DennisG01

I've been searching my butt off and haven't been too successful at finding the info. I'm going to call my local dealer and ask them, but I was curious what the forum's consensus is on this topic.

For my engine, it says to use the 229.51-rated oil. But what about the 229.52? From what I understand (please correct me if wrong), the 229.52 is specifically developed for engines with DPF filters and helps them to burn/stay cleaner. For example, Mobil 1 ESP 0W-30. Is it worthwhile to use 229.52, or is that maybe for the newer generation DPF's? In other words, is it better to use this oil for my engine, or is it not really necessary?

Plutoe

Don't use anything that is not speced my MB---If you have a 640 or 642 with a DPF then the oil spec is 228.51 LowSPAsh!!

DennisG01

The newest "required" spec is 229.51 (I "think" it is for any diesel engine, starting with 2007?). However, 229.52 is also low SPAsh. But the question is whether or not the .52 is a better oil for my '08 diesel, or is it something that's required for the newer diesels and doesn't really make a difference for my engine.

I called the dealer, and he (honestly) admitted he didn't really know what the difference was between the .51 and .52. The carry the Mobil ESP 0W-30 229.51 -- which is what I was planning on using, anyways.

I'm probably splitting hairs here with the comparison. I know that I'm totally fine using 229.51, really just curious about the 229.52 and if there are any "real" benefits.

EDIT: I just checked Mobil's website. It looks like Mobil 1 ESP 0W-30 now also carries the .52 approval with it now being labelled Mobil 1 ESP X1 0W-30. I don't know how "new" that is and whether that's on shelves, or not. Will find out soon.

DennisG01

So I went by the dealer to pick up the 0W-30 ESP. Got home and opened the box... wrong stuff. It was the Mobil 1 0W-30 Advanced Fuel Economy version... No "MB Approval" at all on it, much less the proper one for the 3.0L Diesel as it only says "for gasoline engines". So back to the dealer I go and mention that I was given the wrong stuff by mistake.

The answer was "No, that's the right stuff. It's the same thing that comes in all the new Mercedes and it's what we put in every diesel we work on". A tech happened to stop by (seemed interested in the conversation) while the parts guy and I were discussing it. I said that, although maybe I'm wrong, it's my understanding that the ESP formula is specifically designed for diesels with certain additives to contain the soot and also to help the DPF burn cleaner. The tech looked at both of us and while he didn't actually say anything, he nodded his head to agree.

The parts guy was very cordial about everything (as was I), but I asked him to show me a document from Mercedes showing that the Fuel Economy version was OK to use. He took some time going through the papers, but stated that he couldn't find any hard evidence to back-up his statement.

I returned the oil, stating that if THEY would be doing the oil change, and then I suffered some engine damage (that could somehow be traced to the wrong oil), that's one thing. But since I'm doing it, it sure would be a lot harder to prove that the wrong oil caused the damage. Granted, it would likely be hard to prove the oil caused the damage anyways. But the type of damage would more likely be a cumulative damage over time.

He said "good point" and happily returned my money. I did keep the (Mann) oil filter as it was only about $2 more than online. Close enough for me and I keep my money local.

If you're still reading this... I went to three other parts stores in the area and no one carries the ESP. So... Amazon to the rescue! About $49 for a case of 6. Ordered two.

marc hanna

Personally, I don't even like the regular Mobil 1 0w30 in gasoline engines - it seems to foam a lot.

But, yes you did the right thing. You do not want that in your diesel. It will bung up your DPF.

I bought a case of 12 bottles of 0w30 ESP at Monarch Oil for $108CAD.

The dealer here sells the MB branded 229.52 oil. It's $10CAD/liter. I'm sending off oil analysis on each to see which provides better protection in real-world use.

ddruker

I also buy the new spec mercedes branded oil through Amazon. Price is about half of what my local dealer wants for it. Buy two boxes and you have a couple of quarts left over to add when your level drops between changes. I switched from Mobil 1 ESP when Mercedes came out with the updated spec last year.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...A2KP3IL9AY5EQ9

DennisG01

Interesting. My local dealer doesn't carry oil with the Merc sticker on it - just Mobil 1. I wonder which brand oil is inside the bottle?

My dealer's price was actually pretty good (about $9/qt), just the wrong stuff.

Marc, I'll be very interested to hear the results of your oil analysis. Did you get a baseline analysis, as well?

marc hanna

I've got three equally spaced tests done on my last oil change interval. So I have excellent baseline and progressive data.

DennisG01

That's good thinking of doing multiple tests on the same oil. I never thought of doing that! I've only ever done it at oil change time. Except for one time while tracking down an issue in another vehicle.

I imagine an oil analysis is not going to measure how clean the DPF is staying, though? Also just a guess... the difference from one quality brand of oil to one that is specifically designed for keeping the DPF clean might be negligible?

marc hanna

The measure of how clean the DPF is the pressure differential. The best protection for the DPF is disabling the EGR.

It would be worth figuring out if the computer records the values over time.

DennisG01

And... if we could monitor those numbers? Or, is the computer just looking for a certain differential value and when that number is reached it then throws a code? In other words, is there a linear progression of values that can be monitored, or is more like just "flipping a switch". I'm not sure if I'm clearly explaining my thought.......

DennisG01

Maybe I don't fully understand the operation of the EGR... I thought it's job was to put exhaust gasses back into the combustion chamber (before going into the exhaust system) to be burned again/more completely. Wouldn't that LESSEN the contaminants going out through the exhaust system?

marc hanna

I understand what you're saying. I'll have to do a little investigating.

marc hanna

No, quite the opposite.

The exhaust gasses are circulated back in to reduce the combustion temperature, thereby reducing the the production of nitrogen oxides. This in turn causes more soot, thus requiring the DPF.

DennisG01

Ah. Got it. Thanks!

marc hanna

According to this spec sheet updated January 2016, 229.51 spec is not permitted for your vehicle.
Only 229.52 is permitted

http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/d/d/en/Spec_223_2.pdf

DennisG01

My engine is 164.822. I pretty sure that means I fall under the "With DPF" & "164 Except" category. Which would match with other references I've seen. Am I reading that wrong?

marc hanna

That's what it looks like to me. Are you certain yours is a 164.822?

DennisG01

I believe so. I've entered my VIN on a number websites (assuming they're correct), such as this one:

http://carinfo.kiev.ua/cars/vin/merc...uster?v=164822

marc hanna

That is an excellent site! More detail on the VIN than other sites. It indicates mine as the .122 variant.

I'm going to continue with the 229.52 spec though, just because it is a higher spec that covers off all the rest, and it is applied retroactively to models prior to its advent.

DennisG01

I agree. Whether it's truly beneficial or not, who knows. But I don't see a downside of using it. The oil I bought now carries the .52, as well.

paaan

From:
https://www.oilspecifications.org/mercedes_mb.php

lkchris

I think it's easiest to assume 229.52 has replaced 229.51.

You'll note 5W-40 Mobil 1 Formula M is no longer available, replaced by 5W-30 Mobil 1 ESP Formula

The purpose of the replacement is improved fuel economy.

If you want to get this oil cheaper, order Mercedes part number 001 989 37 01 USA6 from a Mercedes dealer selling online, e.g. mbdirectparts.com

I think these paragraphs from Wikipedia explain it ...

CK-4 and FA-4 have been introduced for 2017 model American engines.[13] API CK-4 is backward compatible that means API CK-4 oils are assumed to provide superior performance to oils made to previous categories and could be used without problems in all previous model engines (but see Ford below).

API FA-4 oils are different (that is why API decided to start a new group in addition to API Sx and API Cx). API FA-4 oils are formulated for enhanced fuel economy (presented as reduced greenhouse gas emission). To achieve that, they are SAE xW-30 oils blended to a high temperature high shear viscosity from 2.9 cP to 3.2 cP. They are not suitable for all engines thus their use depends on the decision of each engine manufacturer. They cannot be used with diesel fuel containing more than 15 ppm sulfur.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil

mbdiesel12

I just looked at a Delo link for 10w40. Looks like it has an approval for 228.51 not 229.51.

isstay

Shell Rotella T6 - inexpensive alternative. Recently Chrysler approved it for JEEP GC Diesel after replacing who knows how many engines in it due to 5W-30 requirement (and it was only Mobil 1 5W-30 ESP, which I was getting from NAPA (was made in France) or Pennzoil EURO formula). And GC has same emission crap like any MB (DPF, AdBlue) and the engine is same high end diesel engine. Oil changes are every 10000 miles and I do not see any issues.