Just ordered GL350 BT. Now having second thoughts.
#26
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SLK32 AMG RennTech,2014 GL350
You are claiming that the GL350 engine when tuned by renntech only gains 9 ft-kb of torque? Come on, I believe Renntech can get more than 9 lb-ft of torque on their tune.
I believe I read somewhere on the Renntech site a while ago that they shoot for 20-25% increase in performance. That would raise the stock 455 kb-ft of the GL350 to about 570 kb-ft. I still think you are looking at the tuned numbers of the GL320 on the Renntech site (they must have a typo).
The 350GL may or may not tune up to the V8 550 when you fairly compare like model years, but the 350 still ends up plus or minus around 600 kb-ft (depending on which tuner site you want to believe). This is about what you are quoting for a tuned 550 (575 kb-ft).
Realize please, that I am not talking about 0-60, push back in the seats, freeway merging accelleration. Just torque, which is what pulls my Airstream trailer. The little 350 does a formidable job and get 14-17mpg while doing it, that's all.
Last edited by Hammer1; 03-02-2014 at 02:23 PM.
#28
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My experience with a BTC will not be too encouraging for you. I bought a CPO with 29K mi and have had nothing but bad news as far as ownership. I had 3 fuel filters changed within 1 year because of the previous owners' fuel choices. Just recently I had the entire fuel system changed due to again, fuel problems at my cost. The FLW/ELW/CPO means nothing because MBUSA will blame you the owner for bad fuel. I recommend the 450/550 GL new or used, or the 350GL BTC (New only) because used MB diesel engines are ticking time bombs.
#29
Member
That's directly from Renntech's website. Kleeman lists about the same for their ECU tune on the GL350 Bluetec. The torque on the ECU tuned 450/550 is around the same from 1600 RPM all the way to around 4750 rpm where it starts falling but the hp is still increasing which is normal in a V8. Imagine having 575 lb-ft of torque in the bi-turbo V8 with over 500 Hp and that torque is available at 1600 RPM. Drive one, your diesel will feel lacking in everything except mileage...
When you twin turbo a gas engine you get serious torque down low because it is a function of how much air is being rammed into the cylinders. PID=142338
When you twin turbo a gas engine you get serious torque down low because it is a function of how much air is being rammed into the cylinders. PID=142338
http://www.dynocomp.com/data/detail/big_1089.jpg
http://oetuning.com/blog/wp-content/...-CA91-6002.jpg
Last edited by drgeeforce; 03-03-2014 at 06:06 PM.
#30
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Throw 5,000 lbs. behind a 450/550, sure, they'll beat you 0-60, but you will ALWAYS pass them at the gas station.
#31
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We just ordered a GL350 BT after a month worth of research and shopping. The car is primarily for my wife and I am planning to stick to a sedan. No matter where you read whether its reviews or forums most people recommend GL350 due to better resale value, low cost of ownership and extended range. When I test drove it few weeks ago, I felt it was little slow for my taste but adequate. It was a short test drive as the car was a sold model which hadn't been picked up by customer. Now I am having second thoughts as to whether to stick with 350 or change it to GL450. Unfortunately, there isnt any X166 GL350 BT available at any of the 3 local dealerships for me to test drive it again.
Any suggestions??
Any suggestions??
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/1...he-environment
#32
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Got any dyno pics to show any turbocharged gas engines get max torque @1600rpm? I know of some supercharged gassers getting torque @2200rpm. Twin Turbocharged gassers that I've seen get max torque @3500rpm.
http://www.dynocomp.com/data/detail/big_1089.jpg
http://oetuning.com/blog/wp-content/...-CA91-6002.jpg
http://www.dynocomp.com/data/detail/big_1089.jpg
http://oetuning.com/blog/wp-content/...-CA91-6002.jpg
You do know why MB's get the max torque at such a low rpm, right? They use very small turbos that spool almost instantly. The stock GL550 produces max torque of 516 lb-ft at 1800 RPM. http://www.autoweek.com/article/2013...IEWS/130539958
The stock MB M275 V12 bi-turbo also pruduces max torque of 590 lb-ft by 1,800 RPM.
Also, see the Bently's max torque at 1,600 rpms: http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...y-coupes-1.pdf
Any more questions?
#33
Comments on diesels
I have owned several diesels over the last few years, and they do not like being driven short distances in cold climates. This results in heavy fuel consumption and short oil life. If this is most of your driving you would be ahead with a gas vehicle. If you have to use diesels for this type of service, frequent oil changes are a necessity, I would change the oil every 5000 miles. I have encountered out of warranty issues on both diesels and gas engine equipped vehicles--good maintenance and a early detection of problems is about the only thing you can do to reduce these. In both gas and diesel vehicles, these problems can be costly, at $100 or more per hour for a mechanic's labor, it does not take long for costs to add up.
The new Bluetech diesels should be more reliable, because they take care of the nitrogen oxide issues with a catalytic converter, rather than with Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR). EGR in diesels is bad news--the soot in the exhaust gets fed back through the diesel, and when this is combined with the oil fumes being fed into the engine, this results in manifold and coolers getting a heavy layer soot mixed with oil on the inside. Elimination of EGR should eliminate these problems.
The new Bluetech diesels should be more reliable, because they take care of the nitrogen oxide issues with a catalytic converter, rather than with Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR). EGR in diesels is bad news--the soot in the exhaust gets fed back through the diesel, and when this is combined with the oil fumes being fed into the engine, this results in manifold and coolers getting a heavy layer soot mixed with oil on the inside. Elimination of EGR should eliminate these problems.
Last edited by Ed Wolcott; 03-05-2014 at 07:30 AM.
#34
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NOX is a generic term for mono-nitrogen oxides: nitric oxide and nitrogen dioxide. There is a little bit of nitrous oxide too.
Last edited by BlownV8; 03-04-2014 at 10:46 PM.
#35
The thing is, when I open up the GL550, I don't think I want a ounce more power -- it already torque-steers obscenely -- I just want it to be much, much more direct, smooth and linear in throttle response. That's on CA 91 "California water." The last thing I want to do is ask that power train to load up and throw a rod trying to propel that 6000lb vehicle around.
I don't mean to say that I think 430hp/520tq is a lot or that the 4.6l v8 twin turbo is a handful (one of my road cars is a 520hp 3.6l 911 turbo, my track car is a 8800 rpm 450hp 911) but seriously, this thing gets up and goes. The only thing it lacks is refinement in the power delivery. I've drive 20K+ miles in a GL350 bluetec and it was as smooth as a proverbial baby's ... torque notwithstanding, the only thing it lacked was the oomph to "holeshot" from a standing start ... once you learned to get it in a tall gear, build boost and let it work, it was very capable.
I chose the 550 this time because it was not that much more than the equivalently equipped 350. Of course, that can change on resale, but I try not to buy with too much forethought to the next owner.
I don't mean to say that I think 430hp/520tq is a lot or that the 4.6l v8 twin turbo is a handful (one of my road cars is a 520hp 3.6l 911 turbo, my track car is a 8800 rpm 450hp 911) but seriously, this thing gets up and goes. The only thing it lacks is refinement in the power delivery. I've drive 20K+ miles in a GL350 bluetec and it was as smooth as a proverbial baby's ... torque notwithstanding, the only thing it lacked was the oomph to "holeshot" from a standing start ... once you learned to get it in a tall gear, build boost and let it work, it was very capable.
I chose the 550 this time because it was not that much more than the equivalently equipped 350. Of course, that can change on resale, but I try not to buy with too much forethought to the next owner.
#36
This is such a great thread!!
In all seriousness, I've owned one performance diesel and sold it quickly at a big loss.
As a previous post states you have to keep the engine in the high torque areas, which means changing gear well before the red line, they run out of puff. In my experience the engine/gearbox mappings with the auto box are totally wrong as on full throttle they don't change until the red line when they should have changed a while ago!
My diesel Audi (3.0TDi BiTurbo 313HP) was even further flawed with the kick down algorithm, as it would change to too low a gear, sky the revs, have no go left and then change again - all of which would leave you struggling to overtake a car having put yourself on the wrong side of the road.
Obviously the GL350BT is not a racer so these points matter less, but with the gas engine you get full go until the red line, change and go again - simples.
In all seriousness, I've owned one performance diesel and sold it quickly at a big loss.
As a previous post states you have to keep the engine in the high torque areas, which means changing gear well before the red line, they run out of puff. In my experience the engine/gearbox mappings with the auto box are totally wrong as on full throttle they don't change until the red line when they should have changed a while ago!
My diesel Audi (3.0TDi BiTurbo 313HP) was even further flawed with the kick down algorithm, as it would change to too low a gear, sky the revs, have no go left and then change again - all of which would leave you struggling to overtake a car having put yourself on the wrong side of the road.
Obviously the GL350BT is not a racer so these points matter less, but with the gas engine you get full go until the red line, change and go again - simples.
Last edited by somersetjon; 03-05-2014 at 03:16 AM.
#37
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SLK32 AMG RennTech,2014 GL350
For the last time, you are looking on the Renntech site at the old GL320 or they haven't updated their site. PLEASE CLICK ON THE ATTACHMENT BELOW. (From the Merceds Benz site)
Cheers.
Last edited by Hammer1; 03-05-2014 at 05:27 PM.
#38
Senior Member
I guess they both must be wrong then if, you are quoting that the GL350 only ends up with 465 Lb-Ft of torque after the tune. The GL 350 starts with a stock 455 Lb-Ft. And that is the ticket.
For the last time, you are looking on the Renntech site at the old GL320 or they haven't updated their site. PLEASE CLICK ON THE ATTACHMENT BELOW. (From the Merceds Benz site)
Cheers.
Attachment 280756
For the last time, you are looking on the Renntech site at the old GL320 or they haven't updated their site. PLEASE CLICK ON THE ATTACHMENT BELOW. (From the Merceds Benz site)
Cheers.
Attachment 280756
Renntech site info is for older gl 350 here is there info- torque goes from 389 to 464
RENNtech ECU Upgrade for GL 350 (X164- 253 HP / 464 TQ)
$1,295
Click to view images
SKU: ECU:54.164.GL350BLUE
RENNtech has been at the forefront of ECU tuning since electronic engine management started to show up in vehicles during the mid 1980's! Our experience, countless hours of in house research, development and exhaustive testing ensure that our proprietary ECU upgrade offers incredible performance gains and rock solid daily driver reliability.
RENNtech tuning software for Mercedes offers significant gains in horsepower and torque across the vehicles entire power band. By modifying ignition timing and throttle mapping, optimizing air/ fuel ratios, increasing the engines rev limiter and modifying boost mapping for turbo charged vehicles, RENNtech performance software unleashes your Mercedes true potential.
GL 350 BlueTec (X164) Stock Performance:
230 HP / 389 LB-FT
Gains:
253 HP / 464 LB-FT
#39
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Here is the one for the updated engine from Renntech's site. It is the updated one for the ML 166 but it uses the same engine as the GL 166. It takes the torque from
455 lb-ft to 485 lb-ft. Still not what you expected was it?
http://www.renntechmercedes.com/www/node/969
240 HP / 455 LB-FT
Gains:
260 HP / 485 LB-FT
Price: $1,295
455 lb-ft to 485 lb-ft. Still not what you expected was it?
http://www.renntechmercedes.com/www/node/969
240 HP / 455 LB-FT
Gains:
260 HP / 485 LB-FT
Price: $1,295
#40
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I finally had a chance to test drive a GL350 again. I had to drive 2 hours to an out of town MB dealer who had one in stock. It's little slow for what I am used to but perfectly acceptable. I am going to stick with 350 and finalized the order. Added lighting package and chrome accessory package. Delivery expected in mid april. Thanks for all your help
#41
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I finally had a chance to test drive a GL350 again. I had to drive 2 hours to an out of town MB dealer who had one in stock. It's little slow for what I am used to but perfectly acceptable. I am going to stick with 350 and finalized the order. Added lighting package and chrome accessory package. Delivery expected in mid april. Thanks for all your help
#42
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Diesels Are the Predominant Engine Choice in Europe
Just saying, Mercedes Benz has tons of Diesel experience. I have never read anywhere how unreliable Europe's diesel fleet is.
#43
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I went ahead and did a Race Chip for my 350. They claim +60hp and +118lbs tq for $349. There has been some testing saying that the claims are pretty close to accurate.
http://www.racechip-usa.com/media/racechip_review.pdf
I will say it is completely unnoticeable when normally driving until you get in it. I only installed it this morning but so far I'm quite pleased with the power increase. I was pleasantly surprised by the 350 stock, but now it really gets up and goes when you floor it. I don't think it is up 118lbs of tq but it's certainly more powerful than stock, and for $349 shipped its a steal....
#44
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I don't believe he is getting an older GL, he is looking new. There has not been much evidence of issues with the newer 350's.
I went ahead and did a Race Chip for my 350. They claim +60hp and +118lbs tq for $349. There has been some testing saying that the claims are pretty close to accurate.
http://www.racechip-usa.com/media/racechip_review.pdf
I will say it is completely unnoticeable when normally driving until you get in it. I only installed it this morning but so far I'm quite pleased with the power increase. I was pleasantly surprised by the 350 stock, but now it really gets up and goes when you floor it. I don't think it is up 118lbs of tq but it's certainly more powerful than stock, and for $349 shipped its a steal....
I went ahead and did a Race Chip for my 350. They claim +60hp and +118lbs tq for $349. There has been some testing saying that the claims are pretty close to accurate.
http://www.racechip-usa.com/media/racechip_review.pdf
I will say it is completely unnoticeable when normally driving until you get in it. I only installed it this morning but so far I'm quite pleased with the power increase. I was pleasantly surprised by the 350 stock, but now it really gets up and goes when you floor it. I don't think it is up 118lbs of tq but it's certainly more powerful than stock, and for $349 shipped its a steal....
#46
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I went ahead and did a Race Chip for my 350. They claim +60hp and +118lbs tq for $349. There has been some testing saying that the claims are pretty close to accurate.
http://www.racechip-usa.com/media/racechip_review.pdf....
http://www.racechip-usa.com/media/racechip_review.pdf....
Last edited by BlownV8; 03-21-2014 at 11:31 PM.
#47
'09 ML 320 BT Feedback
Group,
We took over a lease on an '09 ML 320 BT that had 30k miles on it.
After 3 years, we now have 92k on it. It's my wife's car with two active kids.
The only issue was the fuel pump needed to be replaced. The second one for this car. It took them 4-5 visits to narrow it down, even though I told them that it is likely to be the fuel pump. They have to go through their red tape first - which took a lot of visits.
Other than that, it is a great SUV. We have the warranty to 135k, so soon after we hit that I'll put it up for sale.
The mileage is great, as mentioned.
Two major drawbacks are the AdBlue re-fill and run flat tires.
MB likes to flush the AdBlue when in for the A and B services. The fluid and labor (they reset the computer too) runs $300-$400. I top it off myself between services for a lot less.
The tires don't last more than 20k miles for us and the with run flats you can easily exceed $1,250 to replace all four.
So when you add the extra costs to the mileages savings, it is close to a wash. I like to believe I'm still ahead some.
One nice thing, MB R and D currently has the car in their Detroit R and D center to test its emissions.
They came with a new '14 GL 350 BT on a flatbed for us to use for our
troubles. They put our ML on their flat bed and I'm told will run a few tests on in and put little miles on it. And we'll get a Visa Gift Card when done. Nice perks. My wife now says that they can take their time with our ML, as she loves the loaded GL we get to have for a few weeks....
Ray
We took over a lease on an '09 ML 320 BT that had 30k miles on it.
After 3 years, we now have 92k on it. It's my wife's car with two active kids.
The only issue was the fuel pump needed to be replaced. The second one for this car. It took them 4-5 visits to narrow it down, even though I told them that it is likely to be the fuel pump. They have to go through their red tape first - which took a lot of visits.
Other than that, it is a great SUV. We have the warranty to 135k, so soon after we hit that I'll put it up for sale.
The mileage is great, as mentioned.
Two major drawbacks are the AdBlue re-fill and run flat tires.
MB likes to flush the AdBlue when in for the A and B services. The fluid and labor (they reset the computer too) runs $300-$400. I top it off myself between services for a lot less.
The tires don't last more than 20k miles for us and the with run flats you can easily exceed $1,250 to replace all four.
So when you add the extra costs to the mileages savings, it is close to a wash. I like to believe I'm still ahead some.
One nice thing, MB R and D currently has the car in their Detroit R and D center to test its emissions.
They came with a new '14 GL 350 BT on a flatbed for us to use for our
troubles. They put our ML on their flat bed and I'm told will run a few tests on in and put little miles on it. And we'll get a Visa Gift Card when done. Nice perks. My wife now says that they can take their time with our ML, as she loves the loaded GL we get to have for a few weeks....
Ray
#48
MBWorld Fanatic!
Same engine - different turbo. Not a whole lot of difference. MB's are very consistent. It's just a matter of time and mileage before you see the same issues.
This is interesting considering the two best MB tuners in the industry, Renntech and Kleeman, only report a 20 hp increase with their chips. No way would I put this on my GL or believe they are getting these results without dyno testing.
This is interesting considering the two best MB tuners in the industry, Renntech and Kleeman, only report a 20 hp increase with their chips. No way would I put this on my GL or believe they are getting these results without dyno testing.
You don't need to put it on your truck, that's of no concern to me. It does work however, and works quite well actually. In the BMW forums there are quite a few people who have had great success with it. It's not some random never heard of company....
Last edited by emilner; 03-22-2014 at 02:24 PM.
#49
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The GL350 does not have runflats, even though my dealer insisted it did even after I showed them the tires were in fact regular ones. They also insisted it didn't have a spare tire, when I opened the hatch and showed the spare to them they just looked all confused. Dealers are quite amazing....
#50
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Either way, Renntech does have the updated tune for the W166 which uses the same engine as the GL. They Gain 20 hp and 30 lb-ft of torque for $1,295. This is exactly what Kleeman gains too.
I would be very skeptical of the other company that is gaining 60+ Hp and 118 lb-ft of torque for $349 when the others are gaining a fraction of that power. I would want to see an independent dyno before I would trust the claims.
http://www.renntechmercedes.com/www/node/969
240 HP / 455 LB-FT
Gains:
260 HP / 485 LB-FT
Price: $1,295