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There is also an additional exclusion for electric drive vehicles. Our 48V Mild Hybrid should be between uncovered normal 12V battery and full Electric/Hybrid battery.6.14. ELECTRIC-DRIVE VEHICLES: Maintenance, service, and replacements of/to the Vehicle’s lithium ion battery are not covered by this Agreement.
I presume our only course of action when the time comes is to petition an early or reliability failure like the other owners experienced during normal warranty period. Lets see what is ELW for the new EQS.
Most automakers have an 8 to 10-year or 100,000 miles warranty period on their electric vehicle batteries. This is because federal regulation in the U.S. mandates that electric car batteries be covered for a minimum of eight years. But, that is only if the vehicle can be driven on electric power alone.
Yes, we all know "batteries" are not covered. They are operating under the assumption this means 12V and are telling me as such. This assumption can only harm me, so I'm pushing for an answer as hard as possible.
When I called the Mercedes Care earlier today, they told me they only deal with the factory issued warranty, not ELW. So back to the dealer I call and get ahold of my salesman. I'm hoping to have an answer tomorrow.
The primary issue I have is, how can they sell me a warranty without being able to tell me what's covered? Disingenuous, deceitful, misleading. Had I known there was a 48V battery in the car I would have asked.
If they told you what is not covered they would sell fewer ELW's. It's easier to blind you with what is covered. The salesman would also have to become a subject expert on what they are selling which is not going to happen. They expect you to read the policy and extract from it what is not covered which no one short of a certified mechanic can decipher. They leave it up to you to read the what is not covered.
This is a good example of buyer beware. When it comes to answering tough questions, you have to do your homework. Best thing I found with any policies is to go right to Exclusions and you will find out pretty quick. Guess the sales staff aren’t interested.
It’s the old story, read over the sales brochure online and you will know more than they do.
This is a good example of buyer beware. When it comes to answering tough questions, you have to do your homework. Best thing I found with any policies is to go right to Exclusions and you will find out pretty quick. Guess the sales staff aren’t interested.
It’s the old story, read over the sales brochure online and you will know more than they do.
Toban
The sales brochure at the bottom says, "Please see your dealer for complete terms, including coverage exclusions and warranty information". The dealer so far is not providing this information. The brochure also says the ELW is an extension of the original warranty with minor exceptions, and lists "electrical systems" as a covered item. This leads me to believe the 48V battery is covered.
Based on GregW message above, can we position without the 48V battery, the car can't be driven. Its like an electric vehicle and not a hybrid vehicle for the 80000-1000000 miles electric vehicle battery warranty?
The ELW can be easily cancelled/refund if we believe its not worth to cover the vehicle minus the 48V battery since the ELW has not started yet.10. CANCELLATION
10.1. You may cancel this Agreement at any time by submitting to the Selling Dealer or any Authorized Dealer proof of ownership for the Vehicle and a completed written Cancellation Form, which is available from the Selling Dealer or any Authorized Dealer.
10.2. If this Agreement is cancelled prior to the date coverage begins, or within the first sixty (60) days after coverage begins, and no claims have been filed, the entire Agreement price will be refunded by the Selling Dealer.
I think you will be fine now. What I heard from my dealer in March, MB was not shipping any of the old batteries anymore.
I think we are over the bad batch of batteries but I still think it's a good ideas for battery maintenance to put a CTEK charger under the hood every month or so just to make sure the charges are where they should be. Just a suggestion. There's a lot of things on these cars working in the background especially on many short trips or sitting for long periods.
Anyone heard when new batteries will be ready? My new 2021 CLS 53 died 2 weeks after delivery, and has been couple weeks since then and they said battery is backordered with no ETA...I am in Canada.
Anyone heard when new batteries will be ready? My new 2021 CLS 53 died 2 weeks after delivery, and has been couple weeks since then and they said battery is backordered with no ETA...I am in Canada.
Anyone heard when new batteries will be ready? My new 2021 CLS 53 died 2 weeks after delivery, and has been couple weeks since then and they said battery is backordered with no ETA...I am in Canada.
My car died 2 weeks after delivery as well. I just had my THIRD 48V battery installed today since my car was delivered on April 19 and am praying that the third battery is the charm. What concerns me is that the part number (000-982-68-14) os the same as my previous battery that died. My dealer assured me that the new battery came directly from the Mercedes parts warehouse (as opposed to one that another dealer had lying around, which I think was the case with my second battery), so I'm crossing my fingers that this time it will be different.
I think you will be fine now. What I heard from my dealer in March, MB was not shipping any of the old batteries anymore.
I think we are over the bad batch of batteries but I still think it's a good ideas for battery maintenance to put a CTEK charger under the hood every month or so just to make sure the charges are where they should be. Just a suggestion. There's a lot of things on these cars working in the background especially on many short trips or sitting for long periods.
Toban
I’m not a battery expert, but I’ve been using Lithium batteries for a couple decades and have heard that long-term storage can damage them unless they’re stored at 30-50% of charge. From the below website (emphasis mine): Lithium batteries should be kept at around 40-50% State of Charge (SoC) to be ready for immediate use – this is approximately 3.8 Volts per cell – while tests have suggested that if this battery type is kept fully charged the recoverable capacity is reduced over time. The voltage of each cell should not fall below 2 volts as at this point the anode starts dissolving causing copper shunts to form which will cause an irreversible loss of capacity. Similarly lithium based batteries can be damaged by over charging which causes the cathode to decompose.
Of course, we can’t control the “state of charge” but storing a car and not driving it might not be a good idea. I reached out to MB USA and they said to activate the “standby” mode. I suspect it only reduces the load on the AGM starter battery and might even be the opposite of what you want (you want there to be a load on the Lithium batteries). And they didn’t confirm my original question, specifically regarding how to prevent damage to the Lithium batteries while in storage, so I think they don’t understand or just went off an automated script. I’ll try to follow up with them.
Here’s the image that MB USA sent explaining how to activate standby mode:
Last edited by Kevin Triplett; 06-20-2021 at 09:54 AM.
Reason: Add information
I’m not a battery expert, but I’ve been using Lithium batteries for a couple decades and have heard that long-term storage can damage them unless they’re stored at 30-50% of charge. From the below website (emphasis mine): Lithium batteries should be kept at around 40-50% State of Charge (SoC) to be ready for immediate use – this is approximately 3.8 Volts per cell – while tests have suggested that if this battery type is kept fully charged the recoverable capacity is reduced over time. The voltage of each cell should not fall below 2 volts as at this point the anode starts dissolving causing copper shunts to form which will cause an irreversible loss of capacity. Similarly lithium based batteries can be damaged by over charging which causes the cathode to decompose.
Of course, we can’t control the “state of charge” but storing a car and not driving it might not be a good idea. I reached out to MB USA and they said to activate the “standby” mode. I suspect it only reduces the load on the AGM starter battery and might even be the opposite of what you want (you want there to be a load on the Lithium batteries). And they didn’t confirm my original question, specifically regarding how to prevent damage to the Lithium batteries while in storage, so I think they don’t understand or just went off an automated script. I’ll try to follow up with them.
Here’s the image that MB USA sent explaining how to activate standby mode:
I do not have this setting available on my GLS580 which has the 48V system. I asked the dealer about how to do it. They never heard of it and could not give me an answer if I should be able to access it with my model.
Standby wasn’t available on my GLE 450 and not on my GLE 53 either. IMO, this battery concern (paranoia) is getting out of control. These cars have a huge total battery capacity compared to most 12 volts in the past. They will not run down in a week or two either…I left my GLE 450 for over 2 weeks no problem. Once I went several months during COVID with only short trips shopping.
The battery failure is circuit not capacity related so take a deep breath and just drive your car. If you need to leave it for weeks then use a battery tender.
The battery failure is circuit not capacity related so take a deep breath and just drive your car. If you need to leave it for weeks then use a battery tender.
Thank you for your concern. However, my concern is damage to the lithium battery when leaving it at 100% SOC for much longer than two weeks at a time. Think 6-9 months. The cathode can start to lose it’s metal atoms to the chemistry of the battery in some battery designs.
Using this figure, and the dark current of the car, I can calculate how long the 48V battery can power the car down to around 34% SOC. At that point, I can have someone put the trickle charger back on. At least, that’s my theory.
hmm - 900Wh is like 18Ah @48V - that’s a pretty small battery lol.
Last edited by Kevin Triplett; 06-28-2021 at 04:03 PM.
Using this figure, and the dark current of the car, I can calculate how long the 48V battery can power the car down to around 34% SOC. At that point, I can have someone put the trickle charger back on. At least, that’s my theory.
hmm - 900Wh is like 18Ah @48V - that’s a pretty small battery lol.
It is small. It's not a hybrid, and its purpose is to drive auxiliary equipment such as AC compressor, power steering, a short-term boost to the drive train, and spinning up the turbo/supercharger in the AMG models. Short-term, as in Two Seconds.
I'm not sure what you mean by "dark current of the car," or why you chose 34% SOC. Are you talking about electron transfer, or standby current loss?
Without knowing the algorithms of the BMS, it's all a guessing game. I can't even find out if there's cold temperature accommodation in the BMS.
Thank you for your concern. However, my concern is damage to the lithium battery when leaving it at 100% SOC for much longer than two weeks at a time. Think 6-9 months. The cathode can start to lose it’s metal atoms to the chemistry of the battery in some battery designs.
My guess is that this Forum won’t provide any answers about cathode degradation…time will tell.
You might be making assumptions that aren’t true for a Mercedes Lithium/AGM setup. I run my Lithium tool batteries to zero frequently and they seem to last. I also leave one on a charger 24/7-year round at my vacation home. It never occurred to me that leaving one at 100% SOC would cause a failure. My Home Depot Ryobi lithium drill battery has been sitting on a charger much of the last 7 or 8 years. I can’t think that a Ryobi is anything but a low end battery.
The Lithium will not stay at 100% SOC since they normally lose power over time naturally plus there is the parasitic loss from the 12 volt AGM that will draw some from the 48 lithium. 6-9 months is a long time for any battery to sit. Are you thinking that a battery tender might cause a problem? We have a 4 year warranty that should cover a battery failure. I’ve had an AGM replaced under warranty at about 15 months and recently a 48 Lithium at 5 months, both covered by warranty.
Edit-In 2019 there were GLE 450’s built in February and parked in storage lots for 6-10 months. Mercedes kept building them with missing parts until they had over 10,000+ units stored in the US & thousands more in Germany. There was no way to go around charging them since many were bumper to bumper stored on lots. This might be an “acid test” that letting them sit isn’t going to be a problem.
Here’s a pic of one storage lot referenced in my post above. Not all had Lithium batteries since this was a mix of cars. There has only been one post of a 2019 GLE lithium battery failure that I remember….most were Oct-Dec 2020 builds. I’m sure there have been more but the early build 48’s seemed to be of good quality.
It is small. It's not a hybrid, and its purpose is to drive auxiliary equipment such as AC compressor, power steering, a short-term boost to the drive train, and spinning up the turbo/supercharger in the AMG models. Short-term, as in Two Seconds.
I'm not sure what you mean by "dark current of the car," or why you chose 34% SOC. Are you talking about electron transfer, or standby current loss?
Without knowing the algorithms of the BMS, it's all a guessing game. I can't even find out if there's cold temperature accommodation in the BMS.
Thank you, a small battery makes sense but this was the first time that it hit home just how small it is.
Dark current is the current draw with the car off. 34% is an arbitrary storage SOC for RC LiPo batteries. Anywhere around 30-50% is recommended.
Specifically, storage with battery tender, yes.
Last edited by Kevin Triplett; 06-29-2021 at 06:57 AM.
From what I can find the Mercedes batteries appear to have protection from running down while not in use. The GLE 450 specs include this description for the 12 volt AGM-70-Amp/Hr 600CCA Maintenance-Free Battery w/Run Down Protection. This would be a relay to stop or limit Parasitic draw & things accidentally left on like the headlights The lithium is listed at a slightly higher capacity for AMG models-“Lithium Ion Traction Battery 1 kWh Capacity”. I couldn’t find anything specific about the Mercedes Lithium battery run down protection but here’s one thing I found-Protected Lithium-Ion (Li-ion) batteries have a small electronic circuit integrated into the cell packaging. This circuit protects the battery against common dangers, such as overcharge, over discharge, short circuit/over current, and temperature.
My 2021 GLE 450 has the same problem. It got towed to the dealership. The 48 V battery has to be replaced. They are ordering the part now. No ETA when it can be fixed. Anyone has experience any further problems after having the battery replaced?
06-09-2021, 07:27 PM
They would sell less policies
