Ron.s

I posted this in another place but it should have it’s own thread since it outlines the Comprehensive plan to transition to all EV’s by 2030. It’s over an hour long but there are relevant disclosures throughout. I heard direct marketing mentioned once. They are big on sustainability at different levels. A Recycling battery plant is planned. Lots of information but light on specific vehicle changes/dates. Eight Gigafactories. They project that ICE & BEV cost become close to equal by 2030.

mikapen

^^^^^^ thanks for posting. It's informative.
Mercedes is hedging their "fully electric by...." statements with "as the markets accommodate."
Which may mean they will produce ICE for decades, but probably with little further development. My guess is that they will be building them much longer than their statements imply, and will eventually have to do more ICE development than announced. Maybe it's wishful thinking.

TexAg91

I do hope they also focus on PHEV development, not just BEVs

Ron.s

Me too! If they stay with the current plan any Mercedes BEV will be gone by 2030. I think that there will be resistance by some significant percentage of the public that could change plans and projections. Toyota, reportedly, is actively Lobbying Congress and other Groups to slow things down. I have to believe that even Mercedes has customers that live in Apartments and will face infrastructure issues for BEV’s.

nsoltz

Toyota put its eggs in the Hydrogen Cell basket so now, with no EV on the horizon, they are trying to rein in electrification. As I've said on other threads. my wife drives a 2021 Rav4 PHEV and we find it a phenomenal vehicle getting up to 50 miles on a charge and 40+ mpg hybrid. With, I hate to say it, less fussy electronics than the GLE and better rear pedestrian/cross traffic warning. We have a 50 amp charging station in preparation for any future electrification. But without massive development of charging infrastructure, EV's are just not going to be realistic, particularly around here in NYC. Most parking lots in NYC have a charger or two but that's hardly enough capacity. When the GLE lease is up in Oct 2023, I'll most likely replace it with EV and hope the EQE SUV will be available by then.

TexAg91

With 50 miles of electric range and 40 mpg when the battery is depleted, how often do you put gas in your RAV4? How much has that vehicle reduced your wife’s fuel consumption?

nsoltz

Only have had the RTav4 since March and still have just under 3/4 tank of fuel. Prior to this she drove a 2018 Kia Niro PlugIn and put about 20K miles on it. Filled up 3 times. The Kia kept throwing a check engine light and was in the shop several times, once for 28 days. Carvana gave us a better price than lemon law, so we didn't hassle with a buy back. In retrospect, a nice small vehicle with good electronics, many missing features, but a very weak dealer network.

user 7208224

Maybe Mercedes will follow through with this.
https://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-l...rcedes/3021121

mikapen

Well, how about that. First funny skit from SNL in decades.

challer

Charging is going to be the big challenge and everyone now seems to understand that. And then there is the source for that electricity. Windmills and solar are not going to get us there so we are looking at nukes. Then we have the rare earths issues. Toyota, it does turn out, owns most of the IP on hybrid vehicles, which the rest of the world has to license. Hydrogen is not an energy source - we don't mine it or drill for it. We use electricity to make hydrogen; it's a means of energy transport and storage, same as electricity/batteries. It looks clean because of the tailpipe but you have to look at the total fuel cycle.

BlueYonder

95% of US hydrogen production is via natural gas reformation. It takes more energy to produce hydrogen than the energy gained from that hydrogen.

mikapen

Very true about analyzing the energy cycle. Nukes don't make the cut on that front, or payback on the original investment to build the plant.
Hydrogen as an energy storage technology may have a place in transportation yet. Mercedes has had a fleet of H2 vehicles in service since the early 90's.

Porsche, then Mercedes, actually own the basic hybrid IP, going back the the Lohner-Porsche of 1899. The first AWD hybrid debuted at the Paris Exhibition in 1900. It was an 80mph race winner, driven by Porsche.
The new motor controllers that Toyota developed were deemed not to violate the Porsche IP, because it was software based, not a rheostat.

challer

I won't argue nukes with you here, although I've worked in that industry for 30 some years, including the new Gen4. It'll just get political and I don't need that. But I will say, they are quite profitable although you can find and exception. And I acknowledge that EVs have been around since day 1. I've also lead the design teams for two hybrid power trains, one Class 8 trucks and one passenger. Nothing from Porsche 1900 is under patent and thus Toyota never had issues with that. I was in knee deep with the IP. Patents last 17 years in the US.

user 7208224

In 2019 Toyota offered 24,000 hybrid patents to other automakers license free thru 2030. The Toyota hybrid drive is an amazing piece of engineering.

I support your views on nuclear power. It will be a long hard uphill battle to overcome perception. Some of the proudest years of my career were spent at Three Mile Island.