eric_in_sd

You have to admit it is an entertaining post.

I never thought to whine about the wheel bolts. It's what you're stuck with, no sense in complaining.

N_Jay

Why do the German's use Lug Bolts and everyone else does it wrong?

Have you seen the two-part Porsche bolts where the seating surface does not turn against the wheel?

eric_in_sd

In some regions that is called a "washer".

It is a fine idea, though, as steel has a tendency to gall aluminum. Mite be a good idea to grease the bolt seats, idk.

N_Jay

Its not a washer.
The cone of the lug bolt turns freely on the shaft.
The head face and outer face of the "cone" are flat and fairly polished, so they minimize drag during tightening so the majority of the applied torque is goes directly to bolt tension.

eric_in_sd

Sounds a lot like a washer to me! There are conical washers.

I took off my Datsun 510 a slew of these bolts with a washer permanently on them. They are called "washer bolts" (creative name, right?). How they are made, I do not know. Maybe the threads are forged, with the forging causing the outside of the threads to stick up from the shaft.

N_Jay

OK, if you insist, it is a washer bolt, with a very thick 1 x to 1.5 x bolt diameter) specially shaped washer to fit the spherical seat of a Porsche wheel lug, and an outer surface designed to create minimum friction against the underside of the bolt head.

Sallad

Interested in seeing a pic of these

Sallad

Pretty cool, never seen this before... Thanks

Definitely NOT a washer

N_Jay

Does anyone know if anyone makes something similar for MB lugs?

eric_in_sd

Well, it is pretty thick, I'll grant you that. How thick does a washer have to be before you stop calling it a washer, and instead call it "a spacer whose purpose is to stop a bolt head from rubbing on the surface"?

N_Jay

Well, I don't think anyone not trying to build a meaningless argument would call it a "washer".

Apparently they are known as "Floating Collar Lug nuts".
Porsche seems to be the only one using a "bolt" style.

W205C43PFL

I guess they have to be different. Since we are talking about the different seats, is there an advantage of ball seat over cone seat anyways? Why are there two different seats anyways.

N_Jay

Apparently there are several seat types (Or were over time)>

I am sure some engineer at Porsche had some very good reason to use a spherical seat instead of a cone.
Maybe has to do with early alloy wheels and alloy lug nuts?

W205C43PFL

Hmmm probably.

Sallad

Just to be pretentious... just to be different?

"look, mine are shaped this way, they are sooo much better than yours!"

W205C43PFL

Hmmm I wonder if it is the same Reason as MB's star pattern lug bolt design? Or they just want to keep you out from your own product? Same as using TORX screws or "security" screws on certain major appliances/electronics?

Sallad

Those make sense, the manufactures don't want just anyone inside their devices. Could be high voltage caps inside or other dangerous stuff.

But for a lug bolt, I don't get why they'd be different. When I bought my Benz wheels for my Audi A6, I had to purchase different bolts, as the seats were different than the Audi ones.

tbirdvet

I got a set of two from Amazon

EWK 2 Pcs M14 x P1.5 Wheel Hanger, Wheel Alignment Pin, Rim Stud Pin Guide Tool

N_Jay

I am guessing the much like Torx and "E" (reverse Torx) there are good engineering reasons.
Fastener/tool retention, drive torque without deformation, etc.

Security screws are typically used for that exact reason.

eric_in_sd

Hey, this thread long since degenerated into comedy gold. I was sick with rona and if it weren't for meaningless arguments, I'd gone out of my mind from boredom.

I'll say it again; I bet they were implemented to prevent galling of the aluminum wheel, because that's a better solution than putting in some sort of a seat in the hole in the wheel, which I bet they started doing when they realized they were going overboard on the engineering for something the vast majority of users would never even notice, let alone think about, unless they had to buy a replacement, at which point they would wonder why a lug bolt costs them twenty bucks.

eric_in_sd

I have these or similar. Indispensable.

I wish they were made from steel, though. Speaking of galling, the aluminum has high friction on the bolt holes, making them annoying to insert, even after greasing the threads.

tbirdvet

They are steel

W205C43PFL

I see.

N_Jay

The anodized one are better.

eric_in_sd

Ordered a pair.