), as it is well on the conservative side for these cars. In Germany, these have an oil-life monitor that allow up-to 19k change intervals.

We tend to keep our vehicles for a very long time, so I try to have them maintained as if they didn't have any warranty. The 240k e320 has seen 7500-10k mile OCI's with Mobil 1 since it's first oil change...don't recall what MB's oil change recommendations were are the time. The 100k e320 cdi has seen Mobil 1 0w40 with 7500 mile OCI's instead of the factory recommended 13k. Will soon be switching to the new ESP Formula M diesel oil and increasing oil change intervals to 10k miles.

Fourdiesel

There have been LOTS of posts on this subject on this and other forums. The consensus of the most experienced and technically knowledgeable responders is to NOT change the factory fill early. Modern lubrication engineering is MUCH more sophisticated and technical than it was years ago. Many of the changes in lubricant design were driven by emissions requirements, ie some of the old additives poisoned the catalysts used to clean up the exhaust. The lubricant design of diesels is VERY different than gas engines or outboards. The change intervals cannot be compared.
Every M-B diesel engine is run, at the factory, for 25 minutes, with a 'break in' oil. This oil has a special (and technically sophisticated) additive package designed to get all the moving parts coated with the correct chemicals and all 'moving it the right direction' so-to-speak. At the end of this brief run, the oil is removed and the 'first fill' oil is put in (usually Fuchs). This oil is DESIGNED to be in place for 10,000 or more miles (usually more if the car is in Europe). It is NECESSARY for this oil to be in place for the full period so that all the additives have a chance to plate out where they should and react with the 'bare' metal to properly form the films necessary to protect the engine from undue wear in the future.
Your engine will continue to 'break in' for the next 70,000 or so miles. Compression and efficiency will continue to increase for that time.
The additives of the factory fill oil are NOT the same as the additive package in the approved Mobil ESP Formula M '1st change oil'. But these additive packages are designed to complement each other WHEN USED AS SPECIFIED IN THE MANUAL.
Do NOT change the oil early unless you are a qualified lubrication engineer and are VERY certain you are up-to-speed on the Mercedes design requirements.

dgiturbo

Well I have also read both sides of the coin. I personally had mine changed at 3000 miles, and every 5000 since. With 48000 miles on it now, I have never had a low oil light, or consumption issue. The motor fires right up and is very smooth.

As I am the one paying for the car and intend to keep it long term, I need to see more convincing proof that fresh oil is bad, otherwise, Mobil1 ESP every 5000 miles for me.

I have also seen an article somewhere that the Diesel Particulate Filters life is affected by the cleanliness/particles in the oil. That's why Mercedes had Mobil1 develop the Formula M (for Mercedes) ESP with its very low ash content. Check this Mobil 1 website.

By the way, what would be Mercedes reply for new owners that had to have their oil drained to replace the oil sensor or some other repair under recall? Will the dealer add back that special "break in oil" or re use the oil that was drained? My guess is they used fresh oil...

Do what makes your wallet comfortable within the guides of the manual.
Take care.

stickygreen

It all boils down to this...is the factory fill the Mobil 1 5w40 ESP Formula M, or is it a different oil (ie Fuchs)?

Does anybody know FOR SURE?

ima55r2

Did you make this up or can you provide a link to a reputable source like an oil manufacturer, Mercedes, or some news service and not to some car forum, oil reseller, or auto blog, that specifies exactly the factory fill oil for CURRENT MB diesels and how it is different from the M1 229.51.

If there was a real link there wouldn't be lots of posts on the subject and there would be no need for a consensus, just facts.

dgiturbo

+1

An as for the factory fill, all the owners manuals, the underhood stickers and Mobil 1's site indicate ESP Formula M at the factory.

Fourdiesel

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w211...dirty-oil.html

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w211...il-change.html

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w211...ml#post3139528

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w211...ml#post3048738

These should get you started. The Fuchs oil IS the factory fill because Mobil 1 ESP Formula M is ONLY available in the US and the engines are made in Germany.

The point about what the dealer does when replacing a level sensor is a good one: When they replaced mine (both times) the refilled with Mobil 1 ESP Formula M. Probably not quite as good as the Fuchs, but it still works as designed. If they had tried to put the original oil back they would have risked contamination.

The whole point is that it a waste of time and money, with no benefit gained, to change at anything more frequent than the recommended intervals. Now if you DON'T use the 229.51 approved oil, then you ARE your own lubrication engineer and you had better figure out for yourself what the change intervals should be!

I still have several engines that use the oil DELLO [Diesel Engine Lube Oil] by Chevron. I still change these at 3000 mi (or equivalent) intervals. The technology of engines and lubrication has changed A LOT from those days.

ima55r2

Four links to a car forum....strike one.

scottybdiving

Delo is still fine for the most diesel engines. My Silverado requires oil with a CJ-4 (low ash) rating. Delo came out with an oil to meet that spec shortly after I got the truck. The oil change interval on the computer varies with driving conditions. It seems to go 10K in the winter and down to around 6K in the summer. That may be because of all the idling my engine sees during our hot summers.

Wolfgang

The current, as of March 03, 2009, factory filled engine oil for the OM642 with soot particle filter is MB Formula 225.11 5W-30 produced by Exxon Mobil. The Fuchs oil was the factory fill at an earlier time, and is not presently listed by the factory.

http://bevo.daimler.com/bevolistenma...nt_action=show

Global oil specs can be accessed on MB BEVO at http://bevo.daimler.com

Fourdiesel

If you are not going to carefully consider what is published in this and other forums, why are you posting here? I don't 'believe' everything I read either, but if an argument is well reasoned and makes sense with everything else I 'know', I give it a lot of weight. NO ONE is forcing anyone else here to DO anything. Information is information and can be used, or not, as you see fit.

dgiturbo

"These should get you started. The Fuchs oil IS the factory fill because Mobil 1 ESP Formula M is ONLY available in the US and the engines are made in Germany."
True the motors are made in Germany, but..

..give this some thought, is the EPA or whoever allowing shipments of engines filled with oil across the ocean in a freight container?
Wouldn't it be cheaper and less environmental liability to ship them dry and add oil in Alabama?

ima55r2

Wolfgang provided a link to a reputable source. I didn't ask for car forum links, but you gave them anyway. So what's the problem?

CGMKCM

To the OP, my opinion on oil changes.
I change my oil every 5000 miles. With all of the exhaust gas recirculation and emission junk on this engine my oil is pitch black at <1000 miles after the change. Black = soot.
Any supposed waste in regards to molecular anti wear metal bonding etc is offset by a major reduction in soot particles contributing to wear on my engine.
I know all about the 229.51 oils and they have superior soot handling properties etc, superior to what? They are also low ash so that the DPF doesn't clog etc. What do they do to prolong engine life other than being synthetic?
I also have an 01 VW Golf TDI and the oil gets black quickly, again do to EGR and emissions stuff.
On My 01 powerstroke the oil stays brown for >2500 miles on a truck used exclusively for towing, no emissions and almost no soot.
The Powerstroke was desighned for 400,000 mile service life.
What service life is placed on the 3.0 CDI ? Is the MFG looking for an engine to last hundreds of thousands of miles or are the looking at short term stuff like getting past federal emissions standards?
Not a knock on Mercedes but no MFG is posting engine service life any more. If the engine lasts through warrenty and passes emissions through warrenty that is good enough for MB.
I am looking for several hundred thousand miles of service life (one of the key reasons I buy diesels) so in my mind oil is cheap and is one thing I can control to reach my service life goal. I do my own oil changes and use Schaffer's 5-40W 9000 series oil.
I was a diesel mechanic for 27 years so I might over maintain my vehicles and equipment. I also have by-pass oil filters installed on my other diesels and will install one on the MB soon. Am I guarenteed to get hundreds of thousands of miles out of my engines? No but I believe I have greatly improved my chances.
The VW has 160K with no loss of power or compression.

stickygreen

Thank you! Upon further searching of the page, found this:

http://bevo.daimler.com/bevolistenma...&language_id=1

Looks like they do use a special, factory fill "break in" engine oil.

I'll be sticking with the original oil until 10k, as recommended by MB...

neodoc

I happen to agree that the first-fill oil is probably best left in the engine for the recommended amount of time, given the evidence presented thus far. Subsequent oil changes can then be up to the individual, his/her preferences and pocket-book. What has not been mentioned, and, sadly, is a reality is the fact that some MB technicians at the dealerships will actually put conventional oil in your engine instead of the required synthetic, and then keep the synthetic for themselves. This was witnessed by a tech who now owns his own shop and remains MB-certified. It would explain why my GL started to show a Low Oil message after the most recent oil change, with no evidence of a leak anywhere. One would hope that service departments have technicians who are honorable, and most do, but beware so you don't end up with problems down the road resulting from less than honorable practices.

AsianML

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w211...ml#post2328407

dgiturbo

I somehow suspected this practice was going on. There are too many simple errors that show up, such as the Low Oil Light 2 weeks after an oil service on a brand new car.? I am also sure our transmission woes were simpler to fix than it turned out. Eg. After I had my transmission software re flashed, I still had a slight 4-5 upshift issue, and the fix was to add 3 quarts of the new fluid!! Guess what, this is after they had replaced the valve body and refilled the fluid!!! Imagine 3 quarts low from the dealer???

That is why I do as much as I can myself!!

CGMKCM

Does the 05 have the same emissions stuff as my 08?
Does it weigh 6K lbs? Is it rated to tow >6K pounds?
How can I compare Autobahn cruising to towing?
It doesn't look like an apples to apples comparison.

All of these factors on other makes and models are called severe duty and additional maintenance (Sometimes twice as much) is required.
The on board system does not account for towing or a heavily loaded vehicle. I would have more confidence in the system if it did.
I want my GL to last more than ten years, and I use it for towing and as a light truck for hauling.
I still contend that If you do your own maintenance, or can afford for the dealer to do it, and use the GL as a truck, then change the oil more often.
If it is a lease or you trade off vehicles every three years, or you don't haul or tow, then use the onboard sytem.