P0422
#1
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P0422
got this code triggering the Check engine light checked out through star. Showing catalytic converter of the right cylinder bank. Showing its the kat and not necessary to replace either oxygen sensor from right back. Any thoughts?
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Scot Cressman (09-26-2020)
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backdoc4you (05-14-2020)
#5
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P0430
GL450x164 my 2011 GL450 is reading P0430 CATALYST SYSTEM EFFICIENCY BELOW THESHOLD BANK 2. The car has 85k miles and seems to be running well minus some vibration at low rpm when accelerating (not sure if dirty spark plugs or intake manifold).
My mechanic said the flapper code for intake manifold malfunction was stored last time I was at shop and I should probably get new manifold within a year.
Do I really need a new right catalytic converters or is the code a side effect from defective intake manifold? The CEL light is on. Seems premature for catalytic converter to fail. Any thoughts welcome. Thanks
My mechanic said the flapper code for intake manifold malfunction was stored last time I was at shop and I should probably get new manifold within a year.
Do I really need a new right catalytic converters or is the code a side effect from defective intake manifold? The CEL light is on. Seems premature for catalytic converter to fail. Any thoughts welcome. Thanks
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GL450x164 my 2011 GL450 is reading P0430 CATALYST SYSTEM EFFICIENCY BELOW THESHOLD BANK 2. The car has 85k miles and seems to be running well minus some vibration at low rpm when accelerating (not sure if dirty spark plugs or intake manifold).
My mechanic said the flapper code for intake manifold malfunction was stored last time I was at shop and I should probably get new manifold within a year.
Do I really need a new right catalytic converters or is the code a side effect from defective intake manifold? The CEL light is on. Seems premature for catalytic converter to fail. Any thoughts welcome. Thanks
My mechanic said the flapper code for intake manifold malfunction was stored last time I was at shop and I should probably get new manifold within a year.
Do I really need a new right catalytic converters or is the code a side effect from defective intake manifold? The CEL light is on. Seems premature for catalytic converter to fail. Any thoughts welcome. Thanks
It's possible your plugs are fouled, but you'd have P codes that would reflect this. P03xx.
I got a 420 error 35k miles ago. I ran cat cleaner (Guaranteed to Pass) through the tank and saw the errors twice again, and passed smog. I never got around to changing that sensor. Cats do get fouled. If my cats are going bad, they aren't doing so very quickly.
The post cat oxy sensors check the effectiveness of the cat. If you don't have pre-cat errors, e.g. sensor fault or mixture fault, the system is honestly reporting cat inefficiency. I would definitely try cleaning them before replacing, as doing so is expensive. Depending on your state, you may be able to get an aftermarket cat welded in. If you go factory parts, you have to replace a lot of the exhaust. I think it's exhaust manifold back to a junction about six feet down.
Because the post cat oxy sensor is what is being used to trigger the 430 error, it's unlikely that anything upstream, besides the cat, is causing it. It's possible it's the post cat oxy sensor, which is a cheap thing to test with parts.
Not sure, but I'd guess your tumble flap (intake manifold) is responsible for the low rpm roughness. There are fixes for this that do not involve replacing the entire manifold. You simply replace the broken linkage.
So if I were you, I'd, in order:
1) clean the cats
2) replace the post cat oxy sensor(s)
3) replace the cat(s)
Also get that tumble flap linkage fixed. It's not an expensive fix.
If you don't have one, get a bluetooth OBDII module (<$10) and read codes via Torque Lite (free app for your smartphone).
Good luck, and report back with your results.
Last edited by eric_in_sd; 07-19-2018 at 06:44 PM.
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backdoc4you (05-14-2020)
#7
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Thanks
Thanks so much for response and information. I went by Advanced and purchased Guaranteed to Pass, just poured in tank and well let it run its course. We shall see if that does the trick.
10-4 regarding spark plugs and intake manifold, that does make sense that other codes would most likely be stored if the intake manifold were causing that much mixing issues. I may replace plugs around 100k, but will probably look at one first before doing all 8. My wife’s X3 were solid carbon black at 63k due to short distance travel and grandma-like driving!
Regarding intake manifold fold I’ve seen thoughts that the flapper issue caused internal damage (pieces etc) to manifold over time and that replacement is ideal given labor required to access the intake. Other is that the repair kit works well and saves $. I was leaning towards replacement but may evaluate repairing further now per your suggestion.
I live in Louisiana so aftermarket cats are good to go here, I got 2 year inspection sticker today with check engine on ha. One benefit of the backwards state I suppose. I’ve seen replacement catalyst for like $280 on rock auto and a muffler mechanic near my office said he would do $150-250 labor.
I will investigate testing the o2 sensor and post updates. Hoping cleaning or O2 sensor may save the day.
Thanks again
10-4 regarding spark plugs and intake manifold, that does make sense that other codes would most likely be stored if the intake manifold were causing that much mixing issues. I may replace plugs around 100k, but will probably look at one first before doing all 8. My wife’s X3 were solid carbon black at 63k due to short distance travel and grandma-like driving!
Regarding intake manifold fold I’ve seen thoughts that the flapper issue caused internal damage (pieces etc) to manifold over time and that replacement is ideal given labor required to access the intake. Other is that the repair kit works well and saves $. I was leaning towards replacement but may evaluate repairing further now per your suggestion.
I live in Louisiana so aftermarket cats are good to go here, I got 2 year inspection sticker today with check engine on ha. One benefit of the backwards state I suppose. I’ve seen replacement catalyst for like $280 on rock auto and a muffler mechanic near my office said he would do $150-250 labor.
I will investigate testing the o2 sensor and post updates. Hoping cleaning or O2 sensor may save the day.
Thanks again
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Alrighty looks like the ‘Gauranteed to Pass’ treatment did the trick. Poured bottle and a half into tank Thursday evening when tank was at about 70%. CEL stayed on Friday, cranked it up Sat morning and what do you know, no CEL. Hoping it stays, gave it an Italian tune up also a few times.
Today I checked the air filter which was filthy, and spark plugs had carbon deposits on them so I went ahead and changed air filter and plugs with Denso Iradium plugs. The vibration under load at low rpm is now gone! Still feels a little low on power at low rpm under load but heard the intake manifold may fix that, but no wobble/vibration like before. Hoping I put the coil pack boots down hard enough and won’t have any misfires.
Ill reset the codes soon and see if P0430 comes back stored or on CEL. The previous owner of this vehicle was a female who most likely putted around town short distances and never got the engine above 2000rpm. Wondering if the catalyst cleaner and some Italian tune ups will help the catalysts breathe.
Photos of plugs and air filter attached. Noticed some black grease on transmission pan, grease mainly towards rear of pan but on all four corners I think. I touched and black dry grease, no red in sight or drips to be found. Will keep an eye on this, anyone’s thoughts welcome. I would think my mechanic would have said something about this as he went over the whole car not long ago closely (Indy Mercedes/bmw mechanic).
Hopefully won’t be posting again that CEL back
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Top plug looks fine. Next plug is kinda bad but not that bad. It's alarming to see the plugs different. Since you put in new plugs, check them in a thousand miles or so. You get weird plugs on the hot side when there is a fuel injector problem and one cylinder runs lean, or cold (black) when there is a spark problem. I'm surprised you didn't have a 3xx error with one plug looking like that.
Hope you kept track of which plug came from which cylinder. I sharpie the numbers on the insulators.
Air filter isn't that bad, but it's so easy to change, there's little point in skimping. Note that with paper filters, dirty doesn't let more dirt through, but actually less, and resistance to flow worsens. So it's not as injurious as it might seem. The mass airflow sensor and upstream oxy sensor compensate for the resistance to flow.
Grease on the rear is commonly due to seepage out the cam hole plugs in the back. Nothing to be alarmed at, though the plugs and separator are a ridiculously easy thing to change.
The CEL will take a while to reset because the computer needs an interval of good performance to be assured it's actually fixed. I always reset errors after making a change, so as to quickly find whether the problem is fixed. Regardless, preliminary congratulations on positive results.
Hope you kept track of which plug came from which cylinder. I sharpie the numbers on the insulators.
Air filter isn't that bad, but it's so easy to change, there's little point in skimping. Note that with paper filters, dirty doesn't let more dirt through, but actually less, and resistance to flow worsens. So it's not as injurious as it might seem. The mass airflow sensor and upstream oxy sensor compensate for the resistance to flow.
Grease on the rear is commonly due to seepage out the cam hole plugs in the back. Nothing to be alarmed at, though the plugs and separator are a ridiculously easy thing to change.
The CEL will take a while to reset because the computer needs an interval of good performance to be assured it's actually fixed. I always reset errors after making a change, so as to quickly find whether the problem is fixed. Regardless, preliminary congratulations on positive results.
#10
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Thanks, I’ve read about cam plugs so refreshing to hear there’s not a major nightmare in the pipeline. May look into replacing those soon.
It’s 103 degrees here so I wasn’t as detail oriented as I could have been so didn’t label plugs. I went and looked at all of them again and they all are pretty similar (pic may make it look drastic), two are perhaps less coated. Thinking about running Techron through as a precaution to clean the injectors. Will check back in 1000 or so miles to see what it looks like.
Noted with the filter, interesting! Will keep you updated on CEL and codes
It’s 103 degrees here so I wasn’t as detail oriented as I could have been so didn’t label plugs. I went and looked at all of them again and they all are pretty similar (pic may make it look drastic), two are perhaps less coated. Thinking about running Techron through as a precaution to clean the injectors. Will check back in 1000 or so miles to see what it looks like.
Noted with the filter, interesting! Will keep you updated on CEL and codes
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You also can get adapters that you put each injector in and spray carburetor cleaner through, after energizing the injector. This calls for you to remove the injectors, of course.
#12
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Well the honeymoon didn’t last, a few hours later the shaking came back followed by CEL with P0172 / P0175. Turns out after some research I didn’t fasten air filter assembly on mass air flow sensor tight enough and this can throw those codes. I re fastened and think that fixed it P0172/175, I’ll confirm tomorrow once I get new OBD in mail.
Regarding shaking, it’s back and I think it’s an ignition coil going out. My wife’s X3 had this happen but it was much more pronounced, which makes sense given 1/6 cylinders were going out instead of 1/8 like on GL. The X3 didn’t register the misfire for a while after it started then finally threw CEL. My former Tahoe never had this, when coil pack went out it went out, there was no ‘on way out’ syndrome and code was clear and blinking.
Think the wobble/shaking under load is coming from the failing ignition coil, it may also explain the uneven spark plug wear and the catalyst code on bank 1 since this failing coil may be dumping fuel into catalyst.
Since bank 2 is drivers side, thinking defective coil may be on this side. How else can I test the coils since no codes are registering? Wouldn’t want to replace all four due to price but am eager to fix before ruining catalyst and the shake is aggravating. Should have marked plugs coming out! Wish misfire would register with computer also. I don’t see how switching coils around will help since there is no code.
Let me know thoughts. Interesting with running Techron through, never thought Of running idle and may have to try running it through as said.
Regarding shaking, it’s back and I think it’s an ignition coil going out. My wife’s X3 had this happen but it was much more pronounced, which makes sense given 1/6 cylinders were going out instead of 1/8 like on GL. The X3 didn’t register the misfire for a while after it started then finally threw CEL. My former Tahoe never had this, when coil pack went out it went out, there was no ‘on way out’ syndrome and code was clear and blinking.
Think the wobble/shaking under load is coming from the failing ignition coil, it may also explain the uneven spark plug wear and the catalyst code on bank 1 since this failing coil may be dumping fuel into catalyst.
Since bank 2 is drivers side, thinking defective coil may be on this side. How else can I test the coils since no codes are registering? Wouldn’t want to replace all four due to price but am eager to fix before ruining catalyst and the shake is aggravating. Should have marked plugs coming out! Wish misfire would register with computer also. I don’t see how switching coils around will help since there is no code.
Let me know thoughts. Interesting with running Techron through, never thought Of running idle and may have to try running it through as said.
#13
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Honeymoon - lol, you're trying to avoid divorce court.
If you have intermittent failure on a coil, you should get pending 3xx errors. Remember, the system doesn't know what's actually happening when it fires the coil. If the power output from the motor is uneven, it will tell you so via the crankshaft position sensor; it's reading that the engine abruptly slows at a certain point in the cycle. I doubt that engine roughness you can feel is not resulting in a code.
Lubricate the air filter assembly clips with silicone grease. They clip onto these rubber posts, and it's easy for the clip to get bent. If they're lubed, you'll have an easier time wiggling around the air filter assembly. Same goes for how the MAF sensor fits in the elbow, etc.
170-175 are MAF sensor errors, meaning the system can't make sense of what it's reading from the sensor and how it's calibrating the mixture with the upstream oxy. You either need to clean the MAF or you have a leak past the MAF - 2 & 5 are "rich", which, considering you had a leak past the MAF, means it's telling you it's putting an unreasonable amount of fuel in, given what the MAF is telling the system.
I would not change a coil until you have a good idea which one is the culprit. Get that bluetooth OBD reader in and watch for codes. Since you seem to be the curious sort, I'd also recommend getting a computer like the MBII from Icarsoft. It's basically a step short of full on STAR. Just don't leave it plugged in; I drained a battery doing that.
Don't stress too much about the cat. If the system registers a misfire, it will go into limp mode, shutting off fuel to that cylinder. At least I think that's what it does.
If you have intermittent failure on a coil, you should get pending 3xx errors. Remember, the system doesn't know what's actually happening when it fires the coil. If the power output from the motor is uneven, it will tell you so via the crankshaft position sensor; it's reading that the engine abruptly slows at a certain point in the cycle. I doubt that engine roughness you can feel is not resulting in a code.
Lubricate the air filter assembly clips with silicone grease. They clip onto these rubber posts, and it's easy for the clip to get bent. If they're lubed, you'll have an easier time wiggling around the air filter assembly. Same goes for how the MAF sensor fits in the elbow, etc.
170-175 are MAF sensor errors, meaning the system can't make sense of what it's reading from the sensor and how it's calibrating the mixture with the upstream oxy. You either need to clean the MAF or you have a leak past the MAF - 2 & 5 are "rich", which, considering you had a leak past the MAF, means it's telling you it's putting an unreasonable amount of fuel in, given what the MAF is telling the system.
I would not change a coil until you have a good idea which one is the culprit. Get that bluetooth OBD reader in and watch for codes. Since you seem to be the curious sort, I'd also recommend getting a computer like the MBII from Icarsoft. It's basically a step short of full on STAR. Just don't leave it plugged in; I drained a battery doing that.
Don't stress too much about the cat. If the system registers a misfire, it will go into limp mode, shutting off fuel to that cylinder. At least I think that's what it does.
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I can deal with high maintenance just not the complicated mood swings! The search continues. Re fastened the air filter assembly correctly and that got rid of the P017xx codes, started running like a champ.
Drove smoothly to work and felt very smooth responsive. CEL turned off after a little while. I received my OBDII and downloaded OBD Fusion, I could start to feel the d%$n misfire again. Will run well then intermittently misfire. Hooked up my new OBD/fusion and cleared the stored codes which I had already seen. None pending or stored, but I did look at the Mode $06 Onboard Monitoring and it showed Cylinder 3 misfiring although no P03— code.
Bought new ignition coil and installed tonight, still misfiring! I did third cylinder down on passenger side from front bumper to firewall as this is what I can tell is Cyl3.
Screen shot attached, what are thoughts?? Will consider that Icarsoft!
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CEL turned off after a little while. I received my OBDII and downloaded OBD Fusion, I could start to feel the d%$n misfire again. Will run well then intermittently misfire. Hooked up my new OBD/fusion and cleared the stored codes which I had already seen. None pending or stored, but I did look at the Mode $06 Onboard Monitoring and it showed Cylinder 3 misfiring although no P03— code.
Fix the tumble flap before you do anything else.
I don't know how to interpret those screen shots. Three misfires per driving cycle? That's start-stop cycle? We're talking 1000's of revs per minute. Three would thus be nothing. I'd say, if the computer isn't kicking out even a pending code, you're probably fine.
It could be a semi-plugged injector on #3. Try running the Techron, etc., through at idle. Ventilate your garage and leave it idling. If your OBD app tells you cat temperature, check that. Also oil temperature, but the cooling system is more than robust enough to tolerate extended idling. I wouldn't sweat it - meaning don't stand there in your hot garage like a nervous mother.
I understand that Techron only contains PEA; you can find it in lots of other tuneup-in-a-bottle products. I convinced myself that Gumout was the best PEA-for-the-buck product.
The MBII has graphing various data feeds, all kinds of Benz specific stuff.
Don't go by what the CEL does or doesn't do. Use it as an indicator to check your codes, and when you make a change, clear the codes. Driving around waiting for the light to turn off is unnecessary stress.
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mcoady1 (07-24-2018)
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mcoady1 (07-24-2018)
#18
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85K on the GL, I finally caved and dropped it off at European mechanic since they have SD and I'm running out of time before a road trip this weekend. They suspected the intake manifold when I talked to them this morning, but I haven't gotten the call back for what is actually going on. Once I do I will update thread.
I kept the coil I took off so will be able to use that if/when another goes out. I even moved the new spark plug from Cyl3 to Cyl1 this morning, once I started the vehicle it was misfiring and did finally throw the P0303 code. The screenshot is from OBD Fusion app hooked up to wifi OBD2, the $06 onboard data did log those misfires and the other cylinders had 0 (screenshot is before P0303 registering).
If they call and say dirty injectors I'll definitely try the Techron before ripping into anything. Thanks again for everyone's support here.
I kept the coil I took off so will be able to use that if/when another goes out. I even moved the new spark plug from Cyl3 to Cyl1 this morning, once I started the vehicle it was misfiring and did finally throw the P0303 code. The screenshot is from OBD Fusion app hooked up to wifi OBD2, the $06 onboard data did log those misfires and the other cylinders had 0 (screenshot is before P0303 registering).
If they call and say dirty injectors I'll definitely try the Techron before ripping into anything. Thanks again for everyone's support here.
#19
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Almighty, got the call back from the mechanics. They believe it is a leaky fuel injector causing the misfire.
They ran smoke tests, compression test, tested electronics behind injectors, moved coil packs around, etc.; and they said it is most likely a leaking fuel injector causing misfire at idle. While the recommended the intake manifold be replaced soon, they said the misfire is not from the manifold but rather the injector. The manifold is not registering codes to OBD but on DS they said they could see internal flap flapping around. They said Cyl1 is also registering misfires.
They are suggesting placing all injectors and the rail. How big of a pain is it to replace the injectors? Would the techron/Gumout help a leaking injector vs dirty injector? They said to do the manifold and injectors at the same time.
Why the hell would injector(s) fail at 85k?
They ran smoke tests, compression test, tested electronics behind injectors, moved coil packs around, etc.; and they said it is most likely a leaking fuel injector causing misfire at idle. While the recommended the intake manifold be replaced soon, they said the misfire is not from the manifold but rather the injector. The manifold is not registering codes to OBD but on DS they said they could see internal flap flapping around. They said Cyl1 is also registering misfires.
They are suggesting placing all injectors and the rail. How big of a pain is it to replace the injectors? Would the techron/Gumout help a leaking injector vs dirty injector? They said to do the manifold and injectors at the same time.
Why the hell would injector(s) fail at 85k?
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Almighty, got the call back from the mechanics. They believe it is a leaky fuel injector causing the misfire.
They ran smoke tests, compression test, tested electronics behind injectors, moved coil packs around, etc.; and they said it is most likely a leaking fuel injector causing misfire at idle. While the recommended the intake manifold be replaced soon, they said the misfire is not from the manifold but rather the injector. The manifold is not registering codes to OBD but on DS they said they could see internal flap flapping around. They said Cyl1 is also registering misfires.
They are suggesting placing all injectors and the rail. How big of a pain is it to replace the injectors? Would the techron/Gumout help a leaking injector vs dirty injector? They said to do the manifold and injectors at the same time.
Why the hell would injector(s) fail at 85k?
They ran smoke tests, compression test, tested electronics behind injectors, moved coil packs around, etc.; and they said it is most likely a leaking fuel injector causing misfire at idle. While the recommended the intake manifold be replaced soon, they said the misfire is not from the manifold but rather the injector. The manifold is not registering codes to OBD but on DS they said they could see internal flap flapping around. They said Cyl1 is also registering misfires.
They are suggesting placing all injectors and the rail. How big of a pain is it to replace the injectors? Would the techron/Gumout help a leaking injector vs dirty injector? They said to do the manifold and injectors at the same time.
Why the hell would injector(s) fail at 85k?
If the injector is leaking out past the o-rings, heck, that's an easy fix. Change the o-rings. But you'd know from gasoline stink around the motor when it's idling, and this shouldn't cause any misfire.
If it's leaking because the injector is sticking open - not closing all the way - absolutely first try running fuel injector cleaner through. Go pick up the truck and stop by Walmart on the way home and pick up bottles of stuff that says "CONTAINS PEA!" on the label. Run it through; what's the harm? If the patient isn't better by tomorrow morning, then consider surgery.
My motto: Be conservative.
I have no idea whether 2011 injectors are worse than 2007, but these are really, really reliable components. The main thing they do is gum up and not spray the fuel in a fine enough mist. Then you need to run cleaner through it.
To be honest, these guys don't sound like top tier mechanics.
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Thanks, Eric! I actually called them back to say I'd like to pick up the car to figure out plan and he recommended running seafoam/detergent through fuel tank to see if that would work first. He also recommended doing intake manifold ASAP since the inside plastic piece can break off and get sucked into cylinder bending valve. Is it that dangerous for me to drive? I plan to replace within few months but just had front Airmatic strut, valve block, and rear shocks replaced so easing the mass exodus of cash would be nice for a little while at least. When I do get to manifold I'll most likely order from RMT and send back my old one, seems to be of high quality and nice price.
My mistake, I indeed meant DAS, I need to get my abbreviations straight!
If anyone wants to steal my GL it will most likely be idling in the driveway soon.
My mistake, I indeed meant DAS, I need to get my abbreviations straight!
If anyone wants to steal my GL it will most likely be idling in the driveway soon.
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Thanks, Eric! I actually called them back to say I'd like to pick up the car to figure out plan and he recommended running seafoam/detergent through fuel tank to see if that would work first. He also recommended doing intake manifold ASAP since the inside plastic piece can break off and get sucked into cylinder bending valve. Is it that dangerous for me to drive? I plan to replace within few months but just had front Airmatic strut, valve block, and rear shocks replaced so easing the mass exodus of cash would be nice for a little while at least. When I do get to manifold I'll most likely order from RMT and send back my old one, seems to be of high quality and nice price.
It's a little hard for me to imagine the plastic actually bending a valve, unless it props it so far open that the valve contacts the top of the piston on the up-stroke. The plastic could go right into the cylinder and - meh - so it melts and burns away. The cylinder is a violent and hot place. When you get it home, see if you can't jam the tumble flap into one position or the other. The broken lever may still be accessible.
It kills me that in the fourth model year MB still didn't have this straight.
No way. Them things are more trouble than they're worth.
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Run the injector cleaner. You shouldn't have issues with the coil packs or cam magnets at that mileage. The flappy did not cause any issues on my GL. Maybe some low end acceleration but I didn't miss it. Never heard of s whole bank of injectors including the rail going bad on the GL.
If it is an injector seal, I would think you would be able to hear it with a mechanic's stethoscope and or smell the fuel. Good luck but I would do what Eric said above before you throw a bunch of money at the issue.
If it is an injector seal, I would think you would be able to hear it with a mechanic's stethoscope and or smell the fuel. Good luck but I would do what Eric said above before you throw a bunch of money at the issue.
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Thanks and will do. I just bought some bottles of Techron and will put it in vehicle when I pick it up tomorrow AM. ‘Guaranteed to Pass’ is still in tank so may wait for that to run out before adding Techron. Will keep everyone updated.I can’t seem to find another gas GL owner that experienced injector issues, thinking they somehow got clogged and maybe the previous owner put in crap gas.
So the replacement manifolds online still have plastic flaps internally? Mainly don’t want to rip into it if something else in manifold will fail in 30k miles. I’ll confirm which actual flap is having issues.
I’ve only owned this vehicle for two months so still getting caught up on nuts and bolts of manifold other common parts. Thanks again to everyone and will give update.
So the replacement manifolds online still have plastic flaps internally? Mainly don’t want to rip into it if something else in manifold will fail in 30k miles. I’ll confirm which actual flap is having issues.
I’ve only owned this vehicle for two months so still getting caught up on nuts and bolts of manifold other common parts. Thanks again to everyone and will give update.