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In Australia the only place I can get oil for the locking diff is from Mercedes and even then there is only 3 litres available in all of Australia and it is $136/litre (say $90 US) and it is in Melbourne - 2000km away so it would take a few days to get
I was hoping there is another oil I can put in it, I have drained the old oil into a clear container and it is fairly dark (maybe Stout not Beer if that makes sense), the oil is still not cloudy - just dark.
I strained the oil through a white tee shirt and no debris found, also put a magnet in the fluid and nothing to note - before I strained it (I wonder why they didn't out a magnetic plug on it)
The car has done only 130,000km
I have an acquaintance who is a merc mechanic and he says there is no official MB service interval on the diff fluid - does anyone know of one?
I was hoping someone can help where to find it (other than from stealers) or even if there is a point to changing it
There is no problem with oil for front (or rear non locking) diffs, just this electrically locking one
Trying to find out if it is Merc just being uptight about it or there is a reason for the "rare" fluid
I will put the old fluid back in temporarily ( used clean containers) so car is mobile but easy to change if needed
I have also tried to find out an alternative for the genuine oil but no success. Even German oil retailers and manufacturer like Fuchs which have plenty of MB approved oils say the genuine is the only option. Also in the Mercedes BeVo you can see no other brand have the official MB235.15 approval. https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevol...begriff=#close
Price range for the 235.15 / A001989590310 in Europe seems to be around 35 - 75 € / l.
Probably most of the generic 75W-85 LSD oils are going to work and if they don't I would guess only problem could be the slipping multidisk. Even if wet clutches are not usually ruined by wrong oil I'm going to continue using the OEM stuff.
Thanks for reply, I have an acquaintance who is a Merc Mechanic who just phoned me after he finished work (he is now on Daimler commercial but was on the garage floor when the GL came out)
He suggested that Fuchs makes a lot (if not all) the MB branded fluids he uses in the commercial vehicles and it could just be a commercial arrangement with MB
He has suggested that the diff is a mechanical locker by a gear type operation and not by clutchpacks etc, he has suggested a Fuchs TITAN SINTOPOID FE SAE 75W-85
I phoned a local parts shop and he too (based on a VIN search) had the Fuchs come up - said it had to be GL5
I think if it was a conventional LSD with clutches I would be more concerned but I think I will give the Fuchs a go and maybe monitor it (give it a drain in 20,000km and strain the oil and see what comes out) I will revive the thread then and post results. But feel confident given that it is basically a normal open diff, with a mechanical lock (and it will probably never engage the locker)
At least with my cars (420cdi 2009, with CODE 430 Offroad package) VIN code the Mercedes WIS is describing the rear diff having a multidisk clutch.
On document Rear axle differential actuator motor, component description: "The rear axle differential lock actuator motor is responsible for actuating the multidisk clutch (interwheel differential lock) in the rear axle."
And on document Multidisk clutch, component description: "The transfer case and the rear axle differential each contain one multidisk clutch acting as a differential lock."
I have not found a picture on the WIS and there might be different versions but from these descriptions I would guess at least my car has a clutch in rear diff.
At least with my cars (420cdi 2009, with CODE 430 Offroad package) VIN code the Mercedes WIS is describing the rear diff having a multidisk clutch.
On document Rear axle differential actuator motor, component description: "The rear axle differential lock actuator motor is responsible for actuating the multidisk clutch (interwheel differential lock) in the rear axle."
And on document Multidisk clutch, component description: "The transfer case and the rear axle differential each contain one multidisk clutch acting as a differential lock."
I have not found a picture on the WIS and there might be different versions but from these descriptions I would guess at least my car has a clutch in rear diff.
wow - thanks for that - my source might be wrong - I wonder if anyone can shed light on this
I have also tried to find out an alternative for the genuine oil but no success. Even German oil retailers and manufacturer like Fuchs which have plenty of MB approved oils say the genuine is the only option. Also in the Mercedes BeVo you can see no other brand have the official MB235.15 approval. https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevol...begriff=#close
Price range for the 235.15 / A001989590310 in Europe seems to be around 35 - 75 € / l.
Probably most of the generic 75W-85 LSD oils are going to work and if they don't I would guess only problem could be the slipping multidisk. Even if wet clutches are not usually ruined by wrong oil I'm going to continue using the OEM stuff.
You'll be fine with Fuchs 235.15 ATF for your 7g+ considering they Co developed it and may well make the genuine for MB .
At least with my cars (420cdi 2009, with CODE 430 Offroad package) VIN code the Mercedes WIS is describing the rear diff having a multidisk clutch.
On document Rear axle differential actuator motor, component description: "The rear axle differential lock actuator motor is responsible for actuating the multidisk clutch (interwheel differential lock) in the rear axle."
And on document Multidisk clutch, component description: "The transfer case and the rear axle differential each contain one multidisk clutch acting as a differential lock."
I have not found a picture on the WIS and there might be different versions but from these descriptions I would guess at least my car has a clutch in rear diff.
I finally got to look up my VIN and yes I have the 430 off road package, I have also talked to another merc mechanic and he is under the misconception that it is a mechanical locker as well - not discs - I suppose it is something that is just a total replacement and internal parts are not available
I have spent a while the web but all I can find is the reference to the disc lock up as well so I believe Droc is quite correct
It would be great to see an exploded diagram but I think the locking diff is not so common in the states?
I might post a separate thread looking for exploded diagram locking diff and see what comes up
I finally got to look up my VIN and yes I have the 430 off road package, I have also talked to another merc mechanic and he is under the misconception that it is a mechanical locker as well - not discs - I suppose it is something that is just a total replacement and internal parts are not available
I have spent a while the web but all I can find is the reference to the disc lock up as well so I believe Droc is quite correct
It would be great to see an exploded diagram but I think the locking diff is not so common in the states?
I might post a separate thread looking for exploded diagram locking diff and see what comes up
I found something but once again this came up with my VIN.
You'll be fine with Fuchs 235.15 ATF for your 7g+ considering they Co developed it and may well make the genuine for MB .
I think that is 236.15 not 235.15. But you are right it should be okay for 7g+. But it is not the specified oil for vehicles without the +(start&stop) in 7g. And even still it would be the wrong oil for the rear differential.
I found something but once again this came up with my VIN.
Many thanks for that, it is definitely a far more complex item that was explained to me - definitely seems to have variable slip through the discs - perhaps I will go to the MB235.15 after all..
My Vin is WDC1648222A392502 it Is Feb 08 build, could you please see if my diff is the same, I see the PDF sheet says up to 08, if it is different could you please attach it
Many thanks for that, it is definitely a far more complex item that was explained to me - definitely seems to have variable slip through the discs - perhaps I will go to the MB235.15 after all..
My Vin is WDC1648222A392502 it Is Feb 08 build, could you please see if my diff is the same, I see the PDF sheet says up to 08, if it is different could you please attach it
Many thanks for your help
Part number is different because of the different gear ratio. Otherwise seems similar.
I think that is 236.15 not 235.15. But you are right it should be okay for 7g+. But it is not the specified oil for vehicles without the +(start&stop) in 7g. And even still it would be the wrong oil for the rear differential.
In the last month I have found that Redline produce a 75w85 235.15 oil. I have bought another GL320 that I am going to put it in. Am pretty sure it is 235.15. I know 236.14 etc are atf fluids
In the last month I have found that Redline produce a 75w85 235.15 oil. I have bought another GL320 that I am going to put it in. Am pretty sure it is 235.15. I know 236.14 etc are atf fluids
Last year you got me thinking and asked Red Line about their oil. Answer:
Thank you for contacting Red Line Oil, the 75W85 would be suitable for use in your Mercedes Benz differentials.
The 75W85 would be suitable for use but hasn’t been submitted so doesn’t appear on their list.
So I used it and no problems at least during the winter. I have not used the lock during summer yet and it is not automatically engaging with my driving style.
and it definately says 235.15 for the locking diff on 164 models - and 75w85 (these are an electronically controlled diff so really think the oil should comply with this - also a higher viscosity may play havoc with the clutches ) maybe an open diff would be right with 75w140
it does mention 235.61 75w140 for Rear axle model 167 with engine 177, model 251 with rear wheel drive (4×2) but definately NOT for 164
E Coupe C207, ML W166, ML W164, Sprinter 1500/144, W111 SB220 Fintail(s), A5 chassis Beetle 5+5
FE version is for fuel efficientcy.
The fluid shears during it's service life, plus it operates in a wide range of temps. 85 is a 90 at 10 degrees cooler....at freezing it's 100x thicker.
agree that the 75w85 is probably for fuel efficiency but would have thought using a thicker oil would behave differently with clutches - and why go to a thicker oil if there is no need to - even in the warm climate of North Australia I have never heard any diff noise so can't think of any logical reason to go to a thicker oil
all I am trying to say is that the MB spec is 235.15 NOT 235.61 not trying to start a useless discussion
E Coupe C207, ML W166, ML W164, Sprinter 1500/144, W111 SB220 Fintail(s), A5 chassis Beetle 5+5
The usual progression is a thick oil spec to start, brought down in visc for fuel efficiency. Personally, I shy away from FF oils, as unit longevity is NOT the objective, especially motor oils. With driveline fluids, I am open to a reduced visc, as failure is less common. Also, fluids tend to shear down anyway, like a 30 weight commonly shearing down to a 20. So it's not rocket science to go ahead and use a 20 weight.
Bottom line is I would use either fluid available. I certainly wouldn't think it's something worthy of contradicting another member over, especially one bringing much-needed insight to the thread. If you want 85 weight, go right ahead, but with a better reasoning in mind than "the manual", because "the manual" originally stated a thicker oil as well. If you want to "by the book", doesn't it say that's a lifetime fluid?
I don't know where you're getting 235.15, Opie doesn't even list it, only MB does, as an 85 weight that nobody else produces, perhaps IT is the thing that's useless. https://www.opieoils.co.uk/c-691-mercedes-benz.aspx
I don't see what the problem is with a 90 weight anyway, except for "argument's sake". Again, use what's available.
REALLY - lighten up - not trying to start an argument - keep in mind YOU contradicted me first - which you are welcome to do IF you are right....
not trying to contradict - just trying to correct what I believe is wrong - My source is https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com which I understand is the Mercedes own bible for fluids - maybe look it up - I found it off a google search for "mercedes 164 locking differential fluid"
I agree YOU can do what YOU like - but I would tend to believe what I read in the MB data over aftermarket - in any case
all the oil suppliers in Australia either don't list any diff oils (and say GO TO DEALER - OR list 75w85 GL5 for normal diff (if they do it) then there is a note saying - NOT for locking diif - go to dealer for locking diff. (absolutely no mention of 140 grade
possibly NOT the viscosity but definitely friction modifiers etc critical - just confirming we are talking about the LOCKING diff found in 164 (M and X with off road pack) not the standard open diff (without offroad pack) -
would hate to see someone polish the clutches in the LSD/Locking diff by not using right stuff
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