ddruker

2011 GL 350 with 85,000 miles. I use it as a family car plus tow a 30-foot airstream with it.

I took the truck into my local independent Mercedes specialist this week as the truck is squatting in the morning and the rear airbags need to be replaced. My USAA extended warranty is going to expire in four months (I'm almost to the end of year nine of owning the truck), so I asked him to do a comprehensive review to see what else is broken while the warranty is still good.

The list of stuff he found is pretty long. I asked him to break it into three categories -
1) Covered by the extended warranty
2) Not covered, but stupid for me to do myself
3) Not covered, but reasonably doable by an advanced wrencher

What did he find?
In addition to rear airbags both leaking, he found the air compressor and distribution block are both corroding, due to water getting into the compressor's air filter from a cracked air intake pipe and need to be replaced
He found numerous oil leaks from the turbo and downstream of the turbo - he's worried the turbo needs to be replaced
He is trying to isolate the source of a leak in the front of the engine that has leaked oil onto the v-belt, plus the The V belt tensioner and idler pullies are wearing out
The engine and transmission mounts are shot and the motor mount arms are leaking silicon goo - the dealer had already replaced the engine mounts 3 years ago under warranty
The bushings on the control arms on the passenger side are shot
He found a slow oil leak in the rear main seal - he doesn't recommend fixing this
The pinch sensors on the rear hatch are malfunctioning

The truck is worth about $15,000 retail. The above repairs, if completed, could add up to a substantial portion or even more than that. I asked if extended warranty companies ever total a vehicle - he said he's not heard of this ever before.

So it feels like I'm about to face an interesting decision - how much out of pocket am I willing to absorb before just giving up and moving on... Do I leave some of this unfixed and just drive the truck until it dies. Lots will depend on what USAA will cover...

For those of you that have been following my saga here - I've already had more than $30,000 worth of repairs, all covered by warranty and extended warranty thank goodness, on this truck. Oil cooler seals twice, timing chain once, motor mounts, blind spot sensors 4 times, Electronic ignition switch, DEF heater, etc etc etc.

Won't be buying a Mercedes diesel ever again!

Max Blast

Stick the warranty on whatever you can.
Of what the warranty won’t cover; do whatever must be done yourself and and then pass it on.

or just cut and run, over to you.

chassis

Dump the diesel.

DennisG01

It looks like most of the things are not really because it's a diesel - although the turbo would obviously be related. The other two leaks could probably show up on any engine as it ages. I guess all I'm saying is just think it through and see what works best for you - just that it's not "all" diesel related. Personally, I love my diesel - it has been a very good car. A couple issues here or there, but heck, it's 12-year old car.

I think the forums are largely to blame for the diesels getting a bad wrap. I mean, how many people go on a forum to commend their vehicle, you know? Certainly not to belittle anyone with issues - especially ongoing issues as it can be disheartening - but the number of vehicles with "big" issues (other than the established oil cooler, which is repairable) is largely blown out of proportion/exaggerated do to forums.

This is just me being an optimist, but... The turbo leak MAY not need replacing - the seal at the turbo inlet can leak all over. At this point, your mechanic is really just "thinking outloud", right? The leak in the front could be the intercooler pipes - an o-ring could fix that.

BlownV8

This. The problems are not blown out of proportion and have been an issue for a long time. The engine is hugely problematic and very expensive to maintain/repair. With that said, the 320 is a little cheaper since it does not have all the Adblue system components that also break often.

DennisG01

I do not believe it - I just haven't seen high cases of "huge" problems. Coupled with my experience, and other positive comments/reviews, it really does seem like exaggerations. Heck, I think I just saw Alx post that he had a 750,000 mile Sprinter come in the shop with a great running/virtually problem free engine. Certainly not going to get that from a gasser! A few posts here or there doesn't mean it's a problem engine... and the same person posting over and over again only counts as one vote!

DennisG01

Oh, just so I'm clear on my viewpoint, Druker, I'm not trying to convince you one way or the other - just sharing my opinion - as all of this is largely opinion based. In the end, if you feel it's not worth it... then it's not worth it. 100% your call and I wouldn't try to change your mind.

I will add, though, that sometimes we feel overwhelmed by things - especially when it feels like we're being dumped on by a bunch of problems at the same time. I've been there, as well, with some vehicles. Take a step back, give it a few days, and the emotions will settle down so you can make a clearer decision... whichever direction that may be.

BlownV8

You have been on the forum for a relatively short time. If you spend time researching the size and scope of the issues from many forum members posted over the last 13 years, you will see it is not an opinion that the engine is plagued with issues. One variant in a commercial application driven nonstop at hwy speeds is not relatable to stop and go from 99.9% of diesel owners.

I've owned my GL since 2007 and have been an active forum member here for longer than that. The issues are not new nor are they isolated. One by one, many of the same owners who reacted as you do have seen the problems first hand and either ditched their diesel or dropped a ton of cash into their engines. For what most spend repairing oil coolers and turbos, I can drop in a low mileage gas engine and go to whatever mileage I want. So far, 250k on the original engine and still runs fine. It uses no oil between 10k mile oil changes. The only issue is the factory defective balance shaft gear which, even with that for the last 50k miles, it still runs great with a CEL. Just got back from a 4 hr road trip and it performed flawlessly. It runs on super cheap regular unleaded which is around 30% cheaper than diesel where I live so the mileage benefit of the diesel is negated with the cheaper fuel cost.

Max Blast

Blown V8, Off Topic but: I did not know you had the dreaded M273 balance shaft issue - but if I read you correctly it manifested itself at 200K and you're now at 250K with no correction done?

Wrt dumping the diesel to the OP, I cannot agree more - it is a problematic setup. I got rid of my GL320 well before any seals or turbo issues manifested themselves. Don't spend any more of your own money on this.

If it were a GL450/550; I'd say keep it and keep it roadworthy - about the only x164 common issue I see in OP's post is the lower a-arm bushings/airmatic stuff. The fix for that is new OEM quality a-arms and arnott air bags. (~$1100 in parts) Run the compressor as is until it becomes noisy and then exchange it for an Arnott unit (~$300 in parts?). Easy peasy. But I wouldn't do any of this on a diesel x164; BlueTec or not.

ddruker

I've also been on the forum for many years now - so I share the same observations about diesel - my personal diesel engine has been hideously unreliable and would have been ridiculously expensive to fix if I hadn't purchased two different extended warranties over the years - that's $6,000 in well spent extended warranty expense to pay for about $20,000 in repairs at list.

My diesel-engine specific major repairs so far (85,000 miles) have been oil cooler seals twice, motor mounts and mount arms twice, timing chain, DEF tank heater, numerous sensors, and most recently a couple of oil leaks and maybe even a worn out turbo for fun.

I'm a pretty decent wrencher - I've done 100% of the required maintenance myself - and I can easily handle the control arm bushings, belt tensioners and idler pulleys etc if my extended warranty doesn't cover them - but I'm not confident taking on oil cooler seals and timing chains and fried turbos, and my warranty expires in 3 months.

All of this is playing into the keep it or trade it in calculus. I was kind of surprised to see on Edmunds the trade-in value for my GL is only about $8,000. I thought it would be about double that - it's still a very nice truck.

Last night I built a big spreadsheet model for how much the 2019's through 2017's cost and are depreciating - my plan is to compare the annual cost of owning a newer GL450 or GL550 (no way another Mercedes diesel) - to the expected cost of keeping mine running. But based on my past experience, I'm definitely scared to own this truck without a warranty... My kids really want me to pick up a 2018 AMG GLS 63 - those have really depreciated quickly...

Max Blast

I too like to live dangerously...I own TWO x164s out of warranty. That warranty for you was a very smart decision.

But I am also ready to DIY everything except for 722.9 internals related stuff.

BlownV8

Correct, nothing done to it so far. The exhaust timing is slightly off but it does not affect the engine enough to feel a difference but the CEL is on. I was told it was the balance shaft issue but it may just need a timing chain and the VVT sprockets. Either way, it will not be much more money to drop in a 550 engine with low miles. Then, I could put another 300k+ reliable miles. My only hesitation to keep the 164 GL is that I like the safety technology of the X166 GL/GLS. My GL 450 has been the most reliable and cheapest MB I've ever owned long term. I really do love it!

DennisG01

'Bout 5 years here on this forum, but have read alot over the years. I just haven't seen enough to warrant making a blanket statement that the OM642 is a bad engine - including the Jeep forum where there's actually more talk about the OM642 there than here since it was used in some GC's. But, hey, that's why we're all entitled to our opinions!

Blown, just out of curiosity, what type of mileage do you get? When I initially did some searching 5 years ago, there was quite a big difference in fuel economy between the gasser and diesel. I actually get better mileage than posted numbers - maybe the gasser does, too?

Druker... I gotta say, if I was in your shoes... I think I would denounce the entire Mercedes company!

BlownV8

I average around 16.3 mpg but I'm running heavy 22" wheels and tires. Before adding those, I was averaging 17.7 mpg. At the time I made the switch, 19" tires were around $400 each and didn't last more than around 20k to 30k miles. The 22's were plentiful, much cheaper, and lasted 40k to 50k miles.

sak335

So my biggest concern about that list is the turbo related oil leaks, only because they require a bit of digging to get to. If you don't do it yourself, then that's going to be some labor.

The front oil leak is most likely the oil filter mount seals. You can do that yourself in about an hour and replace the idler and tensioner pulleys while you're in there. The seals can be bought off ebay cheap.

Motor mounts and tranmission mounts I can't say as I haven't done them (yet! HA!) but those have been easy on other vehicles I've owned in the past.

I'm at 78,000 miles. Mine is on a boat over to Finland to meet us here but I just did the 80,000 mile service before I left and also did the oil filter leak and pulleys. It's running well and I expect to keep it until it becomes too much of a burden. I wouldn't have spent the $2k to put it on the boat if I didn't think I could keep it running economically (and I will have a heated garage where I can work on it.)

My brother in law has a high mileage 2013 GL450. It's a nicer car overall than the X164 and gets good mileage on the highway, but still averages about 14.5mpg around town. That's also because he drives it like he stole it. He was smart and bought an extended warranty so it hasn't cost him anything in the year he's owned it. I guess it would be easy enough to read the X166 forum for a while to get an idea of the issues they have on them.

DennisG01

Interesting that the wheels made that much of a difference. I would have assumed that they would, but would have thought it would have much less of a difference. Maybe things have changed regarding 19" tires - I put tires on mine for about $800 (for all 4) -- Toyo Versado CUV and have been really impressed with them. Michellins were a couple hundred more but I couldn't justify it. Got about 32K miles on them right now - I'm estimating I'll get somewhere around 45K.

What wowed me about the mileage of the diesel is the highway - 75+mph and I hit 26 to 27 mpg (loaded up with the family and gear)... If I keep the speeds down, 30mpg is attainable. But, let's face it, we don't buy these vehicles for one particular aspect - there's lot's of variables that come into play and the reason we own what we own is because it's the best choice for us.

007_e350

I just had the turbo replaced, it’s $1350 plus 4 or 5 hours labor, total around 2k.
there was a rebuild option - it was around $700 or $800, unless you do it yourself which could be much cheaper
get bushings from fcp euro, they replace everything for free for life- atleast that’s what I did, they have a full front kit for $319

ddruker

Here in the SF Bay area, labor charges, even at my indy, are today approaching $300 per hour. Another reason why the extended warranties are less of a rip-off in very high cost areas like I live in. So that same turbo repair that cost you $2k is closer to $3k here.

I am currently negotiating with my indy on the bushings - he wants to buy the complete new OEM arms including bushings to cover the repair under his 3-year shop warranty. If I was doing it myself, I would buy the Lemforder or Mercedes bushings for $25 each (I don't even need the whole kit) and do them myself at home. The answer will come down to what my extended warranty company will pay for, and if there are a portion of needed repairs they won't pay for that are both very expensive and that I don't feel comfortable taking on.

The financial analysis I did shows the annual cost of depreciation on a newer model (say 2018) used or CPO GLS is about $7000 per year. That makes it much easier to think about the decision whether to fix and keep this truck vs. move to a newer one, at least from an annual cash outlay perspective.

It's a new concept for me to think about "totaling" my GL based on a handful of mechanical repairs and not a collision - I just didn't realize a 2011 GL350 is now only worth about $10k, even at my low mileage. We shall see.

ddruker

Update. My extended warranty from USAA is paying out almost $13,000. Wow.
They had a third-party inspector look at the truck in the shop. The covered repairs that their inspector verified are:
Leaking turbocharger
Leaking rear main seal
Leaking vacuum pump (source of oil leak at the front of the engine)
Destroyed bushings on both front control arms
Leaking rear air suspension bags

My fantasy was that the warranty company would write me a check, which I could keep and then trade-in the GL as is. No joy, the warranty folks will only pay the repair shop.

What an embarrassing disaster the OM642 diesel engine is. I only have 85k miles...

chassis

Good news on the insurance coverage, and sorry to hear about the OM642 experience.

Max Blast

Well now - how do those $13 k in negotiated insurance values pay out for each line item?
You might be surprised at the cost of control arms and bags (when not DIYed) - and these are common to all x164.
With your mileage you're right in the failure window for all of the above.

Good call on that warranty though.

BlownV8

Yes it is! Too bad USAA does not sell the warranty anymore.

ddruker

When I tried to extend my USAA Warranty for another year last month, both the Assurant side (Assurant actually provides the warranty services) and the USAA side said they are negotiating to try to come to an agreement to restart offering the warranties again... It has been 18 months since they stopped, so who knows if they will really do it...

ddruker

I lost two arguments with the shop.
1) I wanted them to press in new Lemforder bushings into my existing control arms (for $50 per side) instead of buying two new Mercedes control arms at $650 each.
2) I wanted them to install a new Garrett Turbocharger for $1,200 instead of a remanufactured Mercedes Turbo for $2,300.

In both cases, the shop won't do it - they won't move off of the parts and procedures specified by the extended warranty company, and they won't press in bushings at all, ever - he won't take on the risk that he might damage the control arms in the process - he's rather charge the customer for new control arms and reduce his risk and increase his margin, and he won't install parts that I purchase and bring to him as he's concerned about his warranty.

BlownV8

BS, they want the margin.