whitecoatgeek

We just ordered a GL350 BT after a month worth of research and shopping. The car is primarily for my wife and I am planning to stick to a sedan. No matter where you read whether its reviews or forums most people recommend GL350 due to better resale value, low cost of ownership and extended range. When I test drove it few weeks ago, I felt it was little slow for my taste but adequate. It was a short test drive as the car was a sold model which hadn't been picked up by customer. Now I am having second thoughts as to whether to stick with 350 or change it to GL450. Unfortunately, there isnt any X166 GL350 BT available at any of the 3 local dealerships for me to test drive it again.

Any suggestions??

fabbrisd1

The choice between a luxury sedan and a 7000 lb ultra-luxury sedan will be your personal choice to make - and at this price level a MB sedan or MB SUV are both great choices.

X166 owners experience the X166 has a luxury cabin experience that is closest (and some feel equal to) a luxury sedan in terms of smoothness, quietness, and driving sophistication, equally appreciated in everyday driving as much as open highway.

I have extensive drive time in all three GL's - and a solid number of personal customers in all three.

On all three you need to appreciate this is a 7K lb vehicle - and as 4matic pay more attention to the speedo as compared to a RWD sedan - since 4matic is pulling from the front and pushing from the rear - you are more "carried" to speed that push-you-back-in-the-seat-feel mondo V8 RWD sedan.

GL350 around town "torque" delivery gives the GL350 gives it a "peppier" feel from a stop and city driving - and with miles fuel economy is very appreciated - especially if you come from other "big box" SUV's from other brands.

The GL450 is very capable - in comparison to the GL350 the GL450 has a noticeable quieter cabin - in the GL450 it's the speedo that really counts for true "impression".

The GL550 is awesomely capable rig - especially if properly invested with Active Curve...

In MB sedans the 2014 E550 4matic - properly invested with Airmatic - is a awesome enthusiast's performance/luxury rig - and if highway eating is your intention the CLS550 4matic for a touch more is a intimate cabin experience and a stealth monster in it's own right putting the front wheel of that chassis a bit more forward for a Euro pose in Maserati/Jaguar fashion.

If it's not the right time for you to move to a SUV - no need to push over your instincts - especially since in the price "range" you have great choices in Mercedes luxury performance sedans..

somersetjon

Here's a piece of advice that might help your decision.


Modern Diesel's have a habit of having expensive repairs down the line, they have a very high pressure fuel pump, the corresponding injectors, turbo's, a Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF). All these things won't go wrong during your warranty, but probably will further down the road.


At least with an automatic, you don't have a Dual Mass Flywheel - these try and smooth out the vibrations of Diesel engines - and go wrong - and are expensive!


Much of the going wrongness will depend on how you use the vehicle, short journeys where the engine does not get hot will be very very bad for everything, in Europe I've seen recommendations that you only buy a Diesel if you do at least 15,000 miles a year!!!!!


So my advice would be, yes the Diesel gives good mileage, but all of that is lost when you need a new DPF for $3000.


But, if you only keep your cars 3 years, who cares!!!


Never, ever, buy a second hand 350BT without a storming warranty!

somersetjon

I've spent some time reading the X164 forum to see where things are going to go with the GL, sadly it's not good reading!


https://mbworld.org/forums/gl-class-...iles-high.html


As I said in my previous post it all depends on driving style and when you will dispose of vehicle, I wonder what the guaranteed future value after 3 years is of both, as this will tell you what MB think it will be worth in the future!

Ah_gl450

The residual value after 36 months on the GL350 and GL450 is 63% and 64% respectively. However, MB set the RV after 30 months on the GL350 and GL450 as 66% and 65% respectively.

So I don't know how the GL350 residual drops 3% (~$2000) in just 6 months

JimBarnhart

I think I read your question as should I get a gl450 or a gl350, not so much whether I should get an SUV vs a sedan, so I will address the 450 vs 350.

I have had both, a 2007 GL450 and a 2013 GL350. I think the gasser has more pep than the 350, assuming that's important for your wife in the 7,000 pound SUV. It's not and important factor for me. The 350 has plenty of pep, it's not under-powered.

The diesel gives over 600 miles between fill ups. This higher mpg which may or may not yield a cost savings, but it clearly reduces the carbon footprint.

I'm at about 22,000 miles on my 2013, and 16 months of ownership. The only repair I've had is one soft close door stopped soft closing. We'll see as I get to 100,000 miles what the cost of repairs are.

Given that perspective, if you ask me which one to get, there isn't a right or wrong answer IMHO. If you like being more aligned reducing your carbon footprint, being someone unique when your wife pulls up to the diesel pumps, and helping reinforce the notion of alternatives to gas, there's some value to the 350. If you worry about the wife forgetting to go to the diesel pump, worry there will be complications with diesel (bio-diesel warranties, DPFs, etc) then relax with a 450 or if you really want more of a stomp on it performance and a SUV consider the 550.

I can tell you for me there are a lot of options that I would consider deal breakers on a GL way before it came to a decision on diesel vs gas.

ERC4

The GL is on my short list re adding a 2nd SUV for my family. In the grander scheme of things gas mileage is not a concern for me. Thus, the 350BT's primary advantage is a moot point. We do have a number of short on-ramps to freeways in our area. That's the deal killer for the 350BT for me. Many people talk about a diesel's torque but the reality is that the 350's 0-60 at 7.5 secs does not cut the mustard for me. Just stepping up to the 450 cuts that to 6.0 seconds and means you're less at the mercy of your fellow drivers. If I didn't envision my wife being in situations where acceleration is very helpful, the 350 BT would be fine.

infamily

Here is our experience in terms of reliability. We owned 2007 diesel GL, we had few maint issues but none that could be attributed to Diesel engine except 2

Recall for oil level sensor bracket design
Glow plug replacement - 2 replaced (same as spark plugs replacement)

We drove car for 6 1/2 years, over 96k miles at time of trade in. We ordered 2014 350bt which hopefully will be here in a week or so.

fabbrisd1

On the residual - residual is "higher" when lease-end/turn-in will be before the next calendar year - then if lease-end/turn-in is after calendar New Year - with all vehicles/all-brands vehicles become 1 yr older...

Mercedes residual on the GL350 will normally be a bit higher than residual on the GL450 - that's something Mercedes does to help keep diesels supportive/competitive in the lease market - which in turn, some mercedes diesel enthusiasts take to mean "diesel worth more" when the fact is the diesel market is still a smaller/select percentage of the total GL market..

Dog hauler

I thought curb weight on the GL350 was about 5400 lbs. http://www.edmunds.com/mercedes-benz...res-specs.html

cincy8

Of course, it's personal choice.
At first I thought it would be a kick to go diesel for the diesel mileage, but in the end, I went the other way (to a GL550) for the following reasons:
1. The blend debate in the US - I didn't want to have to check blends or worse, stress finding the right one.
2. the power - we were coming from a 4.8i X5 - and didn't want that to be the issue with skeptic spouse.
3. the AMG styling on the GL550 (US can't get it on other models).

I will say mileage is NOT a positive with the GL550 - or maybe it's my driving.

whitecoatgeek

Thanks for everyone who chipped in.

I anticipate our annual mileage to be approx 7K miles and I am plannning to keep it for 5 yrs. Is it worth taking the performance hit for savings on fuel cost for 7K miles per year?? I know its a subjective question but would like to know other's opinion. Are there any savings over long term except fuel costs (and $1500 on MSRP)? RV from MB does not apply unless the vehicle is being leased. Real market selling prices are often different from RV that car companies assume.

somersetjon

Agreed, given your criteria, a look at CPO 2008/2009 450 vs 350BT would give you a steer on where you might be - and might be very interesting.


Again, frequent short journeys would be bad, especially if you are in a cold area?


If I was in the market for a 5 year old GL I wouldn't want a diesel given what I know now.


Also as these DPF laden Diesels were new back then they are only just starting to show their weaknesses. 5 years ago it was just a name on the spec sheet for emissions!


What we don't know is how bad (or good) they might really be. If they turn out to be a real head ache then the resale value after 5 years might tumble???


The 450 would have none of these concerns!


I've got a real downer on Diesels at the moment (can you tell), performance being the main reason, but there are just too many out of warranty issues with friends cars around 70,000 miles to ignore (not GL's though).

DBV

I have happily owned 3 diesel GL's. This is the first I have heard of perceived reliability problems. I purchased diesel for Mercedes reputation of diesel engines and their reliability. From the research I did, it looked like they can long outlast a gas engine and get excellent. mpg/performance at the same time. I think the performance of the diesel engine is awesome and love the instant torque it offers.

We are a perfect candidate for the the diesel, as we drive 20,000+ miles a year. Also, from everything I have experienced the residual value at trade in is much greater in with the diesel models. Right now, it is hard to even get a new diesel GL, which only enhances the current trade in value of the new model.

JimBarnhart

I guess given your situation of buying new and keeping it for 5 years and predicting <40,000 miles, I don't think it really makes any difference. MPG differences are irrelevant given those miles, long term reliability is irrelevant given those miles. There might be a difference in resale value of one versus the other, but that is very hard to predict 5 years from now.

DendoPhilip

I addition to Jim's point above, if you intend to keep the vehicle for 5 years & ~35k miles, the real exposure from reliability standpoint will be the 5th year when you are out of MB warranty. This can he hedged by purchasing extended warranty through MB or an external source like those insurance companies like GEICO that offer mechanical breakdown coverage for 7yrs.
We intend to get the insurance company's mechanical breakdown coverage for the 7yrs we are planning to keep our vehicle.

patyoung

I've had a 2014 GL350 for about 6 months and just over 10k miles. I believe that, like you, one of my main concerns was acceleration. Having lived with it for a while I can say that it hasn't been a problem at all. It's been better than I expected in that regard as it moves pretty well from a stop and no problem when passing slower cars on two lane roads. Certainly, it's missing the the top end of the gas range or a smaller car but I haven't ever needed that on the road and it's much better than some other cars I drive on occasion (rental or my parent's Prius which is just brutal).

The range is definitely nice though I was hoping for better highway mileage as I only get about 24mpg. Maybe that isn't entirely fair because here in the south it's easy to cruise at 80+ on the highway and that isn't exactly helpful for the MPG. I like the idea of it being at least a bit lower carbon footprint and I am hoping that it will have better high mileage reliability than a gas engine would for when we are over 100k and it becomes the kids' car.

infamily

y

+1
we were just quoted $2880 for 7 yrs 100 k factory ELW. Pretty good insurance and it covers everything except door trim, door gaskets etc. we had similar extended warranty for our 2007 GL and it paid for itself with issues like Command center replacement, transmission solenoid replacement and few other minor issues. All these happened after the new car factory warranty expired.

fabbrisd1

I appreciate Paty's comments - which as a 10K mile owner kindof give you verification of what I haev said earlier - the GLK350 is downright "peppy" with mondo torque range - and YES highway fuel economy for a luxury SUV is downright awesome.

The BlueTech disel appeals to those who choose to take a slightly different road - maintenance costs is a "bit" higher - you can do your own DIY AdBlue/DEF 10K mile refills for like $20 - however you will hgave disel fuel filter replacement at 20K miles.

Where prepaid maitenance on a gasser can "lock down" your maitenance costs - due to higher cost MB AdBlue I do not recommend prepaid maintenance for BlueTech.

Frankly 4-5 years out the colors and options you choose will have more of direct resale value impact than whether it's BlueTech or gasser.

There are "some" futurists that feel the GL350 resale value will blip up a bit - since for 2015 foward the ML350 BlueTech will phase out to ML250BT - so the only way 2015 foward - at least what is thought so far - will be the GL to get that massive torque.

Yes - 2013/2014 Certified GL's could be a play here - save a few more $$$, and the CPO 1yr included add on is unlimited mileage cap - however CPO will not cover airmatic struts as the struts are now classified as "wear" items . Assuming the CPO has the colors/feature you want.

whitecoatgeek

Great discussion. I am going to check with out of city dealers to see if I can get a chance to test drive a GL350 again.

BlownV8

If you want massive torque, go with the 2013+ GL450/550 and get an ECU tune: 501 HP and 576 lb-ft of torque. The 550/450 with a tune will make the GL350 feel like an absolute slug in every sense.

Hammer1

Apples to Oranges. Compare your numbers to a ECU-tuned GL350 to be fair. The tune on the GL350btc promises about 580-610 kb-ft of torque, which will still out pull any of the GLs where low end grunt is needed. That's one monster Slug!

BlownV8

Sure, but I did not find anything to support your idea. The tuned GL350 Bluetec has 464 lb-ft of torque.
http://www.renntechmercedes.com/www/node/679

GL450/550 tuned has 576 lb-ft of torque.
http://www.renntechmercedes.com/www/node/1056

You can't beat the GL350 Bluetec for efficiency but for performance it leaves a lot to be desired.

Hammer1

The new GL350 (166) starts out with a stock 455 Lb-Ft of torque. Your tuned number has to be off.

I think you're comparing your 450/550 stats to the old GL320 (164)... that's not quite apples to apples. The new GL350 (166) will still end up with more torque when it is ECU'd.

The amazing thing about this engine is the low rpm (1600) torque this engine produces. For towing it is more ideal. If, someone is not going to tow it makes less sense and if you don't care about gas millage it makes even less sense. If, on the other hand, someone likes acceleration off the line (who doesn't) then the 450 and especially the 550 is going to be a blast... not to mention the 63. Different horses for different courses.

BlownV8

That's directly from Renntech's website. Kleeman lists about the same for their ECU tune on the GL350 Bluetec. The torque on the ECU tuned 450/550 is around the same from 1600 RPM all the way to around 4750 rpm where it starts falling but the hp is still increasing which is normal in a V8. Imagine having 575 lb-ft of torque in the bi-turbo V8 with over 500 Hp and that torque is available at 1600 RPM. Drive one, your diesel will feel lacking in everything except mileage.

Seriously, I know it may be hard to believe but the twin turbo gas engine with the ecu tune will have more torque through the rpm range than the 350 diesel. Now, give the diesel the same displacement as the v8 and and a turbo......game over. The diesel will have much more torque than the twin turbo V8. It's really not fair to compare a mid size single turbo 3.0L diesel v6 to a 4.6L twin turbo V8. The GL350 is great but it is no where near the performance and torque as the tuned V8 even if you are considering both are tuned.

When you twin turbo a gas engine you get serious torque down low because it is a function of how much air is being rammed into the cylinders. My old CL600 bi-turbo had around 800 lb-ft of torque at less than 2000 RPM. It had a 5.5L V12. You wanna talk about a torque monster. The ones with upgraded turbos have over 1000 lb-ft of torque.

Here is the Kleeman KD box for the GL350 Bluetec diesel engine. http://www.gmpperformance.com/index....ail&PID=142338