Hi all,
I'm thinking of doing something different, after years of (mostly happily) owning American sports cars and for the past 3 daily drivers, driving the perfect car for people who absolutely hate cars (Lexus GX). I've never owned a German car and figured, why not.

Here are what I'm trying to decide between:
First, if any of these TTV8s are a good pick for a daily driver, and so far as I have read, they're pretty stout, unlike BMW. I am wondering about the rest of the car though. I'd like to get one around 25k miles or less and put another 50k miles on it without headaches or rattles or leaks. Basically, just have a good car.

Then I'm trying to decide between a 2021/2022 with a warranty and keeping it stock or going back to 2019 or so and adding some light mods. How daily driver friendly are these things with mods? Is this something I dont want to mess with for a daily driver or is it fine?

Lastly, is there any difference between the GLC and GLE powertrain other than tuning? I'm not opposed to the GLE, but I dont as much care for the size and shape.

 

Personally, I'd go with a GLC. I have a modded and tuned GLC43 as my daily and I absolutely love it. I wish I would have bought a 63 because then I would have sold my GTR. If they were still making them I'd sell my GTR and my 43 and buy a GLC63, but instead I'm keeping the GTR and selling the GLC43 for a brand new GLE53. GLE is a great daily that feels like an SUV. The GLC in my opinion is the best of both worlds.

 

I got about 14K on my 2020 and it has been pretty solid. Great sounding V8 with plenty of possibilities of pushing it north of 700HP. I will be selling mines soon, not because of any issues but because I want to get back into a 2 door sports car.

 

What's your spec? Maybe I'll buy it.

 

I bought a CPO 2020 GLC63 with 12K miles October 3, 2022.
I feel buying CPO is a smart move with any high performance vehicle with high costs to repair.

My 2015 Porsche 911 Turbo S I bought CPO in October 2020, CPO just expired.
In those 2 years, it covered $4K+ in brakes pads and a $7K turbocharger replacement.

My GLC63 I am having some issues with.
First, how it got by CPO I have no idea, it came with two stripped lug nuts on the front passenger side wheel that were only on hand tight.
I discovered this when putting on my winter tires.
They reimbursed me for the 20 brand new one piece lugs I ordered and all sockets I needed to take off stripped and swollen lugs.

Second, the car keeps throwing a Check Engine light, the first time it cleared itself, but then came back on.
I dropped it off to the service department Thursday 11/17/2022, they finally got to it on Tuesday 11/22, they updated software and cleared the code. Then a tech took it home and back to work, no code.
I picked it up yesterday 11/23. 3 miles from the dealership the CEL came back on.
They are picking up the car from my house, I don't have tome to keep going up and back to the dealership.

Point being, get a CPO car for piece of mind.
I am not at the point of being able to tell you if the GLC63 is a good car yet, but I am slightly disappointed in the performance compared to what I have read about them.
Supposedly they are almost as fast as a Trackhawk, I owned a 2018 Trackhawk, imho, the Trackhawk is way faster. However, the Trackhawk would have been lemon lawed due to numerous CELs putting it in to limp mode, so I traded it.

Hopefully the GLC63 is not more of the same. The main difference being, the GLC63 is running fine even with the CEL.

The GLC63 sounds great, the main reason I bought it as a daily driver.

Hope this helps in your decision.

 

Here's all the details.. Cliff notes: Polar White w/ Red Pepper interior, Drivers Assistance Pkg, Parking Assistance Pkg, Midnight Pkg, CF Trim, CF Steering wheel, Pano Roof, HUD. Light mods w/ Modal Works intake & catted downpipes. Have not been tuned yet. Downpipes doesn't trigger CEL.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...f=true&sd=true

 

Caveat emptor. German cars generally, and MB very specifically, are two orders of magnitude less reliable than Japanese cars generally and Lexus very specifically. Please go into this with your eyes wide open.

Manufacturer’s warranty + third party extended warranty is a way to mitigate, but not eliminate, financial pain and aggravation of problems, should they occur.

“Stout” is the last word I would use to describe an MB V8. This M177 engine seems to be developing a reputation for rear main seal leaks due to oil/vapor separator failure. All prior MB V8s after the M113 have some nasty personality traits.

Having said all of this, the power and sound of a V8 would be fun. If money is no object and trips to the dealer for repairs are ok with you, go for it. Fuel, tire and brake cost will be high. If you hate cars as you wrote in the original post, consider the decision carefully.

 

I will say, MB service is being very cooperative in trying to resolve my issue.
After much research on this and other forums, it seems Thermostats sticking open is common and causes the p012800 code and CEL.
Basically, the car does not warm up to operating temp fast enough due to this and throws the code.

I spoke to my service advisor this morning and he is going to put a new Thermostat in on 12/13th, he said he has had to do this before on some AMGs.

Over a period of years this could possibly do some damage to the car, but not in the short term, Back in the day we used to throw 160 degree thermostats in out Vettes and Mustangs to keep them cool, never caused an issue.

 

Darn. Not quite what I'm after.

 

I have a 2021 that I daily and love. I’m approaching 20k miles and it has been solid and reliable. My only complaint is I went through the OEM Pirellis in about 9k miles and they were loud. Definitely fill up twice a week as well but I have a decent drive for work. I switched to Michelins and it has been much better. I run a stage 1 tune on mine and everything else is stock. The tune really wakes it up and it’s a lot of fun, definitely takes people by surprise when I take them for a ride. I had a 2010 GT-R back in the day making similar power and I have a lot more fun with this. That was a great car too though. I will be moving on from my GLC63 sometimes soon likely though. Twins on the way and I have an Escalade on order but I’m still a years wait out.

 

Man, that's unfortunate. I get it won't be anything like my GX, which just needs an annual oil change to get to 300k miles. However, I was hoping they were generally reliable and not headaches.

I can only imagine what a rear main seal costs to replace...

 

​​​​​​Read this site, there are some posts in the W213 AMG section. Something around $2,500 if I recall, but verify this. In the grand scheme of things that's reasonable for the magnitude of project. But it would be better that the rear main seal didn't fail in the first place, with a risk, however small, of a repeat failure if the oil/vapor separator fails again.

 

Can you help me with the nomenclature here?
$2500 isn't the end of the world. It sucks, a lot, but if that's the only high risk item, $2500 every 3 years wouldn't stop me.

Also, what is the oil separator- what does it separate?

 

Will MB let you extend the warranty if you buy it used (and it's still under warranty?) What does it typically cost?
Also, what does 3rd party warranty cost?

 

Agreed, $2500 is not a wallet breaker considering the value of the vehicle.

The vapor separator is a factory-designed catch can, to remove oil vapor from the breather/blowby system, to reduce carbon buildup on intake valves in direct injection engines. If the vapor separator gets plugged/blocked, crankcase pressure increases and it has to go somewhere. Evidently when this happens on the M177, the path of least resistance is the rear main crankshaft oil seal.

 

Mercedes has an ELW offering: https://www.mbusa.com/content/dam/mb...%2004.2019.pdf

@Highline-Autos offers Fidelity extended warranties, priced depending on time and mileage coverage.

 

If you're still in the market this summer, give me a ping. My lease is up on my 63 on 9/2/23 and given the spread between the end of lease buyout and Manheim values (not to mention retail values) it's going to be a no-brainer to flip it at the end. Mine's somewhat bare bones.....night package, 21" wheels, standard interior (dinamica), heated seats, track pace, wireless charging, lighted grille star and puddles. Put PS4+ A/S on around 10K miles. Never tracked. Will likely have ~28K miles by the time August rolls around.

 

Good to know it’s there (assuming reasonable price)

is the 5.5 in the GLE considered more reliable?

 

Fidelity warranties seem to be in the $5k - $6k range depending on the usual factors of vehicle age and time/mileage/deductible chosen.

The 5.5 M157 V8 in the GLE/GLS does not seem to be aging well. Experienced members on this site suggest to avoid this engine. Cylinder scoring is not uncommon at 100k miles or less, and is unrepairable, except for resleeving. Other repairable, and expensive, failures occur with this engine such as valve guides, timing chain-related, and turbo oil line failure. Oil in the engine harness, from failed cam position sensors and cam magnets, leading to misfires is known to happen with the M157/M278 and is a characteristic shared across other MB engines of the 2010s-early 2020s. Search the site for details, it's easy to find the information.

Least risky (but not no risk) option for a fast German SUV would be an X3M. It uses the S58 twin turbo inline 6 which does not seem to have major problems. Even Toyota, the hallmark of reliability, uses the S58 which suggests a level of reliability. The X5 V8 versions use either N63 or S63 4.4L engine which has been around for a while but is known for some problems. I know someone who has the X5 M50i and he likes it, and I have not heard that he has had engine problems.

Next in my view would be the EA839 2.9L V6 TT from Audi/Porsche in the SQ5, Macan GTS and Cayenne S. Third recommendation is the Audi/Porsche EA825 4.0L TT V8 in the RS6, SQ8, and Cayenne GTS and Turbo.

The BMW S58, and Audi/Porsche EA839 and EA825 engines seem relatively free of major problems, so far.

 

I had the Mercedes ELW on my wagon. Well worth it, I don't know that I'd own one of these cars without something as a backstop.

Note that dealers can mark these up quite substantially and they're not cheap to begin with. When I bought mine, my local dealer quoted me an insane price. If you look on these forums, you'll keep running across the name Jeff Jackson at MB Louisville (formerly Tafel Motors). He will sell one to you at a good price and the transaction is no muss no fuss, if you're in the market for an ELW I would definitely give him a shout.

 

I'm not an SUV guy, but the GLC essentially largely has the same powertrain as the C63, minus AWD. I've never heard of this oil seal issue. There are plenty of M177 engines out there with several years on their backs w/o issues. It's a solid engine for the most part. An occasional CEL due to coil packs can happen. I had a misfire on one cylinder recently and after a software update it hasn't occurred anymore. Still monitoring it, though. Three years into my '19 C63S coupe and it's still an awesome car.

The main complaints with the GLC are suspension comfort and the transmission. To your question about the difference between the GLC and GLE, one of the main differences is the transmission. The GLE also has the 48V system, which has been less than reliable. But as far as the transmission is concerned, the GLC 63 like the C 63 and most V8 AMGs has the MCT transmission. It stands for multi clutch transmission and the key difference is that it doesn't use a torque converter. Instead it uses a wet clutch similar to a dual clutch transmission. The GLE as do the 43 models have torque converters. Having a clutch as the coupling element between the transmission and engine can occasionally result in jolts and jerks because of the solid connection. I love the MCT. It's what I want in a performance car and none of its peculiarities are new to me as I drove manual transmissions for 20 years and had cars with dual clutch transmissions. I don't want a torque converter in a performance car, but if you search the forum you'll find people complaining about it. It seems in the GLC it's an additional issue due to 4Matic, but I love how my C63 drives.

As for the suspension, the GLC is heavy as are all SUVs, so the suspension is firmer to manage all that weight and the high center of gravity. This is a big reason I'm not into SUVs, especially performance SUVs. They are dynamically just wrong. The non-AMG SUVs bobble and sway around like a drunken sailor and the AMG variants have to have a very firm suspension to avoid all that, but that results in a less comfortable ride than a lower and lighter car. Comfort is always subjective to some extent, but I'd recommend you drive one first on the kinds of roads you typically drive on. I don't have any comfort complaints with my C63. I love the suspension and I even have the AMG Performance Seats, which are an other subject of complaints from some people, especially those who have never actually lived with them.

Just for context, I daily drive my C63, although I work from home and live in a highly walkable area, so I don't really drive during the week and walk or ride my bicycle instead, and I've done some very long road trips in it with driving up to 12 hours in one day. I did European Delivery with mine and drove 6000 miles across Europe in two months. Absolutely awesome grand tourer.

 

Well that's super disappointing.
The BMW TTV8s certainly have their fair share of problems. I was looking at them first, but ultimately avoided them. Also, BMW, outside of the engine, doesn't seem to hold together. The other big thing is that the X5 is too big. Aside from loving the car, a big perk of the GLC is that it is shorter than my GX, which is a tight fit in the garage while still having a without the "small SUV engine."

I feel like the X3M isn't enough car for the money, but I keep considering it. Plus, the AMG V8 exhaust note is ::chefkiss::

Macan is way too expensive for what it is. GTS with under 20k miles is $75-80k with only 375hp. Turbo is $85k and only 434hp. I want to keep it under $85k, and I can with those cars, but I'm going to trade in a bulletproof car for a smaller one and pay $40k on top of it to go from boring to "meh, not boring."

My real goal was to get one of the two AMGs and do a tune + maybe some mild upgrades.
I'll go test drive an X3M I guess. I'd probably just get that new. I can easily get what I want under $85k new, and that doesn't require an extended warranty.

Or I guess I could keep the Lexus and keep holding on to hope that I'll ever get a C8-Z06 :lol:

 

Cayenne Turbos of the current vintage (9Y0) with 4.0L TT V8 are dropping into the $80s now. Bide your time, the preowned market is softening noticeably.

finder.porsche.com

 

Very good to know. That's a big deal for me. I *hate* lazy transmissions and I love DCT type transmissions. Bummer they have issues.

As far as suspension/handling, I have that covered in the weekend car (Viper with a lot suspension work done) and race car (BRZ). The Viper is absolute road gripping monster, with almost no give and very nice suspension (fully tunable DSC suspension tuned by an actual pro suspension tuner). I want a true daily diver, but one that isn't like driving a lobotomy. It doesn't need to be a canyon carver. It will never see a moment of track time. So long as it doesn't body roll a ton in quick lane changes and can put a smile on my face when I merge, that's what I'm looking for.

 

This is true. I'm in absolutely no rush.
I'm just over the GX. I'm on my third GX in 2.5 years. First one, my house was being remodeled so I couldn't park in the garage. Drunk F250 driver flew down my street, not realizing it's a dead end, and SLAMMED into my parked car so hard, the SUV parked in front of it went 50ft down the road. The second one got stolen. I ended up having to buy a new car nearly overnight (work and stuff). Driving in the left lane on 4 lane highway. Car in the right lane rear ends the car in front of it. Car next to me freaks out, slams on brakes and spins into my passenger side door :facepalm:

I got an X3 as a loaner and decided I wanted something sportier and preferably smaller. So here I am.