ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM..... CRABBING
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 30
Likes: 9
From: NYC - LA
2021 GLC 63S Coupe
ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM..... CRABBING
ok fellas, lets talk crabbing.
my 2019 GLC suv didnt have this issue at all.
my new 2021 glc S coupe has this issue.
and boy, may i say, it is ****ing annoying.
i live in nyc, live in manhattan.
i am constantly making tight turns.
no reason why a $120k vehicle should have issues like this.
i saw the issue in the past and was happy my glc at the moment didnt have the issue but now, it sucks.
its my only complaint about the new car forreal.
i wanna get opinions and thoughts from the rest of you homies.
do you have the issue? have you experienced it? how does it make you feel? what do you think mercedes should do about it?
my 2019 GLC suv didnt have this issue at all.
my new 2021 glc S coupe has this issue.
and boy, may i say, it is ****ing annoying.
i live in nyc, live in manhattan.
i am constantly making tight turns.
no reason why a $120k vehicle should have issues like this.
i saw the issue in the past and was happy my glc at the moment didnt have the issue but now, it sucks.
its my only complaint about the new car forreal.
i wanna get opinions and thoughts from the rest of you homies.
do you have the issue? have you experienced it? how does it make you feel? what do you think mercedes should do about it?
Junior Member
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 46
Likes: 7
GLC 63
$120k? I assume that is a currency thing, I didn't pay near that.
Yes, I have the issue. Didn't watch the video. My ambient temperatures are normal below 50 degrees F which cause the tires to do this, happened in past vehicles (Grand Cherokee SRT) due to tires and Temps. I'm currently looking at getting all season or all weather tires.
Yes, I have the issue. Didn't watch the video. My ambient temperatures are normal below 50 degrees F which cause the tires to do this, happened in past vehicles (Grand Cherokee SRT) due to tires and Temps. I'm currently looking at getting all season or all weather tires.
Junior Member
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 23
Likes: 13
2019 M2 Comp / 2013 Q5 / 2020 GLC63
I don't get the big obsession with this in numerous posts.Pretty much every car I've had with wide summer tires has done this at some level when temps drop. Not "exclusive" to the GLC, and easily resolved with tires better suited to the season
Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 44
Likes: 8
From: Baton Rouge, LA
2020 GLC 63 AMG
Well my S6 and S4 didn't crab even as low as the mid-30s; however, my GLC will crab even in the 70s when the tires have yet to heat up. The steering geometry of the GLC must have something to do with it. I'm going to try to switch to Pilot Sport 4S tires when the Contis I have wear out to see if that helps. I may consider all season tires, but haven't run those tires in over 20 years and concerned about poor handling and breaking performance if I go this route.
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2021
Posts: 289
Likes: 69
From: Japan
Mercedes Benz AMG GLC 63s
G’Day mate, I feel your pain as does every owner who has the GLC platform…more so those that have the 63/ 63s models as they exhibit this tire juddering/ grabbing in a more aggressive manner.
For the non-63/ 63s models - aka the 43AMG and others; do actually have a suspension fix with replacing the various components via Merc through your warranty as a car defect (from what I’ve been told, please check though).
For the GLC 63/ 63s models there is no suspension remedies to be had via Merc through any warranty or defect claim as of writing this to my knowledge. As a result the only fix is to change the stock high performance 4s runflat tires to performance oriented all season tires.
My car has and never will be out on a race track or road course because I never bought it for that reason even though it’s plenty capable of doing so, I don’t day dream of thinking I’m a race driver with an over inflated ego so the driving I do, is merely spirited driving when and where the opportunity arises, meaning when my wife and kids are not in the car he he he.
So in a nutshell there are fixes for the normal GLC’s whereas the 63/ 63’s AMG GLC models must obfuscate this issue with all season tires, which does actually work.
Just my 2c worth👍
For the non-63/ 63s models - aka the 43AMG and others; do actually have a suspension fix with replacing the various components via Merc through your warranty as a car defect (from what I’ve been told, please check though).
For the GLC 63/ 63s models there is no suspension remedies to be had via Merc through any warranty or defect claim as of writing this to my knowledge. As a result the only fix is to change the stock high performance 4s runflat tires to performance oriented all season tires.
My car has and never will be out on a race track or road course because I never bought it for that reason even though it’s plenty capable of doing so, I don’t day dream of thinking I’m a race driver with an over inflated ego so the driving I do, is merely spirited driving when and where the opportunity arises, meaning when my wife and kids are not in the car he he he.
So in a nutshell there are fixes for the normal GLC’s whereas the 63/ 63’s AMG GLC models must obfuscate this issue with all season tires, which does actually work.
Just my 2c worth👍
ok fellas, lets talk crabbing.
https://youtu.be/VTT0U8fciR0
my 2019 GLC suv didnt have this issue at all.
my new 2021 glc S coupe has this issue.
and boy, may i say, it is ****ing annoying.
i live in nyc, live in manhattan.
i am constantly making tight turns.
no reason why a $120k vehicle should have issues like this.
i saw the issue in the past and was happy my glc at the moment didnt have the issue but now, it sucks.
its my only complaint about the new car forreal.
i wanna get opinions and thoughts from the rest of you homies.
do you have the issue? have you experienced it? how does it make you feel? what do you think mercedes should do about it?
https://youtu.be/VTT0U8fciR0
my 2019 GLC suv didnt have this issue at all.
my new 2021 glc S coupe has this issue.
and boy, may i say, it is ****ing annoying.
i live in nyc, live in manhattan.
i am constantly making tight turns.
no reason why a $120k vehicle should have issues like this.
i saw the issue in the past and was happy my glc at the moment didnt have the issue but now, it sucks.
its my only complaint about the new car forreal.
i wanna get opinions and thoughts from the rest of you homies.
do you have the issue? have you experienced it? how does it make you feel? what do you think mercedes should do about it?
Member
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 101
Likes: 43
GLK350 2013, GLC63S AMG
Well my S6 and S4 didn't crab even as low as the mid-30s; however, my GLC will crab even in the 70s when the tires have yet to heat up. The steering geometry of the GLC must have something to do with it. I'm going to try to switch to Pilot Sport 4S tires when the Contis I have wear out to see if that helps. I may consider all season tires, but haven't run those tires in over 20 years and concerned about poor handling and breaking performance if I go this route.
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Out Of Control!!
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 11,427
Likes: 5,336
From: San Francisco Bay Area
2019 C63CS
This has been explained before. Performance cars deliberately don't always have perfect Ackerman geometry, because they are tuned for handling and high speeds. With the GLC the issue is exacerbated, because of the fixed torque split AWD system. Earlier Audis had the same issue. My 2007 B7 S4 did it, but my 2013 RS5 didn't because of a better center differential. Even RWD vehicles can have this. The GT BS does it badly in parking lots and it costs much more than a GLC. It's by design. My C63S coupe does it occasionally, too. It's the price to pay for the handling. When temperatures are warmer and the tires are softer then it doesn't skip as much as the tire can deform more. Just the nature of the beast.
Last edited by superswiss; Dec 31, 2021 at 12:23 AM.
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Member
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 101
Likes: 43
GLK350 2013, GLC63S AMG
This has been explained before. Performance cars deliberately don't always have perfect Ackerman geometry, because they are tuned for handling and high speeds. With the GLC the issue is exacerbated, because of the fixed torque split AWD system. Earlier Audis had the same issue. My 2007 B7 S4 did it, but my 2013 RS5 didn't because of a better center differential. Even RWD vehicles can have this. The GT BS does it badly in parking lots and it costs much more than a GLC. It's by design. My C63S coupe does it occasionally, too. It's the price to pay for the handling. When temperatures are warmer and the tires are softer then it doesn't skip as much as the tire can deform more. Just the nature of the beast.
Im not an easy to scare dood but i used to precisely pilot my cars half an inch from other objects and other cars and every time it crabs with this terrible sound and feedback in a whole body and steering wheel i lay a brick in my pants thinking damn i got old and hit something when im not. My wife really freaks out when it happens and it doesn't add any faith into brand and this kind of design. I know nothing is perfect, could buy a macan and enjoy way better ride and handling but this issue with crabbing is really really bad and they had enough time to work it out on at least facelift cars.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 11,427
Likes: 5,336
From: San Francisco Bay Area
2019 C63CS
Well, then merc falls behind in their "handling" design pretty bad coz there r many cars that handle better and don't have this stupid flaw in em.
Im not an easy to scare dood but i used to precisely pilot my cars half an inch from other objects and other cars and every time it crabs with this terrible sound and feedback in a whole body and steering wheel i lay a brick in my pants thinking damn i got old and hit something when im not. My wife really freaks out when it happens and it doesn't add any faith into brand and this kind of design. I know nothing is perfect, could buy a macan and enjoy way better ride and handling but this issue with crabbing is really really bad and they had enough time to work it out on at least facelift cars.
Im not an easy to scare dood but i used to precisely pilot my cars half an inch from other objects and other cars and every time it crabs with this terrible sound and feedback in a whole body and steering wheel i lay a brick in my pants thinking damn i got old and hit something when im not. My wife really freaks out when it happens and it doesn't add any faith into brand and this kind of design. I know nothing is perfect, could buy a macan and enjoy way better ride and handling but this issue with crabbing is really really bad and they had enough time to work it out on at least facelift cars.
Last edited by superswiss; Dec 31, 2021 at 11:57 AM.
Junior Member
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 23
Likes: 13
2019 M2 Comp / 2013 Q5 / 2020 GLC63
Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm no fan of the GLC, but it also happens in the C43. The main issue on these cars is the old 4Matic. Maybe I should have pointed this out more. It's an inferior AWD system to pretty much anything out there. The problem is there's too much torque going to the front wheels at all times, and what you actually get in slow tight turns is center differential binding, which causes most of the crabbing. You get a similar issue in a 4WD with the diffs locked. In most other performance cars, where it's an artifact of purely the Ackermann geometry, it typically only happens on wet or loose grounds when the front wheels can easily skip and it's nowhere as dramatic as in the GLC/C43. MB effectively fixed the issue with 4Matic+, but the GLC is an old platform. Have to wait for the next gen to get 4Matic+. The big difference with 4Matic+ is that under normal circumstances 100% of the torque goes to the rear and the front wheels are essentially decoupled. Porsche uses the same design for their AWD system. So it's effectively RWD, unless traction requirements call for sending torque to the front wheels. There's no center differential in those systems, so no binding issues.
My old 2013 3.0T Q5 w/Torsen center diff would bind up in reverse w/the wheels cranked, but it would only chatter/stutter/crab when I had Summer tires on it and cold. With AS or Winter tires, you could tell the tires were relieving all tension, but you didn't get the pops as you would with a stiff sidewall, non-flexible Summer tire
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 11,427
Likes: 5,336
From: San Francisco Bay Area
2019 C63CS
I've got a lot more experience w/Audi AWD so I could be talking outta my a$$ here, but in the US, the 2020 GLC63 has 4Matic+ and the added sport diff. Were pre-FL GLC63s 4Matic only w/the center diff and fixed torque split? I can't really find anything definitive that says either way
My old 2013 3.0T Q5 w/Torsen center diff would bind up in reverse w/the wheels cranked, but it would only chatter/stutter/crab when I had Summer tires on it and cold. With AS or Winter tires, you could tell the tires were relieving all tension, but you didn't get the pops as you would with a stiff sidewall, non-flexible Summer tire
My old 2013 3.0T Q5 w/Torsen center diff would bind up in reverse w/the wheels cranked, but it would only chatter/stutter/crab when I had Summer tires on it and cold. With AS or Winter tires, you could tell the tires were relieving all tension, but you didn't get the pops as you would with a stiff sidewall, non-flexible Summer tire
Member
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 101
Likes: 43
GLK350 2013, GLC63S AMG
My 2021 63s has 4Matic+ with electronic diff in it so in my case it must be a suspension design flaw, not a tq distribution issue. I have steep underground parkade and It crabs and pops when the car starts to roll downhill from start with pretty much 0 tq applied to the wheel so def not a transmission quirk.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 11,427
Likes: 5,336
From: San Francisco Bay Area
2019 C63CS
My 2021 63s has 4Matic+ with electronic diff in it so in my case it must be a suspension design flaw, not a tq distribution issue. I have steep underground parkade and It crabs and pops when the car starts to roll downhill from start with pretty much 0 tq applied to the wheel so def not a transmission quirk.
Last edited by superswiss; Dec 31, 2021 at 06:27 PM.
Member
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 101
Likes: 43
GLK350 2013, GLC63S AMG
Differential binding requires no torque. It's purely a wheel speed difference issue caused by the less than perfect Ackerman geometry that causes the diff to bind. This behavior indicates that the GLC doesn't really have 4Matic+, even though it says so on the outside.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 11,427
Likes: 5,336
From: San Francisco Bay Area
2019 C63CS
Don't wanna take the thread in a different direction, but you just gonna have to adapt to the transmission characteristics. With a clutch instead of a torque converter there's a more direct connection between the engine and the wheels and every jerk or jolt will be felt. Much like a manual transmission. It's intentionally so to immediately respond to throttle tip in. You just have to be more assertive on the throttle when starting off. It also adapts over time. Don't know how many miles you have on it, but my C63S coupe with the same transmission is great at 24k miles. It did take a while for me and the transmission to be fully in tune, and the 2019/20 C63S had some coding issues with the AMG Drive Unit that did resolve some initial transmission issues, but it doesn't look like the GLC was affected by this. The 9-MTC is definitely tuned on the edgier side, but I like it. The idiosyncrasies keep it fresh, interesting and involving.
Last edited by superswiss; Dec 31, 2021 at 06:55 PM.
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 52
Likes: 7
From: US
63
I have a 2020 FL GLC63 with 21" Michelin PS4S summer tires. Crabbing only becomes apparent when temps are around 50F/10C and below, or sometimes on rough/broken asphalt. In winter I switch to 20" Michelin PA5 SUV tires. I have not experienced crabbing with these tires.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,040
Likes: 161
From: Melbourne, Australia
2016 GLC 250d AMG pack, 2017 GLC Coupe 250d AMG pack , 2002 BMW 330Ci convertible, 2021 BMX X1 sD20i
Aussie here.
Superswiss has made excellent points that explain quite well the crabbing issues.
Your vehicles are Left hand drive, so much less crabbing than Right hand drive models sold in Australia and UK.
Mercedes Germany in 2019 after much complaining designed a new steering knuckle for GLC 220, GLC220d and 250, 250d models.
They let owners know in UK. Aussie MB did not recall or issue owners with this advice and each owner had to do battle via Dealership and HQ to have knuckles changed over.
MBAu initially fitted Goodyear AllSeason to 20” rims, the most common rim size set by MBAu, again only when owners pressed hard for a fix.
This helped greatly, the manual for Australia said change from summer tyres to winter tyres when temp dropped to 7C. Not practical !!!
When new knuckles fitted with All Season tyres means 95% improvement.
Increasing the pressure to around 38-40psi also helped as well as 4 wheel alignment.
Regular tyre rotation helped, difficult with staggered rims, just swap sides, not front to rear.
GLC43 or 63 NEVER got a redesigned front knuckle assembly for right hand drive models.
Some owners with 21” rims fitted Conti tyres with BMW “star” tyres, increased pressure and big improvements (not MO stamped tyres).
Vredestein tyres in UK had an All Season tyre too, not avail here in Oz, it got good reports.
Rim size, tyre pressure, All Season, not summer tyres all and wheel align all helps to minimise this ‘Characteristic” that Mercedes are keen to describe it as !!
90% of all GLC 200 to 300 series came with 20” AMG alloy wheels as standard. GLC43, 63 models all had 21” rims.
Hope this helps.
Good luck.
Superswiss has made excellent points that explain quite well the crabbing issues.
Your vehicles are Left hand drive, so much less crabbing than Right hand drive models sold in Australia and UK.
Mercedes Germany in 2019 after much complaining designed a new steering knuckle for GLC 220, GLC220d and 250, 250d models.
They let owners know in UK. Aussie MB did not recall or issue owners with this advice and each owner had to do battle via Dealership and HQ to have knuckles changed over.
MBAu initially fitted Goodyear AllSeason to 20” rims, the most common rim size set by MBAu, again only when owners pressed hard for a fix.
This helped greatly, the manual for Australia said change from summer tyres to winter tyres when temp dropped to 7C. Not practical !!!
When new knuckles fitted with All Season tyres means 95% improvement.
Increasing the pressure to around 38-40psi also helped as well as 4 wheel alignment.
Regular tyre rotation helped, difficult with staggered rims, just swap sides, not front to rear.
GLC43 or 63 NEVER got a redesigned front knuckle assembly for right hand drive models.
Some owners with 21” rims fitted Conti tyres with BMW “star” tyres, increased pressure and big improvements (not MO stamped tyres).
Vredestein tyres in UK had an All Season tyre too, not avail here in Oz, it got good reports.
Rim size, tyre pressure, All Season, not summer tyres all and wheel align all helps to minimise this ‘Characteristic” that Mercedes are keen to describe it as !!
90% of all GLC 200 to 300 series came with 20” AMG alloy wheels as standard. GLC43, 63 models all had 21” rims.
Hope this helps.
Good luck.
Member
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 133
Likes: 26
From: San Francisco, CA
2020 GLC63
It is what it is. There's no way to lessen this issue unless you downgrade to crappier tires. It doesn't bother me much because I know what is happening. However for those who don't - it sounds like the car is broken. When I have passengers they ask me wtf is wrong with my car.
Should it be an issue on such a expensive car? NO!
How do we solve the problem? Buy another car.
Should it be an issue on such a expensive car? NO!
How do we solve the problem? Buy another car.
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2021
Posts: 13
Likes: 6
2018 AMG GTR
I had a 2020 Cayman GT4 and it was quite bad. It was honestly the first car I owned that displayed that behavior.
I switched to an AMG GTR and it does it too. My wife's GLC 63 also does it.
It's definitely not just a Mercedes thing.
I switched to an AMG GTR and it does it too. My wife's GLC 63 also does it.
It's definitely not just a Mercedes thing.
Super Member
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 881
Likes: 300
AMG GLC 63s Coupe
Then our only option is to hide the problem with softer AS tires to release that popping stress. Once I have a chance to get a set of pilots as4 as they are oos for months ill report if it worked to reduce crabbing. Aussies managed to press stealerships into swapping tires to some tractor like all seasons and reported way less popping with those but other problems arised like handling, noise, look etc.. This darn crabbing and stupid tranny bucking in 1 to 2 gear is a huge spoon of tar in this amazing v8 pot of honey, hope they can fix at least tranny jerking with sw updates.
Super Member
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 881
Likes: 300
AMG GLC 63s Coupe
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 11,427
Likes: 5,336
From: San Francisco Bay Area
2019 C63CS
I am not sure why and my buddies in the GLC Club don't believe it but, mine went away when I got a TCU tune. An example is- I had to go to a meeting this morning and it was 31F outside, I normally drive my Audi if it is under 45F, but I didn't have access to it this morning. I am on PS4S and no crabbing at all on the street or sharp u-turns in the parking lot.
Last edited by superswiss; Jan 6, 2022 at 05:02 PM.
Member
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 226
Likes: 47
From: N. Maryland
2024 GLE 580
Then our only option is to hide the problem with softer AS tires to release that popping stress. Once I have a chance to get a set of pilots as4 as they are oos for months ill report if it worked to reduce crabbing. Aussies managed to press stealerships into swapping tires to some tractor like all seasons and reported way less popping with those but other problems arised like handling, noise, look etc.. This darn crabbing and stupid tranny bucking in 1 to 2 gear is a huge spoon of tar in this amazing v8 pot of honey, hope they can fix at least tranny jerking with sw updates.
Why would you want summer tires in NYC during the cold months anyway? Actually, why would you want summers ever if you're driving so much in the city with the crap streets?
I put the Michelin PS4 A/S on my 43; they handle great in dry and wet, decent in snow and ice, crab less, are more comfortable, plus look better than the OEM Dunlop summer tires my GLC came with. I'm also getting better MPG and they should last longer.
How much incremental performance are you really losing (really need) with A/S from your 4,500 lb SUV, not to mention with high perched seats and steering wheel. These are no sports cars, or even sport wagons.
