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The “class” of the hitch (I, II, III, IV, V) is not the important number, the important hitch number(s) are the weight carry and weight distribution limits (along with tongue weight of course). These numbers show the hitch’s maximum weight limits for the specified hitch configuration (weight carry or weight distribution). If the weight carry limit for the GLE’s hitch is less than 7700lb, say 6000lb in the case of the Drawtite-Hitches hitch, it would not be safe to tow 7700lb. The weight distribution configuration (10,000lb limit for this example) may be required to tow the 7700lb with the GLE. I have not looked at the GLE’s hitch, these are just examples.
The 7700 lb towing capacity is simply one element in determining what can be towed safely. There are other component limits to consider. For example, Mikapen brought up the limits on single axle weights which could limit the max towing to below the 7700lb via the tongue weight. If you put a lot of “stuff” in the back of the GLE, that “stuff” and the tongue weight may exceed the rear axle limit of the GLE. Again, this could make towing 7700lb unsafe. You also have the GCWR, or gross combined weight rating. This includes the weight of the loaded vehicle and the loaded trailer. It is also required that the ball on the hitch be rated high enough to handle the trailer. Other considerations are mentioned in the manual.
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Attached is a picture of the hitch label on our GLE450. It's exactly the same as on a 350 loaner we had this week.
Notice the diagram showing the max distance from the ball to pin, and drop and rise specs.
As far as a GCWR, I don't think there is a Euro car that publishes that number.
I still go back to the Front and Rear GAWR (Gross axle weight ratings), because I use a WDH and transfer a significant amount of weight to the front axle (and simultaneously back to the trailer axles). A trip to the scales to weigh axle loads independently is important to make sure one end isn't overloaded after adjusting your WDH.
Another point: no matter what your hitch reads, your capacity is limited by the weakest link in your tow system. It may be the ball, the ball mount or stinger, an axle, or the payload (located on the driver's door pillar).
Attached is a picture of the hitch label on our GLE450. It's exactly the same as on a 350 loaner we had this week.
Notice the diagram showing the max distance from the ball to pin, and drop and rise specs.
As far as a GCWR, I don't think there is a Euro car that publishes that number.
I still go back to the Front and Rear GAWR (Gross axle weight ratings), because I use a WDH and transfer a significant amount of weight to the front axle (and simultaneously back to the trailer axles). A trip to the scales to weigh axle loads independently is important to make sure one end isn't overloaded after adjusting your WDH.
Another point: no matter what your hitch reads, your capacity is limited by the weakest link in your tow system. It may be the ball, the ball mount or stinger, an axle, or the payload (located on the driver's door pillar).
I agree, figuring out what you can safely tow is not as simple as looking at the door. I do not think I have ever seen where the Wt. Distr configuration had a lower capacity than the Wt. Carry configuration, I find that quite interesting (or maybe in error). I found the ACPS Automotive website (haven't really looked at it yet) and if I can find their customer support, I will send them an email to confirm these numbers and hopefully get an explanation.
I agree, figuring out what you can safely tow is not as simple as looking at the door. I do not think I have ever seen where the Wt. Distr configuration had a lower capacity than the Wt. Carry configuration, I find that quite interesting (or maybe in error). I found the ACPS Automotive website (haven't really looked at it yet) and if I can find their customer support, I will send them an email to confirm these numbers and hopefully get an explanation.
Yes the numbers certainly don't fit the norm. I'm guessing it's a Euro translation thing, or their unfamiliarity with WDH's in general. My TT is 6,000# so I'm within hitch specs AND GLE max.
Let us know if you get some insight.
Yes the numbers certainly don't fit the norm. I'm guessing it's a Euro translation thing, or their unfamiliarity with WDH's in general. My TT is 6,000# so I'm within hitch specs AND GLE max.
Let us know if you get some insight.
I filled out one of the "contact us" forms on their website but it is the weekend there so I don't expect to hear from them for a bit. I said their numbers where reversed from all the other hitches I have looked at and ask them to confirm the numbers. Also if the numbers are correct, why are they reversed. Should be interesting if/when they respond.
@mikapenAddressing the OP BACnMercedes thoughts about only towing at 80% of a Tow Vehicle's rating - that's a good rule of thumb for trucks made before the SAE J2807 towing standard (2010) which was finally adopted by all truck manufacturers in 2016. Prior to that, tow capacities were driven by the Ad departments, not engineering. Now the 80% rule is obsolete, too.
I remember reading about J2807 coming out to try and standardize most of the ratings. So since it came out in 2020 the GLE can handle every bit of 7700lbs and I should not worry about being right there at the limit? Or for instance in a 2020 1500 truck rated at 13300 lbs is ok to two the full amount? Just seems like a lot.
Thanks
@mikapenAddressing the OP BACnMercedes thoughts about only towing at 80% of a Tow Vehicle's rating - that's a good rule of thumb for trucks made before the SAE J2807 towing standard (2010) which was finally adopted by all truck manufacturers in 2016. Prior to that, tow capacities were driven by the Ad departments, not engineering. Now the 80% rule is obsolete, too.
I remember reading about J2807 coming out to try and standardize most of the ratings. So since it came out in 2020 the GLE can handle every bit of 7700lbs and I should not worry about being right there at the limit? Or for instance in a 2020 1500 truck rated at 13300 lbs is ok to two the full amount? Just seems like a lot.
Thanks
Yes, as regards to 2016 and newer half ton pickups, at least. But then it gets a bit murky.
European tow ratings are based on the ability to move a load, starting on a 12% grade, up to a certain speed, 40kph, I believe, in a certain amount of time.
So the SAE standard vs. the Euro standard is apples to oranges.
Also, the Euro convention for tongue weight was just a ratio, formerly 8% of trailer weight, then 10%, because they didn't have Weight Distributing Hitches. Now there is a UK manufacturer making WDH's so that may change. Also note that Euro trailers have the axle mounted midpoint on the trailer chassis, so low tongue weight. We prefer to see 10-15% on the tongue; I target 12% and stay within my hitch rating.
You also don't see "GCWR" (Gross Combined Weight Rating).
So that leaves us to look at more things and do some figurin'. First I look at the payload on the driver's door pillar (pickups, too, as some of them have less payload than our SUV's). And since I normally exceed that payload number by a couple hundred pounds, I load up/ hitch up and go the the scales to make sure I am not over on axle ratings (GAWRs). So far I have had a couple hundred pounds leeway at each end of the Mercedes.
J2807 has been updated a few times since it's first publication in 2010 - the latest is 2020, but it costs $83. to download, so I haven't read it. The word is that they have included more vehicles (SUV's and 1 Tons?) https://www.sae.org/standards/content/j2807_202002/
You can google SAE J2807 to see a few magazine takes on the standard.
@mikapenAddressing the OP BACnMercedes thoughts about only towing at 80% of a Tow Vehicle's rating - that's a good rule of thumb for trucks made before the SAE J2807 towing standard (2010) which was finally adopted by all truck manufacturers in 2016. Prior to that, tow capacities were driven by the Ad departments, not engineering. Now the 80% rule is obsolete, too.
I remember reading about J2807 coming out to try and standardize most of the ratings. So since it came out in 2020 the GLE can handle every bit of 7700lbs and I should not worry about being right there at the limit? Or for instance in a 2020 1500 truck rated at 13300 lbs is ok to two the full amount? Just seems like a lot.
Thanks
@BACnMercedes What does "right there at the limit" mean? What is the year and model of trailer you intend to pull?
@chassis I currently have a small Chaparral boat and when everything is loaded it is probably a close to 5200lbs. We currently want a bigger boat so I am really paying attention to tow limits. I also have a hard time feeling comfortable towing “right at the limit” because I know how my current GLE handles towing my current boat.
But when I compare the current GLE to other SUVs like the new Escalade, Tahoe, Expedition, and others with more curb weight, (usually) larger motors, and longer wheelbases the GLE tows a lot.
@chassis I currently have a small Chaparral boat and when everything is loaded it is probably a close to 5200lbs. We currently want a bigger boat so I am really paying attention to tow limits. I also have a hard time feeling comfortable towing “right at the limit” because I know how my current GLE handles towing my current boat.
But when I compare the current GLE to other SUVs like the new Escalade, Tahoe, Expedition, and others with more curb weight, (usually) larger motors, and longer wheelbases the GLE tows a lot.
Thanks @BACnMercedes . Are you saying 5200lbs is right there at the limit?
@chassis Of course not according to the manufacturers towing capacity but I will say, with a 3600lb boat, probably about 1000lb trailer, 55 gallons of gas, then all the toys and stuff in the boat, you definitely “feel” it behind the car. I don’t have the air suspension and it squats the rear a little bit too. Acceleration is not bad but stopping the boat is sometimes challenging under quick stops. (This is not counting the 3 people in the car with their bags, coolers, and stuff.). I usually try to avoid interstates or at least keep it about 65mph at the most. The car just feels like the boat pushes it around too much.
Last edited by BACnMercedes; Oct 11, 2020 at 06:32 PM.
@chassis Of course not according to the manufacturers towing capacity but I will say, with a 3600lb boat, probably about 1000lb trailer, 55 gallons of gas, then all the toys and stuff in the boat, you definitely “feel” it behind the car. I don’t have the air suspension and it squats the rear a little bit too. Acceleration is not bad but stopping the boat is sometimes challenging under quick stops. (This is not counting the 3 people in the car with their bags, coolers, and stuff.). I usually try to avoid interstates or at least keep it about 65mph at the most. The car just feels like the boat pushes it around too much.
@BACnMercedes are you using a WDH with your boat?
I am surprised that you feel that the boat has charge of your GLE400. I tow a 6,000#, 27' travel trailer (old ML350 Diesel), and it's much more stable than pickups I have towed with, including 3/4 and 1 Ton. Especially in braking or emergency situations, because of modern suspensions and chassis rigidity, plus braking power.
Your comment about "squat" makes me think you don't have enough weight transfer.
Maybe it's just a matter of setup. Is your tongue weight 10- 15% of the total trailer-ed weight? Are you getting enough weight transfer? Are your trailer brakes set correctly? Tire pressures?
On another thread, you talked about the creaking of your W166, and I agree - the V167 seems a lot more stout. I am hoping that our V167 (GLE450) is better at towing than our old 166 - it sure feels better and stronger.
BTW and IMO, Vans and full-bodied body-on-frame SUVs are significantly stronger than pickups and better at towing, if you are looking at one of them.
@mikapen I honestly have not changed the way the boat sits on the trailer since it was set up originally for my when I bought it. I had a Tahoe at the time and it really sagged that thing but it towed and handled it very well. Expect for the fact that the headlights were pointed at the stars. I remember having it weighed one time soon after that and everything at the time looked normal but that was years ago, After then I went though 3 Toyota Tundras with it (very quickly and they hardly knew the boat was back there) and into the current GLE and I never thought to re-weigh it. When I say “squat”, I mean very little. It might set the car down in the rear about 2-3 inches. But I can see it when looking at the tire clearance. As for trailer brakes, they are drum surge brakes on one axle, so there is not too much of adjusting I can do.
The reason I’m looking at towing questions and handling so much is that every year we go to the boat show and “dream“ about a newer boat. We always chicken out because most of them are in the 6k lb range (+/-) and towing that much with the GLE seems as though it would be a problem. But not If I throw the 80% rule out the window.
@mikapen I honestly have not changed the way the boat sits on the trailer since it was set up originally for my when I bought it. I had a Tahoe at the time and it really sagged that thing but it towed and handled it very well. Expect for the fact that the headlights were pointed at the stars. I remember having it weighed one time soon after that and everything at the time looked normal but that was years ago, After then I went though 3 Toyota Tundras with it (very quickly and they hardly knew the boat was back there) and into the current GLE and I never thought to re-weigh it. When I say “squat”, I mean very little. It might set the car down in the rear about 2-3 inches. But I can see it when looking at the tire clearance. As for trailer brakes, they are drum surge brakes on one axle, so there is not too much of adjusting I can do.
The reason I’m looking at towing questions and handling so much is that every year we go to the boat show and “dream“ about a newer boat. We always chicken out because most of them are in the 6k lb range (+/-) and towing that much with the GLE seems as though it would be a problem. But not If I throw the 80% rule out the window.
I’ve never seen an 80% rule. I just remember when I started driving and towing (about 30 years ago) that as a rule of thumb and safety, 80% was what we went by. I honestly don’t know why though other than every time I towed near a vehicles‘ maximum capacity the handling was horrible. Maybe I’m just overly careful. Or expect more?
@mikapen I honestly have not changed the way the boat sits on the trailer since it was set up originally for my when I bought it. I had a Tahoe at the time and it really sagged that thing but it towed and handled it very well. Expect for the fact that the headlights were pointed at the stars. I remember having it weighed one time soon after that and everything at the time looked normal but that was years ago, After then I went though 3 Toyota Tundras with it (very quickly and they hardly knew the boat was back there) and into the current GLE and I never thought to re-weigh it. When I say “squat”, I mean very little. It might set the car down in the rear about 2-3 inches. But I can see it when looking at the tire clearance. As for trailer brakes, they are drum surge brakes on one axle, so there is not too much of adjusting I can do.
The reason I’m looking at towing questions and handling so much is that every year we go to the boat show and “dream“ about a newer boat. We always chicken out because most of them are in the 6k lb range (+/-) and towing that much with the GLE seems as though it would be a problem. But not If I throw the 80% rule out the window.
The old 80% rule was around before the SAE J2807 rules were established in 2010, and all half ton pickup manufacturers finally adopted it in 2016. Before that, advertising departments were making wild claims about tow capacity, and that lead to the 80% rule - the thought was that that was closer to the actual capacity than "advertised."
After the adoption of J2807. the old 80% rule bercame obsolete, although some Luddites still cling to it. It's worth being "thrown out the window."
M-B SUV's are fully capable of towing their rated capacity, as long as you don't exceed the rated axle capacities, which will probably require a WDH as you approach limits.
And electric trailer brakes. Watch the tongue weight.
There are only towing capacities, GAWR, GVWR and GCWR. That’s all.
To achieve GCW with a drawbar pull requires a WD hitch and electric trailer brakes. No matter if we are talking about a Honda Ridgeline or Ford F-350 DRW. Or a Mercedes GLE.
Fifth wheel and gooseneck towing are not part of this discussion.
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