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Take note of my weird settings, get the update then see what you think, I think you will be a LOT happier, [/QUOTE]
Your settings worked well for me, they took the edge off of this crummy system. Thanks!
Thanks @mikapen , I am sure your 3d system sounds great.
Apologies for any confusion, my post refers to the standard Burmester, which is the only available option on 21 model GLE's in Australia unfortunately.
Actually my 3D system went away when I turned my 450 back, and the new 53 is plain Burmester. I miss the 3D immensely.
BUT, I did receive the OTA update yesterday, which defeated all the adjustments I had previously made, and it sounded "more awful."
I referred to your post as a starting point and it's much improved - listenable, in fact.
My wife commented that it finally sounded good.
I'll go through my listening test files, and fine tune to my ears.
This is the first time I've found "Surround" mode to be acceptable, compared to "Pure." That's on several cars with surround.
Maybe I'll end up with Surround, and eat my words!
Anyway, thanks for an excellent post, showing your settings.
Okay, after all this discussion, what’s the bottom line for the setting on this basic sound system in terms where to set treble, bass plus the other settings for focus, pure, surround etc.
What seems to be the best settings to get the best all around sound performance?
Okay, after all this discussion, what’s the bottom line for the setting on this basic sound system in terms where to set treble, bass plus the other settings for focus, pure, surround etc.
What seems to be the best settings to get the best all around sound performance?
Toban
The settings I use and like are 10 treble, 1 mid, 1 bass, sound focus is on the back seats, fade/balance 0, surround on, speed sensitive off. This is the best I think it'll be when using the actual radio or thumb drive (with 31k songs) and probably wired Android auto or car play but haven't used either. Streaming/satellite will never compare.
Been working on the system again today and have an update.
I have noticed that the setting I specify above work the best with most modern mixes.
On older reference content like Welcome to the Pleasure dome, Seal, Def Leppard Hysteria (Trevor Horn, Mutt Lange) I need to up the bess significantly to about +8.
Most Modern mixes are Bass setting is between -2 and -4.Reference Camiel, Jamiroquai, Periphery, Devon Townsend, BT, SOS Balance 013
Mid and top and still work for me using above settings but only using Surround mode with Rear seat focus and -2 on the fader.
Bear in mind these setting have only worked since I got the software update.
I have created sone test tones at 24Bit 48K if anyone wants them.
Put them on your USB drive, play them back and use them as a good starting point for reference balance.
there are plenty of articles online explaining how to use test tones. These audio files are 1 minute in duration and using a -18 dB reference.
I have attached a shot of part of my studio, I am sure you can see the similarity to the night drive experience in our 167's
@wangbar thanks for all your work here. My control room was all knobs and VU meters - and analog.
However I have to disagree with some of your approaches, such as single tones. I prefer sweeps, and warble tones instead of solid frequencies. And although at first (as commented above) I accepted the Surround as almost "acceptable," it's not. Just too many artifacts and other things that, essentially, lead to listener fatigue. I suspect a lot of that is time coherence, which is pretty much abandoned to fool the ears into thinking that, since there's "more sound" it's better. Think Bose 901s.
Listening to your selected tracks, there is no reality there, so it's just a matter of making settings that you prefer, not matching a known sound.
But everybody's listening preferences are personal.
The only real solution is to select tracks that one is familiar with, from various sources that are high quality (no Bluetooth or Sirius please) and dial in the "equalizer" so it plays the sound you expect.
Your first post (after the update) was a closer starting point, at least for my library, experience and taste. I agree that the update opened up the sound to better performance.
It's never the measurements that make the cut - it's listening.
I Agree with your comments, and agree that we all have our own ears and tastes.
I also agree with your comments using surround mode, in most cases I would NEVER use it, but in the case of the Audio on the 167, to my ears, pure mode is anything but pure.
To my ears, the surround mode with focus at the rear and careful management of the bass is the only way to get any top end imaging. Management of bass dramatically affects imaging regardless of the focused mode.
On "all seat" focus everything goes out the window and phase is super obvious to me in surround mode.
I provided test tones as a baseline reference to detect "modes" in the car, for this purpose I greatly prefer this method over sweeps, IF, and only if, the car owner does not have access to Hig end room detection and calibration software such as Auddesy or GLM.
If the owner has access to this software and hardware, then I would go sweeps all day long, however if you had that software, it would arguably be a bigger problem as the control of the EQ in the Burmester system has little flexibility to address these modes.
With reference tones a user has time to try different burmester system setups and tune the system with the Burmester EQ whilst listening.
Unless there is a method of calibrating this system to sweeps that I am not aware of?
If you like I am happy, and have the ability to create some sweeps if anyone would like?
Just give me the start and end frequencies you want, time duration and if required any azimuth settings f(or attempted driver seat positioning) and I will knock it out fro you and put in a dropbox
My comments are just that, mine, and I provide them not as an authority on any other cars other than mine, I just provide some insights to help those who might be struggling to get a halfway decent sound out of the system, that's all.
At the end of the day, if the system was a good system , none of us would have any problem and no work would have to be undertaken in trying to get the system to sound good.
Been working on the system again today and have an update.
I have noticed that the setting I specify above work the best with most modern mixes.
On older reference content like Welcome to the Pleasure dome, Seal, Def Leppard Hysteria (Trevor Horn, Mutt Lange)
Hysteria really? I’m sorry I quit reading after that, True Def Leppard connoisseurs prefer High and Dry and Pyromania.
I apologise for making you quit reading my full post.
I want to thank you so much for your comment, for it allowed me the time to reflect on how much gratitude I have, that I can read the opinions of others, even if I don't agree with them, without quitting reading their entire post.
I also love, that I have finally found the person who represents the voices of True Def Leppard connoisseurs.
Congrats on your appointment.
I apologise for making you quit reading my full post.
I want to thank you so much for your comment, for it allowed me the time to reflect on how much gratitude I have, that I can read the opinions of others, even if I don't agree with them, without quitting reading their entire post.
I also love, that I have finally found the person who represents the voices of True Def Leppard connoisseurs.
Congrats on your appointment.
I think Joe Elliot sums it up best.
LOL — cause that is where Def Leppard connoisseurs keep their High and Dry and Pyromania cassette tapes, right next to AC/DC Black in Black and Foreigner 4!
@wangbar thanks for all your work here. My control room was all knobs and VU meters - and analog.
However I have to disagree with some of your approaches, such as single tones. I prefer sweeps, and warble tones instead of solid frequencies. And although at first (as commented above) I accepted the Surround as almost "acceptable," it's not. Just too many artifacts and other things that, essentially, lead to listener fatigue. I suspect a lot of that is time coherence, which is pretty much abandoned to fool the ears into thinking that, since there's "more sound" it's better. Think Bose 901s.
Listening to your selected tracks, there is no reality there, so it's just a matter of making settings that you prefer, not matching a known sound.
But everybody's listening preferences are personal.
The only real solution is to select tracks that one is familiar with, from various sources that are high quality (no Bluetooth or Sirius please) and dial in the "equalizer" so it plays the sound you expect.
Your first post (after the update) was a closer starting point, at least for my library, experience and taste. I agree that the update opened up the sound to better performance.
It's never the measurements that make the cut - it's listening.
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
As with any technical topic, there are true experts and those who really know a lot on the subject. I am neither. I just like listening to sound reproduction that is pleasing to my ears. In addition to my 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Wagon and 2020 S560 sedan, I have a 2018 Ford Transit Van. I bought it used, with 148,000 miles on the clock. It came from the factory with Wireless Apple CarPlay. The audio system is probably light years behind what any, current, MB premium system is SUPPOSED to be, but I actually ENJOY listening to music on it. I cannot listen to music on the HK system in my SL. I cannot listen to music in a new GLE. AND, I will not spend time futzing with all of the settings, to adjust the sound for different songs or different sources, each time I want to listen. This is absolutely unacceptable, especially in premium vehicles like the current GLE’s. Has MB lost their minds? Basic systems in current Toyota’s sound so much more pleasant. This is NUTS!
As with any technical topic, there are true experts and those who really know a lot on the subject. I am neither. I just like listening to sound reproduction that is pleasing to my ears. In addition to my 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Wagon and 2020 S560 sedan, I have a 2018 Ford Transit Van. I bought it used, with 148,000 miles on the clock. It came from the factory with Wireless Apple CarPlay. The audio system is probably light years behind what any, current, MB premium system is SUPPOSED to be, but I actually ENJOY listening to music on it. I cannot listen to music on the HK system in my SL. I cannot listen to music in a new GLE. AND, I will not spend time futzing with all of the settings, to adjust the sound for different songs or different sources, each time I want to listen. This is absolutely unacceptable, especially in premium vehicles like the current GLE’s. Has MB lost their minds? Basic systems in current Toyota’s sound so much more pleasant. This is NUTS!
I agree completely about having to adjust your settings for every tune you play. That's nonsense.
I am one of those Audiophiles who likes to dial in the sound, but the gyrations that Wangbar went through are not only time consuming, but also result in an unacceptable, tinny, boomy sound that will make you want to turn it off. The test tones he provided are fun, but useless in an automobile.
But IMO it's worth the time, just like you adjust your seating position and mirrors, to find the sound settings, listen to music that you like, and dial it in a bit. Again, just like your seat, mirrors, MBUX display, and others.
One upon a time there was one bass-treble knob, then it became one for bass, one for treble. Now there are three (virtual) knobs, but the concept is the same.
If you have the most recent over the air update (you should have, by now) everything is changed, and everything has been set to <0>. IMO it sounds worse than before and needs to have its knobs adjusted - once.
My recommendation is to go to the (somewhat hidden) sound settings, ignore the right panel with all the complicated options, find a song you like, and set the bass, mid and treble, listen to one more piece, then close that and set your mirrors.
If it's better, good. If not, that's probably all you can expect. I am disappointed with the plain Burmester too. It is NOT a premium system.
I feel the same way with the standard lighting, the right seat with no memory, and several other things that cost extra as upgrades, to get what I think should be standard on a premium auto, but that's what ALL the premium brands do these days.
It'll probably get worse, as everything is going to subscription, from Navigation to iOS, to Netflix, to MSFT Office. It's our Digital Future - it's getting less user-friendly and more expensive.
I agree completely about having to adjust your settings for every tune you play. That's nonsense.
I am one of those Audiophiles who likes to dial in the sound, but the gyrations that Wangbar went through are not only time consuming, but also result in an unacceptable, tinny, boomy sound that will make you want to turn it off. The test tones he provided are fun, but useless in an automobile.
But IMO it's worth the time, just like you adjust your seating position and mirrors, to find the sound settings, listen to music that you like, and dial it in a bit. Again, just like your seat, mirrors, MBUX display, and others.
One upon a time there was one bass-treble knob, then it became one for bass, one for treble. Now there are three (virtual) knobs, but the concept is the same.
If you have the most recent over the air update (you should have, by now) everything is changed, and everything has been set to <0>. IMO it sounds worse than before and needs to have its knobs adjusted - once.
My recommendation is to go to the (somewhat hidden) sound settings, ignore the right panel with all the complicated options, find a song you like, and set the bass, mid and treble, listen to one more piece, then close that and set your mirrors.
If it's better, good. If not, that's probably all you can expect. I am disappointed with the plain Burmester too. It is NOT a premium system.
I feel the same way with the standard lighting, the right seat with no memory, and several other things that cost extra as upgrades, to get what I think should be standard on a premium auto, but that's what ALL the premium brands do these days.
It'll probably get worse, as everything is going to subscription, from Navigation to iOS, to Netflix, to MSFT Office. It's our Digital Future - it's getting less user-friendly and more expensive.
Just adjust your bass and treble and move on.
Have a 2022 450. How would I check to see if my audio software is current?
I find the thumping under my left foot annoying as hell! They could have at least put the sub in the center console or something...
I've just had the same issue. had the vehicle 4 weeks and had to complain to Mercedes about the constant vibration in footwell. im hoping they can do something as the delership manager agreed its very unsettling.
I've turned it all down base wise etc but its a constant issue and really is poor considering the price of vehicle is high. would considering upgrading the speakers if I knew I could resolve the issue.
Last edited by adamwhitlock; 02-21-2022 at 04:01 PM.
I just took delivery of a ‘22 GLE350. Not quite sure how it was transported to So Ca so quickly as it was produced 2/22. Today is 2/22/22. I had listened to the Burmester in a 2021 GLE….wasn’t all too pleased. The 2022 Burmester must have been “gotten to,” because it sounds radically different. Wondering how it was modified? Incidentally, I clicked off on “surround.” Yes, it’s more full bodied…maybe more impressive. But voice clarity is noticeably improved with the surround off. Just one person’s opinion.
My biggest regret on our ordered 2021 53 was "saving" $5,200 by not getting the High End Burmester. It would have pushed me over the $100k point, and It was the biggest check I've ever written. "Penny Wise and Pound Foolish," as the saying goes.
We had it in our 2020 450, and it was wonderful.
I would go out to the car, relax in the massage seats and listen to the VIP seat focus. Time-aligned, solid, great sound. My Man Cave of sorts.
Now, I just don't listen to the plain Burmester - it's too painful.
Would I replace the car because of the radio? Doubtful, but when the warranty expires, I'll think twice about spending the money on a CPO, and keeping the car. Despite the pleasure I have in driving it.
I've just had the same issue. had the vehicle 4 weeks and had to complain to Mercedes about the constant vibration in footwell. im hoping they can do something as the delership manager agreed its very unsettling.
I've turned it all down base wise etc but its a constant issue and really is poor considering the price of vehicle is high. would considering upgrading the speakers if I knew I could resolve the issue.
Totally agree! I can not tolerant that a premium sound system generates such kind of annoying vibration, which contaminates the sound a lot.
Totally agree! I can not tolerant that a premium sound system generates such kind of annoying vibration, which contaminates the sound a lot.
Have you tried Adjusting the sound for each source? The system remembers the EQ and sound stage settings for each source (AM, FM, XM, CarPlay, etc.). It also remembers the sound settings for each profile…so if you have more than one profile, the EQ settings for each source will be unique to each profile. XM is low bandwidth, so music sounds crappy in my opinion. If you want a full sound field, get Spotify Premium and set the data stream setting to very high.
The problem is not so much with sound quality, it's that the woofer drives vibrations directly into the dead pedal. It is a buzzing sensation that feels like you've developed neuropathy in your left foot. I've never experienced this in any other vehicle even ones set up with massive amps and subwoofers.
The problem is not so much with sound quality, it's that the woofer drives vibrations directly into the dead pedal. It is a buzzing sensation that feels like you've developed neuropathy in your left foot. I've never experienced this in any other vehicle even ones set up with massive amps and subwoofers.
Ah, that’s because the subwoofers are built into the firewall. You still feel the low frequencies with the bass on the EQ I turned all the way down? You’re supposed to feel bass, since it’s low freq sound. Good systems don’t let it over power the rest of the frequencies and don’t resonate the interior the car. If your car is resonating/buzzing then something is wrong. I like the placement of the subwoofers because I can still hear and feel the low frequency sounds at 75 mph, and in mine it doesn't overpower the rest of the frequencies. That said, I listen to Spotify and use the very high bit rate. It makes system come alive…but to each their own. That said, XM stills sounds lousy due to the low bit rate.
08-06-2021, 04:11 PM
