GL-350 crank over no start
#1
GL-350 crank over no start
Hello I am the proud new owner of a 2011 GL-350 with a 100,000 miles
First assessment it seems to be in excellent condition ,Drives nice and starts well in cold climate .
I now have a" Cranks over but no start " situation
Here is what I know
the last two times I toped off with fuel the reading did not register above 3/4 tank ?
There was several times I went to start and it tuned over with no start after a recycle it started
it ran fine but I might of noticed hesitation once or twice but not enough to get nervous
I was told the fuel filter was changed when I bought it ( I am going to put an OEM one in myself for piece of mind )
I replaced the Crank shaft position sensor But that is not it
checked fuel pump fuses and I am now going to check fuel pump relay
my questions :
1_ if the in tank boost pump is faulty would that make sense with my symptoms ?
2_ is there a way to trouble shoot and then bench test ?
3_if they are known to be faulty is changing it good insurance ( I noticed a new part# does that mean upgraded unit ) ?
4_ would the high pressure pump fail suddenly our does it fail over time
5_ best diagnostic computer for the GL-350 ?
thanks Herb
First assessment it seems to be in excellent condition ,Drives nice and starts well in cold climate .
I now have a" Cranks over but no start " situation
Here is what I know
the last two times I toped off with fuel the reading did not register above 3/4 tank ?
There was several times I went to start and it tuned over with no start after a recycle it started
it ran fine but I might of noticed hesitation once or twice but not enough to get nervous
I was told the fuel filter was changed when I bought it ( I am going to put an OEM one in myself for piece of mind )
I replaced the Crank shaft position sensor But that is not it
checked fuel pump fuses and I am now going to check fuel pump relay
my questions :
1_ if the in tank boost pump is faulty would that make sense with my symptoms ?
2_ is there a way to trouble shoot and then bench test ?
3_if they are known to be faulty is changing it good insurance ( I noticed a new part# does that mean upgraded unit ) ?
4_ would the high pressure pump fail suddenly our does it fail over time
5_ best diagnostic computer for the GL-350 ?
thanks Herb
#2
Out Of Control!!
A--do you have spark and B--do you have rail fuel pressure and C--do you have the tools to even try to determine answers to those questions!!
#3
The GL-350 is diesel (no spark )
I ordered a special fuel test kit for this , there are two fuel pumps
1: Boost pump in the tank
2: High pressure pump on the engine ( the one I hope I don't have to change $$$$ )that feeds the fuel rail
this Machine is new to me so I am going to learn what I can before
tearing into it
I am going to invest in a good Scan tool or PC based software that speaks
MB...BMW and Land Rover so I can move into the new century .
Any advise on scan tools would be welcome
Thanks Herb
I ordered a special fuel test kit for this , there are two fuel pumps
1: Boost pump in the tank
2: High pressure pump on the engine ( the one I hope I don't have to change $$$$ )that feeds the fuel rail
this Machine is new to me so I am going to learn what I can before
tearing into it
I am going to invest in a good Scan tool or PC based software that speaks
MB...BMW and Land Rover so I can move into the new century .
Any advise on scan tools would be welcome
Thanks Herb
#4
Super Member
The GL-350 is diesel (no spark )
I ordered a special fuel test kit for this , there are two fuel pumps
1: Boost pump in the tank
2: High pressure pump on the engine ( the one I hope I don't have to change $$$$ )that feeds the fuel rail
this Machine is new to me so I am going to learn what I can before
tearing into it
I am going to invest in a good Scan tool or PC based software that speaks
MB...BMW and Land Rover so I can move into the new century .
Any advise on scan tools would be welcome
Thanks Herb
I ordered a special fuel test kit for this , there are two fuel pumps
1: Boost pump in the tank
2: High pressure pump on the engine ( the one I hope I don't have to change $$$$ )that feeds the fuel rail
this Machine is new to me so I am going to learn what I can before
tearing into it
I am going to invest in a good Scan tool or PC based software that speaks
MB...BMW and Land Rover so I can move into the new century .
Any advise on scan tools would be welcome
Thanks Herb
#6
I ordered the AutoEnginuity's Scan tool software and Mercedes expansion module .
I just bought a New OTC Genisys touch ( It is useless on the GL and on my BMW
and on my rover ) Don't buy one with out trying first .
If this doesn't work I will get the star unit .
Are there any parameters in particular on the engine module I should look for ?
The engine ran perfect then one mourning Crank but no start ?
I just bought a New OTC Genisys touch ( It is useless on the GL and on my BMW
and on my rover ) Don't buy one with out trying first .
If this doesn't work I will get the star unit .
Are there any parameters in particular on the engine module I should look for ?
The engine ran perfect then one mourning Crank but no start ?
#7
it (probably) have errors you can use to pinpoint issue.
star/ das can provide a myriad of actual values that will help you (like fuel pressure at primary pump and secondary pump, glow plug condition, water content in fuel filter, etc.)
the 3/4 tank could be a faulty evaporative canister which will explain the no-start condition. this can also be troubleshot with star/ das. however, it also could be a sticking level sensor(s) and it that case it has nothing to do with your no-start condition.
star/ das can provide a myriad of actual values that will help you (like fuel pressure at primary pump and secondary pump, glow plug condition, water content in fuel filter, etc.)
the 3/4 tank could be a faulty evaporative canister which will explain the no-start condition. this can also be troubleshot with star/ das. however, it also could be a sticking level sensor(s) and it that case it has nothing to do with your no-start condition.
Last edited by alx; 03-15-2017 at 10:51 AM.
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#8
alx ... witch star /das diagnostic unit do I need for my car (2011 GL-350 )
I have seen so many versions available .
Can you recommend a good source for purchase ?
and it will give me my fuel pressure values on the primary side and on the fuel Rail ?
If so then that saves me from having to measure it mechanically )
Assuming that my primary Boost ( in Tank fuel pump )is faulty can that cause a sudden no start ?
I have read in a few places that several in tank boost pump failures were proceeded
by the fuel tank sending unit acting strange.
I just want to learn more about this system (OM642 )and get the right scan tool & software and get comfortable with it before I rip it apart .
I have seen so many versions available .
Can you recommend a good source for purchase ?
and it will give me my fuel pressure values on the primary side and on the fuel Rail ?
If so then that saves me from having to measure it mechanically )
Assuming that my primary Boost ( in Tank fuel pump )is faulty can that cause a sudden no start ?
I have read in a few places that several in tank boost pump failures were proceeded
by the fuel tank sending unit acting strange.
I just want to learn more about this system (OM642 )and get the right scan tool & software and get comfortable with it before I rip it apart .
#9
Can you recommend a good source for purchase ?
and it will give me my fuel pressure values on the primary side and on the fuel Rail ?
Assuming that my primary Boost ( in Tank fuel pump )is faulty can that cause a sudden no start ?
I have read in a few places that several in tank boost pump failures were proceeded by the fuel tank sending unit acting strange.
#10
I have a new fuel filter on its way(OEM its the one with the pre heater )the dealer I bought this car from said they put a new one in but until I do it I won't cross it of my list.
Also ordered a new fuel pump for good measure ( there has been a upgraded unit from Mercedes ) when investigating under the back seats I noticed the port side (Drivers side) access panel to the tank had been removed once .
the passengers side ( were the fuel pump is located was un touched )
I want to check my values on the pump before I pull it .
I signed on to startekinfo for some light reading ( wow again wow ) I saved as much info as possible so I can go back and start rapping my head around this .
I am investigating what the drivers side in tank unit is for, I am learning that now
( return swirl pot of some sort not sure if it is a different setup then the gas jobs )
finding the right diagram in Web ETM is half the battle .
I want to open up the tank after just to see the condition then I will install the new pump ( pumping out and cleaning if necessary )
The engine ran perfect no starving or hesitation the next mourning Crank no start
So I will be waiting for the scan tool software to get here meanwhile I will be slogging thru all the good info I pulled of startek.
thank you HCF
Also ordered a new fuel pump for good measure ( there has been a upgraded unit from Mercedes ) when investigating under the back seats I noticed the port side (Drivers side) access panel to the tank had been removed once .
the passengers side ( were the fuel pump is located was un touched )
I want to check my values on the pump before I pull it .
I signed on to startekinfo for some light reading ( wow again wow ) I saved as much info as possible so I can go back and start rapping my head around this .
I am investigating what the drivers side in tank unit is for, I am learning that now
( return swirl pot of some sort not sure if it is a different setup then the gas jobs )
finding the right diagram in Web ETM is half the battle .
I want to open up the tank after just to see the condition then I will install the new pump ( pumping out and cleaning if necessary )
The engine ran perfect no starving or hesitation the next mourning Crank no start
So I will be waiting for the scan tool software to get here meanwhile I will be slogging thru all the good info I pulled of startek.
thank you HCF
#11
Update
here's what I know
first : the fuel filter is the water level style not the heater type ( just for the record )
my no start condition is because my Boost pump ( in tank primary ) is not cycling on .
I have power to terminal# 30 at Relay F4 in the boot fuse block
when I close that circuit the pump energizes allowing me to start the vehicle .
So working backwards following the relay control circuit to CAN bus C ,
I now am going to check the next culprits ( Fuel pump control Module onward )
My software should arrive today then with a little learning curve and some luck I hope to narrow it down
I am under the assumption that this pump modulates if so then does the Quantity Control Valve on the High Pressure Pump control this ?
If that is bad the whole thing will make sense because the last thing I did was change the Oil and I cleaned around the oil filter housing with brake clean ( the QCV is right there )
..... FOR THR RECORD the OTC Geneses Touch fully updated is useless on my GL-350
any insight on were to look is greatly appreciated I will up date when I have something to report
HCF
here's what I know
first : the fuel filter is the water level style not the heater type ( just for the record )
my no start condition is because my Boost pump ( in tank primary ) is not cycling on .
I have power to terminal# 30 at Relay F4 in the boot fuse block
when I close that circuit the pump energizes allowing me to start the vehicle .
So working backwards following the relay control circuit to CAN bus C ,
I now am going to check the next culprits ( Fuel pump control Module onward )
My software should arrive today then with a little learning curve and some luck I hope to narrow it down
I am under the assumption that this pump modulates if so then does the Quantity Control Valve on the High Pressure Pump control this ?
If that is bad the whole thing will make sense because the last thing I did was change the Oil and I cleaned around the oil filter housing with brake clean ( the QCV is right there )
..... FOR THR RECORD the OTC Geneses Touch fully updated is useless on my GL-350
any insight on were to look is greatly appreciated I will up date when I have something to report
HCF
#12
I was going to guess glow plug relay or module but you saying no juice at fuel pump is probably it. When I bleed my fuel filter (key to 2 position, start button removed), it bleeds fuel like 3 gallons a minute!
I use a Star C4 (4 Benz products in the house), and it is beyond awesome. The stuff you can do and troubleshoot is awesome, so much I will keep driving Benzs so I can easily work on them.
I use a Star C4 (4 Benz products in the house), and it is beyond awesome. The stuff you can do and troubleshoot is awesome, so much I will keep driving Benzs so I can easily work on them.
#13
I am going to try Auto Enginuity the pc based scan tool with the Mercedes
expansion module . I know the BMW and Land Rover guys like it .
Hopefully it will arrive today and I can chase down my issue on the fuel pump. I will give it a try But I am sure I will eventually end up with
the star unit .
Question
1: when the low pressure fuel system functions normally what device modulates the Boost Pump ( in tank pump ) ?
2: I believe one of the devises is the Quantity Control Valve on the high pressure pump ?
3: also the fuel Temp sensor and the Restraint system send info to the CDI witch controls the fuel pump Control Unit ?
Has anybody changed out there Fuel Pump control Unit ?
It will be nice when I get the scan tool so I can stop guessing , Hopefully I can decipher the Info
HCF
expansion module . I know the BMW and Land Rover guys like it .
Hopefully it will arrive today and I can chase down my issue on the fuel pump. I will give it a try But I am sure I will eventually end up with
the star unit .
Question
1: when the low pressure fuel system functions normally what device modulates the Boost Pump ( in tank pump ) ?
2: I believe one of the devises is the Quantity Control Valve on the high pressure pump ?
3: also the fuel Temp sensor and the Restraint system send info to the CDI witch controls the fuel pump Control Unit ?
Has anybody changed out there Fuel Pump control Unit ?
It will be nice when I get the scan tool so I can stop guessing , Hopefully I can decipher the Info
HCF
#14
I am going to try Auto Enginuity the pc based scan tool with the Mercedes
expansion module . I know the BMW and Land Rover guys like it .
Hopefully it will arrive today and I can chase down my issue on the fuel pump. I will give it a try But I am sure I will eventually end up with
the star unit .
Question
1: when the low pressure fuel system functions normally what device modulates the Boost Pump ( in tank pump ) ?
2: I believe one of the devises is the Quantity Control Valve on the high pressure pump ?
3: also the fuel Temp sensor and the Restraint system send info to the CDI witch controls the fuel pump Control Unit ?
Has anybody changed out there Fuel Pump control Unit ?
It will be nice when I get the scan tool so I can stop guessing , Hopefully I can decipher the Info
HCF
expansion module . I know the BMW and Land Rover guys like it .
Hopefully it will arrive today and I can chase down my issue on the fuel pump. I will give it a try But I am sure I will eventually end up with
the star unit .
Question
1: when the low pressure fuel system functions normally what device modulates the Boost Pump ( in tank pump ) ?
2: I believe one of the devises is the Quantity Control Valve on the high pressure pump ?
3: also the fuel Temp sensor and the Restraint system send info to the CDI witch controls the fuel pump Control Unit ?
Has anybody changed out there Fuel Pump control Unit ?
It will be nice when I get the scan tool so I can stop guessing , Hopefully I can decipher the Info
HCF
a star/ das will allow you to look into all the modules, read actual values and actuate functions and when they fail - offer you a decision- based tree troubleshooting with diagrams.
#16
wishful thinking !
Any way after replacing my fuel pump ...It works
fuel gage now reads correctly Pump cycles on with out relay jumped out .
..............I can only assume the old pump was drawing more power then it should . ( so it would only run with the relay jumped out , doesn't make sense )
I don't know for Shure if everything is right but with out star I am guessing
also I can't find my fuel pump control mod. it is not were the info I have says it is ?
this is a 2011 gl-350
Putting the seats back and carpet then I will take it for a ride . I have cycled it on and off half a dozen times and all is well (so Far )
I hope it was just a defective fuel pump and not some mysterious
computer thing .
will update...HCF