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Tyre scrubbing on (full) lock

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Old 12-31-2016, 06:54 AM
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Tyre scrubbing on (full) lock

I've now done nearly 3,000 miles on my GLC43 and the tyre scrubbing / crabbing is getting worse and worse. It used to be on full steering lock only, but now is also doing it on half lock when turning into our road at 30-40 mph.

There is quite an active thread on a UK orientated MB forum about this, but I'm surprised there is no mention at all about this on here.

The best way of describing it is like having manual locking diffs and the front diff is locked on a dry road in an old skool mechanical 4x4. You then get the tyre/wheel jumping and ultimately have gear box wind up.

The feel and noise is truly pronounced, people outside the car can hear it and see it happening and it is just plain embarrassing when you drive a nice car.

I understand all the technical explanation for it; set up to perform best on dry roads, better handling, tighter turning circle blah blah blah. Yes really get that. But lets not forget, these aren't race cars setup for track use only, this is a normal smallish SUV for family use.

My main dealer has so far brushed it off as standard characteristic of the car, to that I should be running winter tyres on it to avoid this from happening. I'm living in the south of the UK, not in the Alps. And if that is truly the case than the purchase should come with a warning and mandatory option to buy winter tyres/wheels as well.

I'm going through the initial stages of what is called rejecting the car, so there is a little bit of a song/dance between me, the dealer, Mercedes UK which can only really play out when Mercedes is back to work next week.

From what I can gather it is not just the 21" wheel option, I've seen reports of standard 220d 250d on 19" and 20" wheels as well. But all are RHD vehicles.

Do any of you left hand drive vehicle owners experience anything like this?
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Old 12-31-2016, 07:25 AM
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Oh dear, sorry to hear that - that's not good news.
Excuse my ignorance on scrubbing/crabbing but can you give a bit more detail (in idiot-speak) for what you are experiencing? Is it a kind of juddering?
Mine is on 19 winters but can go out and do some experimenting.
I have noticed a slight judder on full lock but nothing more.
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Old 12-31-2016, 07:29 AM
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Yes it is a kind of juddering, varying from feeling like you loose traction, like the car wants to go straight ahead, like it is rolling over its tyres, to the differentials locking the inside wheel and stopping it from turning.

100% reproducible on full lock, and now more and more so between full and half lock of the steering wheel. More so in cold and damp weather.
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Old 12-31-2016, 08:59 AM
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Yep.. I am in the same scenario.. waiting on MB UK to open and then gonna talk to them too. interestingly, another friend of mine who has a 250 GLC D with 20" wheels also called me today and told me that he could not get his car to move in a car park.. he was stuck in there for approx. 20 mins and was scared that he was going to hit the side of the car park ramp.. this is getting seriously stupid.. have MB dropped a clanger here??
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Old 12-31-2016, 09:59 AM
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Just been for a round-the-block test run and I don't have an issue (yet!). However I am on non-staggered winter 19s, having removed the non-runflat Michelin Latitude staggered set to my garage on day 3. Did notice that on full lock as I pulled out of the dealer on pick-up there was a slight judder but put it down to new tyres!
Very surprised that this should be an issue - I had an X5 4.8is for 10 years with staggered tyres (315/35 R20 at the rear) and never had a problem with this (although a few others!).
Such a shame it's ruining the experience.
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Old 12-31-2016, 10:34 AM
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According to the sales director as my dealer the official 'fix' is a set of winter wheels and tires. So that could very well explain why you aren't experiencing it at the moment.

I'd be very disappointed if that is true, and do think the car should come with a warning prior to purchase that winter tires are not optional for this vehicle.
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Old 12-31-2016, 11:15 AM
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I've just spent the last half hour reading through the two threads on the UK forum you mentioned and it is interesting reading.
I can manage a few clunks and judders at full lock/low speed personally but your issue sounds much more serious and wholly unacceptable.
Also, I was expecting run-flats on the standard 19s and got non-RFT Michelins (Nov build) which does now make me wonder why.
Good luck with it - hope it gets sorted.
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Old 12-31-2016, 11:31 AM
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Yes and the sales director can recreate it on his own GLC 250d AMG Sport demonstrator. Actually he can do it on both he had since September.

To hope they can resolve it, I find it fascinating how the left hand drive models don't seem to have this and are very quiet about it. What about those RHD models from SA and Oz that are on here? Have you guys got anything like this? Guess the temperatures don't get cold enough
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Old 12-31-2016, 01:52 PM
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Dejongj,
We haven't taken delivery of ours yet (US LHD vehicle). I did not notice any crabbing when we test drove a model with the 21" wheels on perf rf tires. But I don't believe I did any maneuvering with the wheel at or near full lock.
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Old 12-31-2016, 05:52 PM
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Hi Dejongj,

That sounds quite worrying and am concerned to hear of the problems you've encountered. You mention a U.K. based forum which discusses this problem further, could you post the link, or pm it to me please?

Please keep us posted how you get on with MB next week, and if they acknowledge the problem. Let's hope a fix/software upgrade is found soon.

Many thanks
Andy
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Old 12-31-2016, 06:06 PM
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Here is the link Andy, first thing I will do when I pick car up in March is listen for noise on full lock.

http://www.glcforums.com/forum/106-m...ring-lock.html
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Old 12-31-2016, 06:21 PM
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Thanks Philamg, I'll have a read of the forum and I'll be doing exactly the same as you when I pick up mine in March.
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Old 01-01-2017, 02:51 AM
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Had this happen to my 250d.
Dealer ignorded it. 1500km later I returned it with photo evidence of tyre rubber pulling on front passenger tyre. Had 4 wheel align done and it was fixed. Demanded a print of machine data with pre and post settings, proving tyres were out. Running on Pirelli run flats. Had tyres rotated to even out wear.
I will now have them rotated every 10000 (km).
Best is I now have factory settings so I can get cheaper third party tyre places to do an alignment later. Still a little crabbing on one small roundabout when wet, but so much better.
Demand alignment and copy of data from machine.
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Old 01-01-2017, 03:00 AM
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First photo tyre crabbing, second photo normal tyre on other corner and last is copy of specs for RHD Veh with run flats, 20" Pirelli.
Hope this helps.
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Tyre scrubbing on (full) lock-img_2049.jpg   Tyre scrubbing on (full) lock-img_2048.jpg   Tyre scrubbing on (full) lock-image.jpg  
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Old 01-01-2017, 03:55 AM
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Thanks for the responses - interesting to see that so far it is only RHD vehicles. Teckno that 'evidence' could come in super handy, one thank you is not enough

Here are the links to the UK based forums.

http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/amg-l...ed-judder.html
http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/wheel...ng-lock-2.html
http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/gener...new-glc-9.html
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Old 01-01-2017, 04:32 AM
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Happy New Year!
As a man with a degree in history, I found this useful -

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Old 01-01-2017, 06:21 PM
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Mine feels like 4x4 high lock when I turn at or close to full lock. It has done this since new, I have about 1,400 miles on the vehicle so far. LH drive stock 18" Perrelli Scorpion run flats.
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Old 01-02-2017, 03:02 AM
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Originally Posted by edofloat View Post
Mine feels like 4x4 high lock when I turn at or close to full lock. It has done this since new, I have about 1,400 miles on the vehicle so far. LH drive stock 18" Perrelli Scorpion run flats.
Thanks - yes that is exactly what I mean and how it feels to me. Not something that should happen on a permanent AWD vehicle and hasn't been my experience with my GL previously.

But...bang there goes my theory of RHD cars only. Interesting that you notice it but so many others don't. It seems to be a lot more consistent with UK vehicles looking at the reports. But oddly many have not remarked upon it according to my sales director.
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Old 01-02-2017, 03:37 AM
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In case someone isn't clear on what is happening, here is a video made by someone else (Tony Mac) in his GLC 250d. I've got to admit, mine isn't as bad as that one, but already find it way unacceptable.


Last edited by dejongj; 01-03-2017 at 09:46 AM. Reason: Replaced link with youtube to reduce bandwidth for the original owner.
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Old 01-02-2017, 05:30 AM
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Well. Sent an email to MB Customer Services and got this reply back.

--------------------------------------------------
Thank you for contacting Mercedes-Benz Customer Service.

I am writing further to your recent enquiry regarding the handling of your GLC. The juddering sensation you have described is due to the change of flexibility within the tyre sidewall, the grip between the front tyres and the type of road surface being driven over. It is something which can be felt only at very low speeds, and when a certain percentage of wheel lock is engaged for turning. This is demonstratively more evident in colder temperatures due to the changes in the tyre rubber elasticity.

As per the Mercedes-Benz Digital Handbook for your car, we would always recommend the use of winter tyres for temperatures which fall below approximately +7 degrees. The recommendation given to improve this characteristic would be to change the tyres on your car to suitable tyres for the winter period. Please be assured that this is a comfort issue and does not effect the safety or overall performance of your car. The judder is exacerbated by the colder temperature, and normally resolves itself once friction between the tyre and the road surface "warms" the tyre and restores the malleability of the rubber.
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Old 01-02-2017, 06:31 AM
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Yup same story my main dealer gave me. So how come my GL and your previous ML never exhibited this behaviour. They are fibbing.

You should send send them Tony Mac video. It is such nonsense to suggest this is normal.
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Old 01-02-2017, 06:45 AM
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Unbelievable reply from MB, I have driven for over 40 years and never had this issue on any of my cars, a bit worrying when I will be collecting my first MB in March!.
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Old 01-02-2017, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Philamg View Post
Unbelievable reply from MB, I have driven for over 40 years and never had this issue on any of my cars, a bit worrying when I will be collecting my first MB in March!.
fully agreed. I had the same 21" Continental SportContacts on my GL and none of such issues. Sure I appreciate that these situations can occasionally happen, but a persistent behaviour reproduceable all the time is an inherent design fault in my opinion. It is reasonable to expect this to not happen on a car, unless EVERY car has this occurring.
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Old 01-02-2017, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Philamg View Post
Unbelievable reply from MB, I have driven for over 40 years and never had this issue on any of my cars, a bit worrying when I will be collecting my first MB in March!.
if I was you, I would be calling the dealer and telling him to put the order on hold until this is fixed...
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Old 01-02-2017, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Philamg View Post
Unbelievable reply from MB, I have driven for over 40 years and never had this issue on any of my cars, a bit worrying when I will be collecting my first MB in March!.
Originally Posted by dejongj View Post
fully agreed. I had the same 21" Continental SportContacts on my GL and none of such issues. Sure I appreciate that these situations can occasionally happen, but a persistent behaviour reproduceable all the time is an inherent design fault in my opinion. It is reasonable to expect this to not happen on a car, unless EVERY car has this occurring.
Didn't notice your current car, exactly as you know Land Rover they know a thing or two about 4x4 vehicles, and not just them, my other Mercedes GL class and G Wagon don't exhibit this; nor does my VW Golf, nor my Audi Quattro. Nor any of my other past 4x4 vehicles (unless in Hi gearing on dry surface).

I can't say it is an absolutely nonsense response as there is a grain of truth in it. However considering Mercedes's experience with this, the fact that it is 2017 now, you can reasonably expect a vehicle to not have this characteristic inherently in its design.

For you it is slightly different as you've not yet taken delivery, and the changes maybe that when you do take delivery the ground temperature has risen sufficiently such that you may not notice it until November/December next year.

As per Rexgold, I'd have a serious conversation with the dealership now and see what they say about it. If I was a betting man I guess they would suggest it is normal

Now if you were to buy the car and the sales person told you; Mr PhilAMG you should know that we you turn into a corner the vehicle may judder, combined with knocking noises and premature tyre wear, but don't worry that is a normal characteristic of the car when it is less than 10 degrees Celsius. Would you buy such a car?

I just don't think it is a reasonable stance from Mercedes at all.
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