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I was finishing up the 60,000 mile service this afternoon and was putting the last wheel back on after bleeding the brakes and noticed that the inside shoulder wear was pretty bad on the front tires. At first I thought it was only the driver side, but it's the passenger side as well. Driver side is more severe, however. These tires only have about 7,000 miles on them and are the OEM Goodyears. I may be off a bit since I run snow tires in the winter so it's sometimes hard to remember without pulling the info from my log book.
Anyway, I just had the car in for the state inspection, and I feel pretty certain they would have said something since they love to find things wrong to give you grief about, which may mean this is a recent thing. The vehicle has exactly 60k on it, and I've never had any issues with tire wear before; they usually wear very evenly so something is amiss. I'm I don't think that there is much you can ajust on these (probably just toe) but what should I look at in the suspension to get such big inside tire wear like this? I've always done my own alignments ( I have all the stuff from racing) but I'm not messing with this thing. Should I take it in for an alignment or is there another step you'd take first? I don't see anything obvious poking around the suspension.
I agree on the camber settings. The inside of my tires wear faster than outside for sure. Not as aggressive as your wear though. The wear is good for 40K miles max on the runflats tire..
Sak, for a guy who did the timing chain swap this should be an easy one!
seriously though it's definitely a camber problem but could be also the height settings in the Airmatic system. Do you have access to a Xentry system? You can run checks on level sensors etc. a slightly lower front end gets a serious negative camber.
I don't have a Xentry, but it or similar has been on my list. I guess I just need to bite the bullet. I've been waffling on buying something Mercedes specific vs. one that can handle BMW as well. Also, I'm shopping for a 911 right now, and don't want to have to buy three different systems for all the cars, but I don't know if that exists. First world problems, I know.
My thought was to take it into a local independent that does Mercedes work and have them check the alignment, and adjust if necessary. Then I can rotate the tires and keep an eye on the wear and see if it's been taken care of. I did go back and check my records and my memory is terrible (no surprise there.) The tires have at least 20k on them, and perhaps as much as 22k. But the wear pattern is still concerning and they only have 5k on them since the last rotation, and that wasn't there when I mounted them in the spring. This is the first vehicle I've owned with air suspension, so I'm still learning. Coil springs and shocks I have mastered, but I don't understand the effect the air system will have on tire wear.
I have noticed that recently when I get in the car, I get a "vehicle lowering" message which seems odd. Why would it be raising itself up while the car is parked?
There's a great suspension shop up here in Allentown that I take all my cars to. Been in business for decades and that's pretty much all they do. A little too far out of your way, though. But find a shop like that - NOT a chain - and they should be able to do a great job for you. Also can tell you how far out it was. Places like this are usually VERY reasonable in terms of pricing, too.
You're right - it shouldn't be raising itself when parked. The first thing that comes to mind are the level sensors. But I think it would be odd for all 4 to be sticky. Can't hurt to spray them with some silicone spray, though - they do start to get "crusty" inside the ball joint. Easy to pop them off and check, too.
I'd probably start by measuring the ground to fender height at each wheel when you park (level ground?). Then measure again right before you start up again. Let's see if it REALLY is raised, or just a malfunction of sensors and/or control module. I can't get into the specifics (on the fringe of my "expertise" here), but I think that's a logical first step - to try and narrow down the variable, anyways.
Last edited by DennisG01; 11-02-2017 at 01:21 PM.
Reason: spelling
I made an appointment for next week to take it to an independent foreign car place that has a rack, and I know they do good work based upon talking to folks I know. I guess we'll see. I like the idea of measuring ride height while it's sitting and I'll check out the ride height sensors too. Appreciate the input.
Originally Posted by DennisG01
There's a great suspension shop up here in Allentown that I take all my cars to. Been in business for decades and that's pretty much all they do. A little too far out of your way, though. But find a shop like that - NOT a chain - and they should be able to do a great job for you. Also can tell you how far out it was. Places like this are usually VERY reasonable in terms of pricing, too.
You're right - it shouldn't be raising itself when parked. The first thing that comes to mind are the level sensors. But I think it would be odd for all 4 to be sticky. Can't hurt to spray them with some silicone spray, though - they do start to get "crusty" inside the ball joint. Easy to pop them off and check, too.
I'd probably start by measuring the ground to fender height at each wheel when you park (level ground?). Then measure again right before you start up again. Let's see if it REALLY is raised, or just an malfunction of sensors and/or control module. I can't get into the specifics (on the fringe of my "expertise" here), but I think that's a logical first step - to try and narrow down the variable, anyways.
OK, so before I did anything hasty, I took it to a local foreign car shop that was recommended to me by a few people that own Euro cars. I want to make clear that this is the first time I have taken a car in for non-warranty work in more than 15 years, so that is how time-limited I am these days. I asked them to check the alignment and they said no problem.
Talked to the lead tech and he said it was off on both camber and toe. Toe was actually out (no wonder it was turning in so well!) and camber was too far negative. He said it's very common, after all, I live in PA which has the worst roads in the country, and I drive small, narrow, back roads and not much highway.
$95, out the door. I'll rotate the tires front to back and keep an eye on it; hopefully it's that simple.
That is so weird my passenger side both front and rear tires have exactly the same wear on inside.... the wheels look straight I cannot understand for the life of me how the tires can wear on the inside edge when wheel is sitting pretty straight, I'll take it in asap
2010 Mercedes GL450; 2000 Mercedes ML55 AMG; 2016 VW GLI SEL Stick!!!
I'm having the same sort of problem as well.
Im having more wear on the outside edge on the front tires as compared to the inner edges.
About 7/32 vs 9/32....
Theyre brand new tires, Pirelli Scorpion Verde All Season +with 7k on them....and even had a alignment done by the local Merchants tire at install...
But I fear thats what I did wrong.... I dont think Merchants has the proper equipment to do a proper OE spec 4 wheel alignment...
OK, so before I did anything hasty, I took it to a local foreign car shop that was recommended to me by a few people that own Euro cars. I want to make clear that this is the first time I have taken a car in for non-warranty work in more than 15 years, so that is how time-limited I am these days. I asked them to check the alignment and they said no problem.
Talked to the lead tech and he said it was off on both camber and toe. Toe was actually out (no wonder it was turning in so well!) and camber was too far negative. He said it's very common, after all, I live in PA which has the worst roads in the country, and I drive small, narrow, back roads and not much highway.
$95, out the door. I'll rotate the tires front to back and keep an eye on it; hopefully it's that simple.
Can you tell me the name of the store? You can send me a message if you prefer. I'm not too far from West Chester. I also need an alignment.
Regarding the bleeder valves on the calipers, what size tubing did you use to bleed your brakes?
In the other thread, you used 75w-90 in your diffs, any issues?
Do you recall if the transfer case fluid is MB 134 or 143? Theres some conflicting info.
Update - I took it in for alignment check and Toe is negative on fronts - Camber was fine.. still dont understand how it can wear ONLY INSIDE SHOULDER not the contact patch area
Update - I took it in for alignment check and Toe is negative on fronts - Camber was fine.. still dont understand how it can wear ONLY INSIDE SHOULDER not the contact patch area
I'm certainly no expert in this area, but... it seems logical that if the toe is too negative, then the inside edges of the tire would constantly be scuffing/wearing harder when going straight down the road?
.. still dont understand how it can wear ONLY INSIDE SHOULDER not the contact patch area
Fact is can try all one wants with Toe IN or OUT directional adjustment (this is all that dealers or alignment shops have to work with – new car industry’s best kept secret)!
The reality is OEM there is no Camber or Caster to change tire contact patch area!
Only having “Toe adjustment” is OK providing vehicles maintained and driven at showroom height – but day to day commuting encountering high cambered roads, altered height through load carrying, lowering, fitting wide profile tires, high mileage/worn bushings, curb knock damage – FULL ADJUSTMENT CAPABILITY IS ESSENTIAL….
CAMBER – Allows to actually change the tire contact angle resolving costly, premature edge wear, improving traction/understeer/oversteer
CASTER – Correctly resolves steering pull, increases steering response. With better turn in and high speed directional control. Along with improved anti dive/lift under brake and acceleration.
We saw the need therefore to re-instate from the early 90’s once again – FULL ADJUSTMENT CAPABILITY. To fix it right the 1st. Time. No more ongoing trips to dealers or alignments shops or constantly changing tire brands.
The unique patented K-MAC design replaces the 4 front (highest wearing) bushings at the same time (and importantly the rear which are prone to premature failure and are expensive to replace).
Providing precise single wrench adjustment – accurately on vehicle (under load) direct on alignment rack.
Similar kit for the rear also replacing the 4 highest wearing bushings and doubling the existing Camber and Toe adjustment range.
Both front and rear kits supplied with instructions and bush extraction tools
W164/X164, W166/X166, W251/C292
Front Camber & Caster kit #504016M $595
Rear Camber & Toe kit #504026K $480
Delivery $30 one kit ($20 each extra kit)
PayPal, Visa or M/Card.
Dealer inquiries welcome.
It seems to have fixed it but I did just switch over to winter tires and have been driving the BMW more lately. The tech that did the alignment said it was definitely off by a good amount and he attributed the wear to that.
I also have front inside tire wear showing at 60K mileage ....where previously, no so much wear. I'm going to have the rubber bushings checked out in the control arms. I suspect if they start to wear, alignment can move around, even after a good alignment in the shop. I've always had my alignment done at the MB dealer and its been within spec everytime.
Who sill install these and actually adjust the alignment.
Originally Posted by K-Mac
Fact is can try all one wants with Toe IN or OUT directional adjustment (this is all that dealers or alignment shops have to work with – new car industry’s best kept secret)!
The reality is OEM there is no Camber or Caster to change tire contact patch area!
Only having “Toe adjustment” is OK providing vehicles maintained and driven at showroom height – but day to day commuting encountering high cambered roads, altered height through load carrying, lowering, fitting wide profile tires, high mileage/worn bushings, curb knock damage – FULL ADJUSTMENT CAPABILITY IS ESSENTIAL….
CAMBER – Allows to actually change the tire contact angle resolving costly, premature edge wear, improving traction/understeer/oversteer
CASTER – Correctly resolves steering pull, increases steering response. With better turn in and high speed directional control. Along with improved anti dive/lift under brake and acceleration.
We saw the need therefore to re-instate from the early 90’s once again – FULL ADJUSTMENT CAPABILITY. To fix it right the 1st. Time. No more ongoing trips to dealers or alignments shops or constantly changing tire brands.
The unique patented K-MAC design replaces the 4 front (highest wearing) bushings at the same time (and importantly the rear which are prone to premature failure and are expensive to replace).
Providing precise single wrench adjustment – accurately on vehicle (under load) direct on alignment rack.
Similar kit for the rear also replacing the 4 highest wearing bushings and doubling the existing Camber and Toe adjustment range.
Both front and rear kits supplied with instructions and bush extraction tools
W164/X164, W166/X166, W251/C292
Front Camber & Caster kit #504016M $595
Rear Camber & Toe kit #504026K $480
Delivery $30 one kit ($20 each extra kit)
PayPal, Visa or M/Card.
Dealer inquiries welcome.
This looks like great solution HOWEVER who will install them and actually adjust them
I was finishing up the 60,000 mile service this afternoon and was putting the last wheel back on after bleeding the brakes and noticed that the inside shoulder wear was pretty bad on the front tires. At first I thought it was only the driver side, but it's the passenger side as well. Driver side is more severe, however. These tires only have about 7,000 miles on them and are the OEM Goodyears. I may be off a bit since I run snow tires in the winter so it's sometimes hard to remember without pulling the info from my log book.
Anyway, I just had the car in for the state inspection, and I feel pretty certain they would have said something since they love to find things wrong to give you grief about, which may mean this is a recent thing. The vehicle has exactly 60k on it, and I've never had any issues with tire wear before; they usually wear very evenly so something is amiss. I'm I don't think that there is much you can ajust on these (probably just toe) but what should I look at in the suspension to get such big inside tire wear like this? I've always done my own alignments ( I have all the stuff from racing) but I'm not messing with this thing. Should I take it in for an alignment or is there another step you'd take first? I don't see anything obvious poking around the suspension.
Photos of both front tires:
Driver's side (USA) front.
Passenger side (USA) front
I have been struggling with this issue on my GL for a while now, it seems to come back after 30k-40k miles. I would do the alignment a new set of tires and then 30-40k later tires will start to wear on the inner edge, this is messed up on so many levels.
I have about the same amount of mileage on my tires and they are wearing very evenly. I do rotate every 5K miles, but I think getting it checked (as noted above in a few posts) by a qualified shop is important.
There is a modest camber adjustment range on the rear. The kits expand that adjustment range. I posted a thread on how to do the factory adjustment. I didn't measure it; I just went as far positive as the eccentric bolt would allow.
I should measure the snow tires now that they're off. Will post back.
Just wanted to post a follow up to folks here I resolved the inner wear issue by replacing all 4 of my tires with Bridgestone H/L Alenza 285/50-R20 by going away from OEM 275/50-R50 size issue resolved. No suspension or alignment was able to resolve this earlier. after 10 months now I have had this set and I already put on 50,000 on them and I still have 4/32nds left on them will be replacing with the same set soon. Good luck people, I think we are all duped in to OEM size with substandard tires. Note that Bridgestone H/L Alenza are not available in OEM size wink wink. The guy at Firesone tried to pushback because I was going 285 from 275, but I told him it will not rub, and yes no rubbing , everything checks out.
10-29-2017, 03:43 PM
