JimBarnhart

I thought I'd start this thread since it's been discussed in a few places.

As many are aware, our MB Bluetec engines are warranted for up to 5% biodiesel. Going above that voids the warranty and you are left to MB's good graces to support.

Some (many?) states are using greater than 5% biodiesel (B5) now. Illinois is one of them and use 11% (B11) most of the time because there are tax incentives to do so. Minnesota has a mandate to go to B10, but it keeps getting delayed because of several factors. The soonest it can get enforced now is summer of 2014.

I found a biofuel expert at the Minnesota Dept. of Ag. who has answered many of my questions.

He sent me some documents in regards to Illinois that show that Audi and VW have decided to honor the warranty for Illinois registered vehicles using up to B20 (20% biodiesel). I'll attach them here.

JimBarnhart

My reaction to this is there is hope that should Minnesota enact the mandate, that Mercedes will step up and honor the warranty.

It doesn't appear to be a black and white verdict on whether using greater than B5 will actually impact your engine, but that is somewhat unimportant given the terms of the warranty.

Oh, one other thing. This expert warned me that even though the mandate hasn't been enacted in Minnesota, it's important to watch the pumps. He said that there are still some incentives which could make B10 cheaper than #2 diesel and so you could see it in truck stops this summer. All commercial trucks now warrant and support up to B20.

Mbenz260e

Thanks for posting very interesting. I would hope MB would follow suit...

jkaetz

It would be nice if MB would just acknowledge the issue and tell us what steps we can take to mitigate problems if > B5 is the only thing available. The question isn't really will it run, it's how long it will run. Would also be nice if they, along with VW, Audi, BMW, and others would go to the .gov on our behalf to stop/delay the prominence of bio fuels since the current crop of vehicles wasn't tested with it.

The wife and I tested out the true range of her BlueTec ML on our first trip to see her mom in IL. Didn't realize that b20 was so prevelant over there until we were on our way back home. Fortunately we had enough fuel to make it to Indiana where we could fill up guilt free.

JimBarnhart

I'm surprised how many diesel manufacturers actually support B20.

http://www.biodiesel.org/using-biodi...-summary-chart

fabbrisd1

One of the "problems" I am told is that the states who have approved or mandated B20 have not set accountable quality standards - it's one thing to feed fleet/industrial engines from high-weekly volume fuel supplies - it's another to feed personal vehicles where both the B20 itself is under regulated/under--low-quality standards - but also passenger pump stations do not necessarily pump thru all their supply every six months - and "old" biodiesel is a like a real bummer...

Europeans have been leaders in high efficiency passenger diesel engines for years and years.. maybe it's "Green America" that needs to listen..

JimBarnhart

At least the stations in Minnesota swap out between summer (which could go to B10) and winter (which I'm told needs to be B5 in order to survive the cold weather).

dgiturbo

Fuels higher than B5 are everywhere. Just not labeled so on the pump. So far lots of folks are using it (including MB owners) thinking it is pure diesel. If you want the good stuff, asking the station attendant will get you strange looks. Best bet is to ask the transport driver if you see one delivering.

It's time for MB to just let it be and stand by their product. They are the only ones left out of the party at this time. SuperDuty, RAM, GMC, VW/Audi the upcoming Jeep/RAM ecodiesel are all B20 happy.

fabbrisd1

I think there are few here that have researched the problems with higher-than-B5 in post-injection diesel passenger car engines - this is far-far-far different than some gasser "octane" issue.

In addition to the biodiesel problems with this type of engine - oil contamination. excessive engine component wear etc - and problems escalate almost explosively when higher B's degrade in relatively short storage times - whether at the pump or in the tank.

Yes - new disel engine designs are needed - but for US "enthusiasts" - a question for you, if B+ diesel fuel is such a raging fuel solution - with Euro about 5 years or more ahead of the US in this area - why do you think Euro market believes fso strongly that B+ bio diesel is uneconomical/non-sustainable ?

US made diesel passenger vehicle engines don't make it to the same level - my opinion - sure, makes interesting monster pickups.. I like the part where US makers "void warrranty" all the time claiming "fuel contamination".

Dog hauler

In what states is diesel #2 or B5 hard to find? I'm traveling from the southwest to the midwest in a couple of months and will plan ahead so I don't have to use any biofuel > B5.

The above quote mentions some possible damage from biofuel > B5, but are there any other forms of damage possible? And is whatever damage that may occur from > B5 fuel unlikely if I must very occasionally use it due to the unavailability of diesel #2 or B5?

LoseWeightAskMe

I know Illinois have the Bio-diesel problem, where most gas stations sell >B5 fuel, upto B20. I was told that Gas Stations belonging to Meijer Grocery Chain carry only Petro Diesel. So if you are in Illinois/Chicago, it would be wort researching where the Meijer gas stations are.
I am not sure about the neighboring states (Missouri, Wisconsin, Indiana, Michigan etc). Maybe somebody on the forum can chime in.

keitha1

My go-to filling station for "regular" diesel just switched to the higher blend biodiesel commonly sold in the state of Illinois. So now I have one less station to depend on for the 5% or less blend. I have a question, though. I noticed that the Illinois dealerships started carrying new diesels again - I see many with the GLK250's on their lots now. So is Mercedes starting to resign themselves to warranting new diesels sold in Illinois? Or is the 4 cylinder diesel more permissive of the higher blend?

jasonjeross

My experience in Illinois is that the dealers LOVE to blame the diesel quality for any and all issues.

It's to the point that I had to ask "Why in the world would you sell cars that have no viable fuel options in the state?". Of course they said "Well Meijer's uses "good" diesel".

Great! Just make sure you stay in range of Meijer's when driving and map your trip around one grocery store chain.

Sad.

fabbrisd1

I empahthize with Illinois - because frankly B20 spec (or more atply thelack of spec) makes B20 "dirty diesel" - and absolutely nothing to do with "green diesel".

The Euro's have been specifically focused on B05 as the "greenest diesel" - and Euro has been at this longer and harder than the state legislature in Springfield Illinois !

All this is huffed up because Illinois legislature wanted to find a way to increase out-of-state commercial semi fuel purchases while those trucks are traveling thru the State - and rather than reducing state taxes on B05 - they dreamed up the B20 loophole fracking everybody up.

Shoot - MOST states should be pushed to lower fuel taxes on B05 diesel - since with newest diesel tech it runs cleaner and lower carbon footprint than gassers !