JoeMa

This is a fare appraisal of both SUV's. The Cadillac has up-to-date tech because they just refreshed the entire car. The mid-cycle refresh due later this year will help but I doubt it will compete with the updated tech in the Escalade.
I was looking at 2014 sales results in the US and the Escalade surpassed the GL in sales:


Escalade - 30,522 (35% increase over 2013)
GL Class - 29,912 (11% decrease over 2013)


Not surprising as buyers love the latest tech and designs. I wonder if MB's strategy to refresh the GL every 6-years is wise? More and more manufactures are refreshing their cars more quickly so they do not lose market share. If the above trend continues, MB risks losing a lot of customers over the next 3 to 4 years.


That being said, I still prefer the ride height and car-like drive of the GL over the trucky feel of an Escalade. But to each his own.

emilner

I was hearing that the GL is slated for it's refresh next summer as a 2017 model. Hope it's not that far off.

bonboon

Like Land Rover (in my experiences at least), GM consistently receives criticism which is undue at times. I personally regard their trucks as bulletproof.

What I was alluding to is that there are certain issues that make it very difficult for me to take the plunge. The old ignition issue and the problematic rollout of the 15 trucks, chief among them.

emilner

If you are on the Caddy forum it seems like a few truck have had a vibration problem but it seems to be a lemon in Canada that's drawing attention since Canada doesn't have lemon laws.

The ignition issue is a joke. If you have 4lbs of keys on your keychain I'm sorry, but it's your fault (speaking metaphorically). And since the Slade is push button its Not an issue anymore.

I'm not personally interested in the new ESV (after 4 previous ones) because I didn't like the rough drive and didn't want the first year model.

bonboon

I'm going to wait and see on the GL refresh for 2016. If it happens, if it's material, etc. If not a meaningful update, it'll prob be a 2016 Denali XL for me. It's pretty easy to get say 6,7k off of one, loaded, with no hassle. Caddy going to be MSRP at least for a bit, unless you can get a supplier discount.

Germancar1

Most S-Class buyers won't consider the new S600 Maybach either, but it has nothing to do with the old Maybachs. Not everyone needs a personal limo. The old Maybach didn't sell because of the design and price, two things that aren't a problem this time around. The old Maybachs started at like 375K. Saying most GL buyers won't consider a Maybach variant doesn't mean anything really, they aren't supposed to. The Maybach variants are for the one percent of the one percenters.

M

Germancar1

That is true too, but people aren't buying and using the 7th row angle as much as you think.

M

43221B

Don't you guys/ladies think the Escalade is way too blingy? I've spoken to so many people that share my opinion. Even if I liked the styling personally, I think Escalades cost far too much to have such polarizing styling. I put the styling in the same camp as the Infiniti QX. The Denali and Tahoe are respectable but gosh the Escalade is tacky.

emilner

I disagree. The Escalade has presence. Is it flashy? Yes. But here it's a good thing...

43221B

But... I'm sure you probably don't care, but plenty of people that can afford an Escalade think they are tacky, very, very tacky as in big gold chain hanging around your neck tacky. Not just flashy. Your SL63 is flashy, which I think is a good thing, but not in the same unrestrained way the Escalade is flashy/tacky. And I'm strictly referring to the exterior. If you want one, go for it, but know, Escalades are very polarizing in a way your SL63 is not.

bonboon

Ok, question for everyone. Anyone seen the attached MB document?

Dealer had it today. He didn't really know when he got it, or how firm it was. He honestly had only heard of GLS name change a day or so ago.

Anyone know the origin of this document? If it's outdated? If the GLS refresh has been moved up to the 16 model year? Or is the name designation coming for 16 but a refresh for 17?

JimBarnhart

First time I've seen that. The refresh would be consistent with previous years where the ML (GLE) gets a refresh 1 year before the GL (GLS).

I personally don't think it would work in their marketing to have the GLS have the same interior as the GLE. It would be the same as the E and the S having the same interior.

bonboon

Personally, just trying to make sense of if they'd change nomenclature to GLS without refreshing. I wouldn't think they would but who knows. I've got a deposit down to order a 16 assuming there will be a refresh. In the event there is not, going to get a Denali XL, I've decided.

Germancar1

Interesting document. Never seen that before, but that does appear to indicate that the facelift will be for the 2017 model year, but I don't think MB will change the GL to the GLS until that happens. No way of knowing until the 2016 order guide is out. Interesting stuff.

Now what could happen is that the 2017 model year could start early next year or in spring in 2016, not the fall of 2016. I guess we'll know that once they show the GL/GLS facelift.

M

Axxlrod

I've seen that picture before; not sure where exactly, but I believe somewhere on this forum.

That's what prompted me to start thinking about the timing of our next vehicle. Our GL350 lease ends in June of 2016, and I had read that production of the refreshed GLS will start in July 2016 as the 2017 model year. Hence why I inquired about extending our lease a few months to get the redesigned GLS.

But we really don't know for sure yet.

Nihsel10

Yeah. There is a huge price gap between the GL and Escalade. The GL550 is like the Escalade Premium, price wise. The Fully load GL550 with the Designo, distronic, active curve, etc. would cost around (not exact) $113K. The Premium level Escalade fully loaded with the Kona interior, power retractable steps w/ lights will be maxed at $96K. One disappointing thing about the Escalade is the Platinum edition. It's basically the Premium level with things added like a cooler in the center glove box, different rims, alcantara headliner, and change in grille style. The one thing great I like from the GL is that the top-tier, the GL63, is the hand built engine. That shows that, that really is the platinum edition of GLs.

There have been lots of discussion about it in the Cadillac forums. The people that are experiencing those vibration bought the vehicle when it first went to production. It's the 4th gen of Escalade, problems are bound to happen on the first year of the new model. I remember that from the 07 ESV I had, which had so many issue and ended up in the dealer bunch of times for the rear lift gate and a cracked windshield which was later found out the rain sensor was causing the crack due to its weight. The 2010 ESV I had and 2013 Platinum I have now doesn't have any of that issue any more. It's perfect. I had a vibration issue on my 2013 Platinum, but that went away after doing a road force wheel balance. By year 2 or 3, the vibration problems will be resolved.






Yeah I saw those numbers. I was amazed. Gas price somehow got involved from what I have heard. When the gas price went down, the sale of SUV went up. When the gas went up, no one was buying any SUV. Quite an interesting trend.

After my bad experience with the 2012 GL I had, I started to forgive MB after getting the new 2015. I love it now and works great in the city I am in.


I am actually kinda pumped to see the changes on the mid-cycle refresh.

jtse

Am I the only one to notice the ML and GLS says face lift for model year 2017 in that document?

It isn't the 2016 model year that we have been thinking about....

jerome8283

This recently posted article implies the GLS facelift will be out later this year, I guess in Germany.


http://www.worldcarfans.com/11502288...ing-in-Germany

bonboon

That is not only the most current info floating around out there (it's been a lull of over a month in the press on this topic) but also arguably the most credible. Germancarfans is on point.

If they are right and it is shown at Paris, I suppose best case scenario might be US deliveries of Dec or so? Later? I'm not sure how it works with mid model year intros of Benz refreshes. Maybe, like mentioned earlier and consistent with that document, it's a 2017 that you can take delivery of in Spring 2016

fabbrisd1

I have a lot of love for the GL - certainly the new/new 2015 1/2 (yes there is a 15 1/2, snce early 15 was a disaster tranny wise)- and for me the Escalade ESV has the largest rear cabin I have experienced - and some "need" that extra room - and that extra room, again ESV, significant. On the Escalade (std, not ESV) - rear cabin has different dimensions than the GL some say tomAto, some say tomAHto..

Interesting to compare MSRP's (real rigs) between the Caddy and the GL - since with signifacantly higer MSRP overall - the Caddy you would expect the dealer to hand you a check for $10K of the extra $15K - but with ESV production so fracked up at GM - GM doesn't give extra back to the Caddy dealers to do that.

If you think GL orders are slow - then Cadillac pre-orders are "I can put it on order but I just don't know when it will be here, really. I have one customer's ESV on order - that was 9 weeks to production - sitting at GM's version of VPC for 3 weeks already - all waiting, now-a-days, for the ESV really to get finished up - with no completion/ship date.

My opinion, the GL does earnestly "drive more like a luxury sedan" - and the Escalade drives well, and like a sophisticated box truck.

In a GL - for the poster that has problems reaching Nav screen - I push the Voice portal and say "Navigation" and it comes up - or hit the dash Nav button. I do like the S-Class aluminum direct-access function buttons - so yeah, I would like to trand more in that direction.

No one will really/really know for sure on 2016 GL/ML until the dealer guide is released - just back from Vance Friday and they still have yet to make final decisions on what's/what's for when on the "refresh".

Interior wise - i "expect" interior will tend towards the look/feel you can see in some of the recent online photo's for the GLE-Coupe - which, so you know - is not the same 166 chassis as the current X166 and W166 -

jerome8283

fabbrisd1, what exactly were the tranny issues? Also how can one tell they are getting a 15 1/2? Thx

Ah_gl450

If it's not the same chassis, then what is it built on?

luv2sleep

Here's my 2 cents. I've been back and forth between technology. We left the X164 because of the outdated Navi, amongst other reasons. Every time I'm in the market for a lux SUV, I've considered the Escalade but it was never in my top 3. The new ESV has very nice features but I'm not a transformer fan. Just can't get past it's looks; it's like loving a fat ugly chick who has a great personality and beautiful inside but you still have to wake up to her.
The Escalade is a big body on frame SUV therefore will not have the same ride quality as the GL. I can't say for sure since I have not driven it but this generalization for the most part, is the case. If you can get past the looks, it's size, and the ride then the Escalade is a very nice lux SUV.

fabbrisd1

Please understand on the Mercedes two things -

1) The "model designation change-up" is brand strategic with the intention buyers new to Mercedes to easily identify/compare between Mercedes sedans with Mercedes SUV's - especially on their pre-dealer-visit research - that's quite a straightforward thing.

2) In 7 model year product life-cycle - "refresh" at Mercedes can elective be implemented 3rd or 4th model year (G-Wagen a notable exception) - with the intent to "freshen" the model - 1st primarily to offer existing lease Mercedes lease customers added incentive/excitement to move forward to "newer+more" Mercedes models - and 2nd to offer new Mercedes shoppers a more updated/refined interior and exterior design as compared to 1st generation - 3rd to offer opportunity to consolidate improvement/update to safety/control/entertainment systems.

The "document" posted describes the transition form current model series designations - to the "new" model designations.

Let me be straight forward - in the North American market - no one will have confirmation of anything until the 1st release of the Dealer Order Guide for each model is released.

JoeMa

For what its worth, I found this rendering of a GLS. If this is the direction, I like it.