Starting problem
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,515
Likes: 628
From: Charlotte NC area
2019 WS222 S450 4-Matic / 2007 W211 E350 4Matic (Sold) / 2008 X164 GL320 CDI
AC compressors usually make a bunch of noise before coming apart, but all the sound insolation on MBs can hide a lot of that.
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 254
Likes: 60
From: Houston, TX
Mercedes Benz 2007 GL450 , 2012 BMW 528i
I'd vote for a starter problem. It is wearable part and every start/crank cycle wears down the bushes.
If same cable harness worked well for initial years, it shouldn't lose its conductivity unless significantly rusted/damaged.
I am not a fan of throwing parts at a problem either, but how else would one diagnose a failing starter.
If same cable harness worked well for initial years, it shouldn't lose its conductivity unless significantly rusted/damaged.
I am not a fan of throwing parts at a problem either, but how else would one diagnose a failing starter.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,515
Likes: 628
From: Charlotte NC area
2019 WS222 S450 4-Matic / 2007 W211 E350 4Matic (Sold) / 2008 X164 GL320 CDI
Cables generally go bad due to coroscorr inside of crimped on ends.
That can be tested by looking for voltage drop from terminal to terminal.
Member
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 111
Likes: 2
2010 GL 550 + 2010 GLK 350
I am willing to buy a multimeter and take it to him in case he doesn't have.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,515
Likes: 628
From: Charlotte NC area
2019 WS222 S450 4-Matic / 2007 W211 E350 4Matic (Sold) / 2008 X164 GL320 CDI
Checking voltage drop can be done with a decent voltmeter.
Checking terminal voltage drop is bet with a pin probe to get a contact through the insulation a few inches from the lug and then see if while cranking there is a significant drop.
Most mechanics are not good with electrical stuff. Maybe find a good auto-electronics shop.
P.S. Weak when hot starters are quite common across brands.
Check cranking speed when it starts and when it doesn't.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,742
Likes: 627
From: Emmett, ID, USA
2007 GL450
In general one should be cautious about throwing parts at a problem, but jeez - changing the starter just isn't that hard. If it hasn't been changed, and the thing has over 100k miles, especially miles with a fair amount of stop-start, heck, you ought to change the starter on general principles.
It took me a while to swap my starter, but I was dropped on my head one too many times as a baby. Actually, I was having my boy do most of the work so he could learn. Who am I kidding, I'm retarded.
After all these comments, I still can't figure out what the actual problem supposedly is with the cables. Anybody can help me understand?
It took me a while to swap my starter, but I was dropped on my head one too many times as a baby. Actually, I was having my boy do most of the work so he could learn. Who am I kidding, I'm retarded.
After all these comments, I still can't figure out what the actual problem supposedly is with the cables. Anybody can help me understand?
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,515
Likes: 628
From: Charlotte NC area
2019 WS222 S450 4-Matic / 2007 W211 E350 4Matic (Sold) / 2008 X164 GL320 CDI
Again, guessing from pervious experience on other cars, the crimped ends for the lugs on each connection point can get some water inside which builds up corrosion, and eventually results in high resistance between the wires strands and the actual connection,
This shows up as a greater than expected voltage drop under high current (staring) and resulting slow starter, and higher starter current and heat..
Junior Member
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: NYC
2007 GL450
Well I think it's the starter for sure on mine.
I went to go pickup a new snowboard in Flushing the other day which is about 30 mins from me.
It was about 45F out so it started pretty quick, maybe 5-8 cranks before it started.
It just so happens the guy I was getting the snowboard from was a mechanic and I went to his shop to pick it up.
When I went to leave the starter cranked one time and then didn't even try again. The guy came over and asked if I need a jump.
I'm like nope this has been happening since I got the car a month and a half ago and I read on the forums it might be the positive lead cable.
He point blank said it's the starter because he works on Mercedes all the time.
Tried cranking it again, only this time it cranked 3 times and died again again.
3rd time was a charm and it cranked 15-20 times before the car finely started.
Now I'll just order the tool to remove the motor mount and do the starter first.
Also a fun little side issue now is that the pos truck is hard as hell to turn at low speed (must be the speed related solenoid) Just ordered one and hope that it fixes the issue...
I really hope this truck doesn't turn into a bottomless money pit!
I'll report back after I change out this starter.
I went to go pickup a new snowboard in Flushing the other day which is about 30 mins from me.
It was about 45F out so it started pretty quick, maybe 5-8 cranks before it started.
It just so happens the guy I was getting the snowboard from was a mechanic and I went to his shop to pick it up.
When I went to leave the starter cranked one time and then didn't even try again. The guy came over and asked if I need a jump.
I'm like nope this has been happening since I got the car a month and a half ago and I read on the forums it might be the positive lead cable.
He point blank said it's the starter because he works on Mercedes all the time.
Tried cranking it again, only this time it cranked 3 times and died again again.
3rd time was a charm and it cranked 15-20 times before the car finely started.
Now I'll just order the tool to remove the motor mount and do the starter first.
Also a fun little side issue now is that the pos truck is hard as hell to turn at low speed (must be the speed related solenoid) Just ordered one and hope that it fixes the issue...
I really hope this truck doesn't turn into a bottomless money pit!
I'll report back after I change out this starter.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,742
Likes: 627
From: Emmett, ID, USA
2007 GL450
Ever notice that we MB owners tend to over-think problems? I think it's cause the vehicles behave weird when stuff goes wrong, and you can get misleading information. Like I said, I think the sluggishness starting is because the system is avoiding putting fuel in the cylinders if it's not cranking fast enough. So you end up chasing down all sorts of rat holes.
A tip: Read up on Mercedes Medic's tool and procedure recommendations. You have to have the special tool, and the stubby combination wrenches really help.
Another tip: Take pictures before you disassemble. The heat shield on the motor mount is nearly impossible to get back in the right orientation. I wish i'd taken pictures. Similar for the heat shield on the starter itself, though that one is easier to put back in.
And another: Change the oxy sensor, if you've got more than about 100kmi on it, while you're in there. It could be just fine, but that oxy sensor is the one that fine tunes the air-fuel mixture, so it's important that it functions right.
A final tip: Don't use the forums to complain. We all know it can be maddening. If you don't want to stick with the beast, then sell it. Or commit to getting it set up right. Either way, don't whine about it. Nobody wants to help out a guy who's all negative.
Another tip: Take pictures before you disassemble. The heat shield on the motor mount is nearly impossible to get back in the right orientation. I wish i'd taken pictures. Similar for the heat shield on the starter itself, though that one is easier to put back in.
And another: Change the oxy sensor, if you've got more than about 100kmi on it, while you're in there. It could be just fine, but that oxy sensor is the one that fine tunes the air-fuel mixture, so it's important that it functions right.
A final tip: Don't use the forums to complain. We all know it can be maddening. If you don't want to stick with the beast, then sell it. Or commit to getting it set up right. Either way, don't whine about it. Nobody wants to help out a guy who's all negative.
Junior Member
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: NYC
2007 GL450
@eric_in_sd
Yeah def tend to overthink it on the MB.
I do however plan on selling this truck as soon as I fix these issues with it, I'll stick to what I know best which are land rovers.
Yeah def tend to overthink it on the MB.
I do however plan on selling this truck as soon as I fix these issues with it, I'll stick to what I know best which are land rovers.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,742
Likes: 627
From: Emmett, ID, USA
2007 GL450
Say what? You sure the repairs you need aren't between your ears? I'm no expert on land rovers, but my impression is they're even worse than M-B.
Get a Toyota or a Ford. If could do it over again, I'd be in a F150. Or maybe Expedition. Dunno. I wouldn't buy the GL again, but now that I have it, I'm making the best of it.
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 687
Likes: 26
From: So Cal
07 GL450, 91 NSX, 12 Prius
updates,
Just got the x164 back.. MY2007 with 77500 miles
story goes..
Go to Indy 1st time. found fuse box wires crispy.-rewired changed couple of relays $500 also found power steering reservoir leaking -replaced $300
Go to Indy 2nd time. 3 weeks Indy changed CPS still didnt start everytime. Indy narrow down to DME/ECM issue have to send x164 to dealer. MB wont sell DME to Indy. Didnt charge any money.
at dealer for 3weeks - found no or low fuel pressure. Change fuel pump relay $300
Tow back to dealer the same day - No start again.
at dealer for another week - found problem with DME not sending signal consistently to fuel pump relay at rear fuse block need to order reman DME and program
at dealer for another week- X164 picked up and is now back home for daily use. replace DME/ECM and rear fuse block. $2200
apart from the above cost I also change sparkplugs, main battery and mass air sensor DIY and parts cost of $350.
Lets hope it will last for a couple years.
Just got the x164 back.. MY2007 with 77500 miles
story goes..
Go to Indy 1st time. found fuse box wires crispy.-rewired changed couple of relays $500 also found power steering reservoir leaking -replaced $300
Go to Indy 2nd time. 3 weeks Indy changed CPS still didnt start everytime. Indy narrow down to DME/ECM issue have to send x164 to dealer. MB wont sell DME to Indy. Didnt charge any money.
at dealer for 3weeks - found no or low fuel pressure. Change fuel pump relay $300
Tow back to dealer the same day - No start again.
at dealer for another week - found problem with DME not sending signal consistently to fuel pump relay at rear fuse block need to order reman DME and program
at dealer for another week- X164 picked up and is now back home for daily use. replace DME/ECM and rear fuse block. $2200
apart from the above cost I also change sparkplugs, main battery and mass air sensor DIY and parts cost of $350.
Lets hope it will last for a couple years.
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 687
Likes: 26
From: So Cal
07 GL450, 91 NSX, 12 Prius
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 20
Likes: 1
From: Lagos
2008 ML63 AMG
Just came round to thank all the people that contributed positively to this post, I've had this issue with my 2008 ML63AMG, sluggish startup ever since I got it, by the time I came across this thread the car wouldn't even start up again so from this post I was able to understand the issue and located the right wire for my car, part number 164 540 36 30 $30 on ebay brand new, by this time I had already gone through a brand new battery and a used starter motor. This cable was changed a few minutes ago and the difference was immediately clear, that cable was dead as I had not been able to start the car in two weeks. Now startup is fast and instant! So, many thanks to all the contributors.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,515
Likes: 628
From: Charlotte NC area
2019 WS222 S450 4-Matic / 2007 W211 E350 4Matic (Sold) / 2008 X164 GL320 CDI
Just came round to thank all the people that contributed positively to this post, I've had this issue with my 2008 ML63AMG, sluggish startup ever since I got it, by the time I came across this thread the car wouldn't even start up again so from this post I was able to understand the issue and located the right wire for my car, part number 164 540 36 30 $30 on ebay brand new, by this time I had already gone through a brand new battery and a used starter motor. This cable was changed a few minutes ago and the difference was immediately clear, that cable was dead as I had not been able to start the car in two weeks. Now startup is fast and instant! So, many thanks to all the contributors.
Member
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 111
Likes: 2
2010 GL 550 + 2010 GLK 350
Just called the dealership today to get a quote and they said they don’t think a cable is usually the problem and they don’t usually change cables of GL series
they said starter or battery could be the problem
asked for 150$+tax (cad) for diagnosis
130$(cad) or 180$(cad) for cables (apparently there is two cables, one from battery to the power distribution box, other from the box to starter) and 3 hours of labor (450cad) to change either
To replace the starter, part+labor was 670cad
i don’t know where to begin
even they asked me which cable i want changed
they said starter or battery could be the problem
asked for 150$+tax (cad) for diagnosis
130$(cad) or 180$(cad) for cables (apparently there is two cables, one from battery to the power distribution box, other from the box to starter) and 3 hours of labor (450cad) to change either
To replace the starter, part+labor was 670cad
i don’t know where to begin
even they asked me which cable i want changed
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,515
Likes: 628
From: Charlotte NC area
2019 WS222 S450 4-Matic / 2007 W211 E350 4Matic (Sold) / 2008 X164 GL320 CDI
Just called the dealership today to get a quote and they said they don’t think a cable is usually the problem and they don’t usually change cables of GL series
they said starter or battery could be the problem
asked for 150$+tax (cad) for diagnosis
130$(cad) or 180$(cad) for cables (apparently there is two cables, one from battery to the power distribution box, other from the box to starter) and 3 hours of labor (450cad) to change either
To replace the starter, part+labor was 670cad
i don’t know where to begin
even they asked me which cable i want changed
they said starter or battery could be the problem
asked for 150$+tax (cad) for diagnosis
130$(cad) or 180$(cad) for cables (apparently there is two cables, one from battery to the power distribution box, other from the box to starter) and 3 hours of labor (450cad) to change either
To replace the starter, part+labor was 670cad
i don’t know where to begin
even they asked me which cable i want changed
Testing a cable is a no brianer for anyone with a brain.
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 20
Likes: 1
From: Lagos
2008 ML63 AMG
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 40
Likes: 6
From: Dallas, tx
2007 Mercedes-Benz GL450
updates,
Just got the x164 back.. MY2007 with 77500 miles
story goes..
Go to Indy 1st time. found fuse box wires crispy.-rewired changed couple of relays $500 also found power steering reservoir leaking -replaced $300
Go to Indy 2nd time. 3 weeks Indy changed CPS still didnt start everytime. Indy narrow down to DME/ECM issue have to send x164 to dealer. MB wont sell DME to Indy. Didnt charge any money.
at dealer for 3weeks - found no or low fuel pressure. Change fuel pump relay $300
Tow back to dealer the same day - No start again.
at dealer for another week - found problem with DME not sending signal consistently to fuel pump relay at rear fuse block need to order reman DME and program
at dealer for another week- X164 picked up and is now back home for daily use. replace DME/ECM and rear fuse block. $2200
apart from the above cost I also change sparkplugs, main battery and mass air sensor DIY and parts cost of $350.
Lets hope it will last for a couple years.
Just got the x164 back.. MY2007 with 77500 miles
story goes..
Go to Indy 1st time. found fuse box wires crispy.-rewired changed couple of relays $500 also found power steering reservoir leaking -replaced $300
Go to Indy 2nd time. 3 weeks Indy changed CPS still didnt start everytime. Indy narrow down to DME/ECM issue have to send x164 to dealer. MB wont sell DME to Indy. Didnt charge any money.
at dealer for 3weeks - found no or low fuel pressure. Change fuel pump relay $300
Tow back to dealer the same day - No start again.
at dealer for another week - found problem with DME not sending signal consistently to fuel pump relay at rear fuse block need to order reman DME and program
at dealer for another week- X164 picked up and is now back home for daily use. replace DME/ECM and rear fuse block. $2200
apart from the above cost I also change sparkplugs, main battery and mass air sensor DIY and parts cost of $350.
Lets hope it will last for a couple years.
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 687
Likes: 26
From: So Cal
07 GL450, 91 NSX, 12 Prius
Newbie
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 6
Likes: 16
From: Winchester, VA
2009 GL550
I've had this issue as well. 2 years ago my wife was having starting problems, usually at the worst time - at the store. Jump start would solve the problem. So it was a no-brainer that I needed a new battery. Right?
Replacing the battery with a brand new over-priced dealer equipped battery did in fact solve the problem of dead-battery. It did NOT solve the problem of hard cranking on a warm/hot engine. My guess is the original battery was okay, albeit a bit weak, but was getting excessive drained due to the hard turnovers.
A few months back, I took it to a new dealer who immediately advised the problem would be solved with a new battery. BS. After explaining the details (which they later pieced together after going through prior dealer notes) - they agreed it wasn't the battery. Left it an extra few days so they could "test ideas" on it. They changed the wiring harness as a "try", to no use.
There's enough incidence of this happening that surely MB knows about but is not passing the info down to dealers. I've heard two items which, due to heat expansion, could be the culprit:
- Vapor Lock (Cranking Exertion): Increasing kinetic energy required to crank engine during starting - more energy than cold cranking. Don't recall where this cause was though to be, perhaps in exhaust outlet ports?
- Vapor Lock (Fuel Deprivation): Fuel Pump related issue
- Camshaft Timing Sensor
Thoughts?
@hbush You changed so many things, not sure how you conclusively know it's the harness and not the fuel pump for example. Unless you are saying you changed only harness and it was fixed, then subsequently changed other components for other reasons.
Replacing the battery with a brand new over-priced dealer equipped battery did in fact solve the problem of dead-battery. It did NOT solve the problem of hard cranking on a warm/hot engine. My guess is the original battery was okay, albeit a bit weak, but was getting excessive drained due to the hard turnovers.
A few months back, I took it to a new dealer who immediately advised the problem would be solved with a new battery. BS. After explaining the details (which they later pieced together after going through prior dealer notes) - they agreed it wasn't the battery. Left it an extra few days so they could "test ideas" on it. They changed the wiring harness as a "try", to no use.
There's enough incidence of this happening that surely MB knows about but is not passing the info down to dealers. I've heard two items which, due to heat expansion, could be the culprit:
- Vapor Lock (Cranking Exertion): Increasing kinetic energy required to crank engine during starting - more energy than cold cranking. Don't recall where this cause was though to be, perhaps in exhaust outlet ports?
- Vapor Lock (Fuel Deprivation): Fuel Pump related issue
- Camshaft Timing Sensor
Thoughts?
@hbush You changed so many things, not sure how you conclusively know it's the harness and not the fuel pump for example. Unless you are saying you changed only harness and it was fixed, then subsequently changed other components for other reasons.
Cheers,
Atreides
2009 GL550
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 40
Likes: 6
From: Dallas, tx
2007 Mercedes-Benz GL450
In our case, replacing both batteries under the passenger seat got us back to quicker cranking and starts. We're at about 96,000 miles on our 2007 GL450. Powertrain seems fairly bulletproof, but lots of other crap can nickel and dime you to death, especially if you don't do you your own work.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,742
Likes: 627
From: Emmett, ID, USA
2007 GL450
Mine suddenly got noticeably slow to crank at about 120k miles. I went nuts trying to figure out the problem. Finally changed the starter, and heck - it starts without even cranking now.
Super Member
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 699
Likes: 128
From: NE OHIO
1998 SL500,2011 GL550,2009 ML350,past 1995 E320 Cabrio ,2005 ML500,2006 ML500,1996 SL500,1972 280SEL
Starter wire replacement
I have read thru all the older and newer post. I have a 2008 GL550... I have replaced the 6 month old battery because of hard starts ... I have recently purchased the $90 starter wire and getting ready to replace it . Has anybody personally replaced the cable harness ? Looking for any tips on how to pull it thru..etc. Thanks Bill
