toban

I have a 2021 GLE 450 on order since last November. Went into production January 19/21. Am suppose to receive it the end of March or beginning of April. This is fine with me.

Have been talking to the dealer about these battery issues. Service Mgr has told me the 2020 models they sold last year have had no battery issues up to this morning.

He was doing some research for me on these issues and was awaiting a reply. Had a call this morning from him to inform me they had 2 come in at the end of last week with dead 48 volt batteries. He was shocked to have seen this. No battery replacement until March 31.

So, he got the shop foremen in and we all had a conference call about this. Forman said it's not the battery that's dead, it's the contacts in the battery that quit accepting a charge from the ISG generator. So, even if you put a battery charger on the posts under the hood, the charge would not be accepted by the 48 volt battery because of the contacts. As you drive, instead of the battery being charged , the charge is going out of the battery and not being replenished. Wouldn't you see this on the instrument panel where the charge is shown to be charging? Don't know answer to that. The owner drove 2 hours to his cottage, went out in the morning and car wouldn't start. He has owned the car for 6 months. Had it hauled back on a flat bed 2 hours back to dealer.

Now, the interesting thing is, apparently Mercedes are aware of this contact problem and apparently there is an updated battery with different contacts. My impression is, this statement is still up for interpretation at this point but he said he can tell which battery was put into the car by the VIN number and production date on his computer. I asked him whether my car which is somewhere, had the NEW contact 48 volt battery put in on the assembly line. He will get back to me.
They are checking on this battery issue with their regional office for answers. He thought I already had my car when I told him I didn't want the car unless it had the new battery with new contacts. I told him I have not taken possession of the car yet. He said to me, we will check this out for sure and go from there. He said if I had the car now, the only way he could swap out the battery was unless there was a problem or there was a bulletin as such.
There is a new item number for the new battery that is in the Mercedes system I was told.

Thought I's send this through for owners update.

Toban

Was Ferrari Guy

My 53AMG is scheduled to be built second decade of this month. Can I assume they are now putting the updated battery contacts in cars now being built???

toban

That’s what the dealer and myself are trying to find out what batteries they are putting in the 2021 models. I wouldn’t assume anything at this point unfortunately. You would think if they know about the issue they wouldn’t put the defective batteries back on a new year model but who knows.
Check with your dealer like I did and see what they say.

Toban

mikapen

@toban I have couple of questions, as you go through your research.
1. Are they sure it's the contacts IN the battery? Could it be a poor ground contact, since there have been reports of painted-over ground contacts elsewhere in the chassis?
2. Could it be the contacts either in the 12vDC to 48vDC converter? Or the 48vDC to 12vDC converter?
and
D. If you can get a photo of a 48v battery, I think we'd all appreciate it.

It sounds like they are on this, especially since the Owner experienced the situation. Thanks and good luck. (My 53 should be off the line now. 1st Decade Feb, and I have a VIN.)

toban

Thanks for your reply.
You know, I’m 2 hours plus from the dealer. I’m not going to be able to get to the owners car unfortunately in order to take pictures etc. You bring up some good points.
My question is though, why have Mercedes issued an upgrade battery to the original one? Why would they do this if they didn’t realize they had a problem with the other battery? Just wondering.
The service manager didn’t specify with the foreman what contacts were involved etc. If there are contacts in the battery it could be that or I’m sure he would have mentioned the actual cable post contacts were the problem.
I’m sorry But I haven’t been able to get more specified answers as even the dealer is hunting.
I’ll make a note of your painted ground points and ask them.
When a person is spending this much on a car, you really don’t want to have this issue with possibly being stalled in the middle of no where.

Toban

toban

Mikapen

Have a question. Wouldn’t you think if there were painted grounds etc, on the chassis this problem would be immediate instead of 6 months?

You are right, something is restricting the flow of electricity to the 48 volt battery.

Keep in touch.

Toban

mikapen

Yes, you'd think it would show up earlier, but then, there have been gremlins here and there with this new system that are attributed to bad / painted ground points.
Other than that, most reports I have seen are associated with MBUX or a bad batch of batteries.
So maybe there is headway and they have narrowed the "bad batch" down to the Contact issue you are hearing about. Headway would be a good thing.

Just to clarify, the current flow is ISG (inline starter generator) -> 48v battery -> 48v accessories (water pump, power steering, suspension, etc.).
The 48v battery feeds the "legacy" 12v devices (windows, seats etc.) via the 48v -> 12v converter -> 12v battery, and the charge point under the hood goes to 12v battery -> 12v -> 48v converter -> 48v battery.
There is also Regenerative Braking, but the current generated by that is through the same ISG -> 48v battery.
You probably knew this, but to refresh a new reader of this thread.

In short, there are plenty of "contacts" in the system. I always thought of a "contact" as a relay-driven connection, rather than a fixed connection like a battery terminal. It would be interesting to see what current (!) jargon calls a contact.

Williemv

I am also concerned about this issue, my car is scheduled for next week. I’m hoping that they’re installing the updated battery on the assembly line.

toban

Call the dealer. They can check by VIN number what battery is in the car since the new upgraded one has a part number.

Toban

Williemv

I will, because I’m to receive my vin number this week.

toban

Having meeting with Service Mgr and shop Forman tomorrow morning. Been told there seems to be a contact problem inside the battery. A new part number had been produced for the new upgraded battery. My car produced in January had the old battery installed.
dealer going to change out when car arrives,

Toban

Ninja_Ryan

Very interesting... I took delivery of my GLE 450 in June 2019 and thankfully no problems with the battery/Volt

jtjbt20x

They actually found painted grounds earlier, there's a bulletin on it here somewhere that I posted.

toban

Had my meeting. They said the battery has internal contact points. When you hit the starter button, the contacts are suppose to close and send the 48 volts to the starter. What is happening is when the button is pushed, the contacts are staying open and not allowing the power to flow to the starter. Once the contacts are closed the electrical flow of electricity is confirmed. The battery is not dead but the contact points make the battery dead. When you stop the car with the push button, the contact points open and stop the engine.
They are trying to determine what difference there is now with the new part number battery.
This seems to be an intermittent problem, some contacts work, some don’t.
Not a great answer I know.
Will get back when I hear more.

Toban

mikapen

@toban thanks for the update on your Continuing Saga.
It sounds like your shop is doing a decent job of ferreting out this issue.
Not all of this makes sense to me, but this is a Brave New World.

TexAg91

Sounds like a bad electric relay switch... that is built into the battery, vice being a simple plugin module.

mbslk350

My thoughts exactly. Back in the day, we "fixed" sticky relays with a sharp tap from hammer. Not sure if that can be an emergency maneuver when the relay is embedded in the battery module though. Either way, I'm following this thread with great interest because my GLS450 is due to be built this week. Hopefully with the updated 48V battery.

fabbrisd1

I sincerely appreciate the earnest effort and intention - however the "direction" forward might be best served with a "adjustment".

1. Yes - there have been select "rare" issues with the 48V System in GLE450's + the very more extensive # of GLS450's.

2. The "updated" part# for the 48V battery is not due to "old bad battery" versus "new good battery" - the "updated part#" is simply the "new" number for a updated battery. As with ANY component - Mercedes "often" updates a component, and when they do a "updated" part # is issued.

3. ALL 48V batteries in ALL new gen 450's has a individual Serial # that is recorded at the factory for that VIN# - and ANY replacement of the 48V battery has to be pre-approved by MBUSA and will ONLY be approved after the Dealer "opens a Case" - which requires the Tech to write/up the case for review/approval by the Shop foreman - and when foreman approves the case is uploaded to MBUSA - and MBUSA w/Germany review the case and request specific diagnostic protocols back to the Tech - Tech reports back the results - and MBUSA/Germany may ask additional diagnostics (can go up to 2-3 rounds) - and when all possible causes have been dissected - then MBUSA will approve the necessary work/and/or - that includes replacement 48V battery. if required.

4. 48V system issues have been "rare" - by what I have seen have been 1%-2% - and a large part of the process at this point from MBUSA/Germany side is for them to receive thorough problem/diagnostic data on their side - because YES MBUSA/Germany are very focused on assessing EVERY problem that comes up to identify and correct going forward.

"Oh" and the Dealer that said "we will make sure you will have the "Updated Battery" in your new delivery - is mis-representing both the nature of this "battery update" - again - this is NOT a case of "original bad battery" and "new good battery"

By rare - I had a out-of-state" customer come in for his 30K service on his 48V GLS450 - our Techs saw that at 20K service at his home dealer there was mention of checking electrical - we checked with customer who just before that 20K service had a Highway Shutdown" at speed that recovered on restarting their GLS on the road - at that 20K service the home dealer blew off their report - did NOT open a case - and my guy's would NEVER have a customer that had a problem like that drive off without getting to the bottom of it. That dealer - and frankly a OK one - that Tech did not want to get tied up on that. My guys are now into Day 5 with MBUSA/Germany - because we will NEVER let a customer drive off with a "not known" in their MB - ever !

And when my Tech's are satisfied it's "right" - then will will ship their GLS 280 miles to their home and have that truck pickup their loaner from us fo9r the 280 mile truck back.

On this Customer's reported "Highway Shutdown Issue" their's is the 6th report in the entire US - like I say - rare problems - not epidemic.

Ron.s

Your posts are always very helpful but I’m not sure I agree with your conclusion that 1-2% of battery failures is “rare”. Only Mercedes knows the true % so I assume you are just guessing.
A failure of a 12 Volt battery isn’t as troublesome as a failure of the 48 volt battery that leaves you helplessly stranded. For some this could even be life threatening if it happened in winter in a remote area. There are geographic regions in Canada and the US that might take 5-6 hours before roadside assistance would reach you. A failure near home is just an inconvenience.
How many owners feel comfortable leaving town with even 1% odds that your car might not make it to your destination?

mikapen

Gosh, I used to do it all the time. I drove British sports cars.
1% would have been a gift!

toban

I appreciate all the inputs here but my dealer did NOT promise me a new updated battery from the factory. They sold 15 GLE 450's in 2020 and have 2 right now sitting in their shop from 48 volt battery issues not starting the car. The survey on MBworld awhile back about this problem showed a 12% problem from owners. Owners are having to drive a loaner until the updated batteries arrive. All I told the dealer was, my car is arriving sometime in April, could you put in the updated battery the same as you are doing for the other 2 cars if Mercedes have updated this problem as being fixed and addressed. The dealer is bringing in 4 new updated batteries and were told they would be arriving the first week of April.
I not doubt think the shop Forman who I have got to know pretty well will have to do his thing with Mercedes about these batteries re reports etc. I was told Mercedes do not want the dealers to open up these batteries for safety reasons. He has already had many meetings with his contacts at Mercedes and reports will need to be made. I was told Mercedes regional office is very aware of the issues all over and hopefully they have addressed this with the new updated battery. The dealer is trying to find out what the difference is between the old and new battery.

It's a very valid point Ron made and it's my main concern, what happens if you are in the town of rubber boot somewhere when the car won't start?

We will see how this all rolls out with my dealer. They have been very proactive on this and I thank them for that.

By the way, I'm in Canada.
Again, thanks for all your inputs on this subject.

Toban

user 7208224

99% would be a good bet in Vegas but 1% says 1 out of 100 times you leave home you could get stranded. If you leave home just once a day, that's over three times a year. Not my idea of a good bet.

toban

So, what’s the answer for a buyer/owner?

The answer in my mind is to fix the battery contacts system that start the car.
The other option is for people not buy the GLE series except for the 350, the new E series, CLS, S series and whatever series have this ISG system.
Mercedes is adding more models using this system. It’s a problem.
An owner has to feel confident in the vehicle they are purchasing. All manufacturer’s have issues but haven’t heard of any where the car may not start even with a boost.
I want my car that is arriving in April.
What is a person to do?
One person commented when Mercedes creates a new part number it means they have changed a component etc. Since there is a new part number issued now for this 48 volt battery, hopefully Mercedes had changed the starting contact mechanism in the battery.

Toban

chassis

One option is to read your state’s lemon law and understand what is required of you to use it.

Another option is to write a letter to the dealer and MBUSA indicating that you have formally started the lemon process.

The above is at your choice. You can also bear with the dealer and MBUSA patiently and see what, if anything, comes of it.

SamSantos

Brand new 2021 GLE 450 drove 700 miles and now it refuses to start! Looks like MB needs to do a recall!