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Agree, it’s like comparing against the dumbest kid in class. Isn’t MB supposed to be the best or nothing?
It’s further evidence of how far down the drain MB has swirled, that supporters are comparing vs the dregs of the industry.
“At least MB is not that bad!”
It is not so much that MB is swirling down the drain, it is that Hyundai and its luxury brand Genesis have been getting their act together. One of my first cars was a Hyundai Excel, and it was by far the worst car I ever owned. But a funny thing happened. Hyundai kept at it, and now Genesis has one of the best reliability records in the industry and Hyundai has the best standard warranty of any automaker. I was cross shopping the Genesis GV80 and Mercedes GLE 450. There is a lot to like about each of them. I went with the GLE in large part (though there were other things that nudged the GLE ahead of the GV80) because you have to buy and service Genesis vehicles from Hyundai dealerships, and at least in the U.S. they are consistently ranked as having the worst sales and service experiences in the industry.
It is not so much that MB is swirling down the drain, it is that Hyundai and its luxury brand Genesis have been getting their act together. One of my first cars was a Hyundai Excel, and it was by far the worst car I ever owned. But a funny thing happened. Hyundai kept at it, and now Genesis has one of the best reliability records in the industry and Hyundai has the best standard warranty of any automaker. I was cross shopping the Genesis GV80 and Mercedes GLE 450. There is a lot to like about each of them. I went with the GLE in large part (though there were other things that nudged the GLE ahead of the GV80) because you have to buy and service Genesis vehicles from Hyundai dealerships, and at least in the U.S. they are consistently ranked as having the worst sales and service experiences in the industry.
I think it's a combination of one brand dropping and the other ascending, they meet in the middle. Since Mercedes started mass producing entry and mid level crap, the quality has suffered. Being everything to everyone while trying to retain a luxury image doesn't work. Either build the best cars in the world or don't, you can't hit or miss your way to the best or nothing. Resting on your laurels and leveraging your brand's legacy will only go so far. However, there are enough brand ****** out there that don't care, the tolerance for mediocracy is mind boggling.
The fact that we need to compare to a Hyundai says it all. Competitors? I guess after all the GLE's issues they are now.
The reason I mentioned Hyundai is that you and many others of your ilk continually praise Hyundai and it's reliability record.
Hyundai copies styling, and they do that very well. But their reliability sucks, as evidenced by having to recall 200% of their sales, as well as fires.
They are not a serious competitor, unless you like their paint colors. But don't park it inside if you value your garage and home.
If you look at recalls, technical bulletins, and other forums, Mercedes seems to be producing the most reliable vehicles of the covid era.
...... One of my first cars was a Hyundai Excel, and it was by far the worst car I ever owned. But a funny thing happened. Hyundai kept at it, and now Genesis has one of the best reliability records in the industry......
Hardly.
Check NHTSA for recalls and complaints.
You'll see a really long list for recent Hundai's, and a very short one for Mercedes, especially the 167.
Mercedes has improved over the last three years, and Hyundai has declined. As often happens with unreliable brands, they have increased their warranty to make you think they are reliable. But it's only a power train warranty.
Ignore Consumers Reports and JD Powers because they still use 2018 and earlier models.
Could it be that Genesis rep for quality is due to a very few models and the required additional focus on quality to try to become an established luxury brand? They aren’t any more a serious competitor to Mercedes than Lexus unless all you consider is the cabin. Lack of Styling, optional equipment, engine selection, engine power/efficiency, handling, etc…there is no comparison. They have a place competing with the Mercedes entry level vehicles but that’s about it, IMO.
In general, I've been scared to buy anything since the start of the pandemic because of what I felt would be worse workmanship under the workers' stress of COVID-19 lockdowns as well as the long-term cognitive and physical effects of COVID if you had more than a mild case (which many people have). That was just my own concern, not trying to start any political or medical debates.
I was even scared to buy replacement consumable parts for my 190E 16-valve (which is my favorite car of all time). But when I had to order in new genuine MB brake pads and an oil filter for my car, I still ended up getting good products even though they were made in 2021. Guess I've been lucky, but I've heard stories to the contrary from neighbors and friends.
I'm hoping this "luck" continues as I look to get myself into a GLE350 later this year as a new daily. I previously never thought I'd come to a Mercedes showroom to buy one of their new products, and would "only drive the classics". But if every automaker has trended downwards in long-term reliability anyways (even Toyota/Lexus), and most new car buyers don't keep their cars beyond their warranty periods, why not get something nice for those couple of years?
It'll also be the first time I'm going back into a new car showroom since 2016... I expect this to be a drawn-out experience finding a dealership that won't coerce me into a markup. Don't mind waiting a bit to order in a build to my liking if it comes to that.
The reason I mentioned Hyundai is that you and many others of your ilk continually praise Hyundai and it's reliability record.
Hyundai copies styling, and they do that very well. But their reliability sucks, as evidenced by having to recall 200% of their sales, as well as fires.
They are not a serious competitor, unless you like their paint colors. But don't park it inside if you value your garage and home.
If you look at recalls, technical bulletins, and other forums, Mercedes seems to be producing the most reliable vehicles of the covid era.
100% lie. Find a post of mine in which I "praise" Hyundai, the most I've ever stated was they are doing a great job for what they are. I would never buy a Hyundai or a GLE for that matter. To me they are basically the same class. As for reliability, I don't see much difference with the GLE.
Could it be that Genesis rep for quality is due to a very few models and the required additional focus on quality to try to become an established luxury brand? They aren’t any more a serious competitor to Mercedes than Lexus unless all you consider is the cabin. Lack of Styling, optional equipment, engine selection, engine power/efficiency, handling, etc…there is no comparison. They have a place competing with the Mercedes entry level vehicles but that’s about it, IMO.
They compete in both entry and mid-level. Mercedes excels and pulls away in the high line, G, S, SL and AMG specific models. Anything less is splitting hairs.
They compete in both entry and mid-level. Mercedes excels and pulls away in the high line, G, S, SL and AMG specific models. Anything less is splitting hairs.
In your opinion…I won’t argue about opinions. Opinions don’t mean much unless they come from some personal knowledge and experience.
Since you haven’t owned a Genesis and probably never will, then I doubt you’ve ever even driven one.
Then it begs the question why you spend so much time on these threads when you have such a low opinion of the GLE (that you probably haven’t driven either) and will never buy…your own words. You never seem to offer any helpful advice to others either.
The reason I mentioned Hyundai is that you and many others of your ilk continually praise Hyundai and it's reliability record.
Hyundai copies styling, and they do that very well. But their reliability sucks, as evidenced by having to recall 200% of their sales, as well as fires.
They are not a serious competitor, unless you like their paint colors. But don't park it inside if you value your garage and home.
If you look at recalls, technical bulletins, and other forums, Mercedes seems to be producing the most reliable vehicles of the covid era.
Mercedes has their fires too with 800,000 cars recalled in Europe....I guess you haven't seen this:
From MB: "In the meantime the affected vehicle should be driven in a particularly prudent manner and usage reduced to the bare minimum,"
So your argument about MB recalls being less severe than others is wrong. The CLA/GLA/GLB are nothing more than a Hyundai with a star anyways. And that's exactly what MB wanted them to be, so they could complete for sales to the unwashed masses with brands like Hyundai.
Last edited by E55Greasemonkey; Feb 7, 2022 at 08:14 PM.
In your opinion…I won’t argue about opinions. Opinions don’t mean much unless they come from some personal knowledge and experience.
Since you haven’t owned a Genesis and probably never will, then I doubt you’ve ever even driven one.
Then it begs the question why you spend so much time on these threads when you have such a low opinion of the GLE (that you probably haven’t driven either) and will never buy…your own words. You never seem to offer any helpful advice to others either.
2021 GLS450 2020 GLE350 2005 BMW 325ci Convertible
Other than an issue with a fan noise in the dashboard (resolved by the dealer) I am very happy with my X167 and V167. Note I didn't say one-sixty-lemon. The vast majority of owners are not on here, and probably are not even aware of the issues being haggled over here. That is unless some lawyer dropped a letter to them offering to sue for something they've never experienced.
As far as the "competition", I am currenly driving a Genesis G70 while traveling. While the tech is nice, and on-par/slightly-above/slightly-behind MB, I can tell you the ride is not anywhere as nice as my previous 4 cars (C, E, GLE, GLS). And that, above all, is what is important to me. I ended up at MB becuase I compared a 3 and an C six years ago. While the BMW drive was fine by itself, when driven back-to-back, the C was much more my style. Maybe not yours, but certainly mine.
From MB: "In the meantime the affected vehicle should be driven in a particularly prudent manner and usage reduced to the bare minimum,"
So your argument about MB recalls being less severe than others is wrong. The CLA/GLA/GLB are nothing more than a Hyundai with a star anyways. And that's exactly what MB wanted them to be, so they could complete for sales to the unwashed masses with brands like Hyundai.
I'm familiar with that Bild Click Bait headline. As it turns out, only 17 cars were affected. It was a new tool or robotic attachment that M-B installed in the assembly process, but it didn't supply the torque needed for a good ground at the fusebox. They went back to the old tool and have specified a new one. Supplier problems again, but not 200% of one year's sales, like Hyundai.
There was also a painted-over ground that seemed to affect my 2020 450, but it was easily fixed. Until that Bulletin was issued, my problems were "various." Fixed now, but it was frustrating and didn't inspire confidence until it was identified.
So, seems like the Tech Bulletins and recalls are better on the 167 than the 166's. So far. We'll see as time passes.
I'm familiar with that Bild Click Bait headline. As it turns out, only 17 cars were affected. It was a new tool or robotic attachment that M-B installed in the assembly process, but it didn't supply the torque needed for a good ground at the fusebox. They went back to the old tool and have specified a new one. Supplier problems again, but not 200% of one year's sales, like Hyundai.
You're either confused or in denial. There are in fact 800,000 MB's being recalled in Europe for a leaking electric coolant pump that can short and cause a fire. Not 17 cars. Not a tool or robot. Not a bild click bait headline, whatever that is.
You're either confused or in denial. There are in fact 800,000 MB's being recalled in Europe for a leaking electric coolant pump that can short and cause a fire. Not 17 cars. Not a tool or robot. Not a bild click bait headline, whatever that is.
Yes, there is concern about the coolant pump leaking BY THE MEDIA, but according to Dealer notifications it's about the same number as the fuse block grounding. A short run of cars, not 800,000.
We may find more info as the dust settles and the facts are more sorted, but so far it's "Click Bait." Just as it was with the "800,000 cars recalled" for the 17 cars completed with the bad tool/attachment. Source check is in order.
"Click Bait" means it's a headline designed to get you to click on it, usually with a preposterous claim. It's the Modern Way that misinformation is spread.
"Bild" is a German magazine that's known for their Click Baiting, although they "usually" sort it out in a month or so.
Yes, but this recall of 800,000 cars only applies to 2 specific diesel engines that are installed but not sold in the U.S.
I don't think Mercedes has even sold 800,000 diesels with electric coolant pumps in the last several years.
What are your sources? Let us Click on them too!
It seems that the Media is stuck on 800,000, even though the last 800,000 recalls turned out to be 17 cars. No retraction, just a new affliction.
I don't think Mercedes has even sold 800,000 diesels with electric coolant pumps in the last several years.
What are your sources? Let us Click on them too!
It seems that the Media is stuck on 800,000, even though the last 800,000 recalls turned out to be 17 cars. No retraction, just a new affliction.
I hear ya, but I'm running into a dead-end with this particular European recall as I only have access to U.S. recalls. Even a Google search for a European recall website similar to our own NHTSA has proved futile. What I did find was that 800k number were diesels sold worldwide, not just Europe. I'll try some more internet searching tonight, maybe with Google.de
Here you go, 848517 vehicles worldwide. I won't be posting any more in this thread as we are drifting off topic from the original question. However, my answer to that question is "it's too soon to tell."
Last edited by E55Greasemonkey; Feb 9, 2022 at 06:43 PM.
@E55Greasemonkey I agree. I'm curious about these reports, and I've spent too much time researching them! I have also lost my link to the 17 cars I was talking about above.
I'll keep my eyes open. And now, all my search engines will be notifying me of anything with diesel in it. 🙁
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