Frenetic

I tried calling MBUSA but I didn’t feel like waiting on hold that long. I finally got through to my service advisor and this is what he said. He “thinks” those batteries are NOT covered by any standalone warranty, although he doesn’t know for sure because they’ve never had to submit an out-of-warranty claim to MBUSA yet. I also brought up the parts and service warranty and he said that battery section doesn’t cover EV or 48 Volt batteries as it was meant only for MB’s 12-Volt batteries.

I’ll try MBUSA again later.

PandaSPUR

I can't think of anything we buy these days that doesnt come with some sort of warranty...

Frenetic

Well, most wear items don’t have warranties unless it is explicitly stated as such, like batteries or brake pads.

In any case, I’m really curious now. I’m wondering if this is an oversight on MB’s part to not add additional language or make clearer declarations. Here’s my take: since it is a wear item, if it is not explicitly stated that is it covered then it’s probably not covered.

mikapen

Here's the parts warranty, attached. Batteries are listed toward the bottom.

Frenetic

So I confirmed with MBUSA, this battery warranty in this declaration does not apply to EV and high-voltage batteries. She told me there is no warranty for these batteries outside of the original manufacturer’s warranty.

Wolfman

I guess I am missing the point of the later conversation.

If MB covers the batteries of 4 years that would be great. They will likely cover a lot of 48V battery related issues given the experienced problems. Wish we would have the same with 12V lithium batteries in the AMG. Cost the same or more than the 48V but no such special treatment and that battery only has a 2 year warranty...

hutch300

I am not even a year old but I bought this 450 with the intention to keep it. I would consider not outside of 4 years if problems pop up. I got the 7 yr extended warranty and was verbally told this was covered. Sadly, that seems untrue.

Zeusmotorworks

You found something a $tealership told you to be untrue?

BlueYonder

What does the 2022 Service and maintenance manual say? The 2020 version shows warranty coverage for the 48v battery of 7/70,000 for autos, including the GLE450, sold in the CARB states.

https://www.mbusa.com/content/dam/mb...e_Warranty.pdf

TexAg91

There is the answer, on page 44 of new vehicle warranty manual Blue Yonder provided a hyperlink for above;




As I thought (and as required by US regulation), the 48 V battery is part of the emissions system and is covered by an eight year 80,000 mile warranty.

This warranty does not apply to the 12 V battery.

It looks like people have been confusing the two battery warranties. That said I have a GLE 350, so doesn’t apply to me at all.

Frenetic

The whole issue I was trying to point out with these cars—and the peanut gallery in full force trying to throw me under the bus—is that these little but very expensive 48-Volt batteries have no warranties after the manufacturer’s warranty, unlike a 12-Volt battery. Simply put, after 70 or 80k miles, you’re SOL. If it fails and you pay $2.5k to replace it and it fails again within six months to a year, you’re SOL.

A 12-Volt battery, under the same scenario, would have some prorated satisfaction, not to mention it would only cost a few hundred bucks. Considering the many reports of 48-volt battery failures (which is probably a leading contributor to the failing grade at consumer reports), owning these cars long-term is an absolute no go. Don’t do it. Don’t buy an extended warranty because it doesn’t cover wear items and don’t pass go. Get rid of it.

TexAg91

I see what you’re saying. However, the key take away is the 48V hybrid system on the GLE (to include the 48V battery and controlling hardware) is covered for 8 years or 80,000 under the emission warranty. It does not depend on being the original owner of the car, it would still be valid for subsequent owners if it fails at less than 8 years or 80000 miles. Yes, if after 8 years or 80k miles it fails your are SOL. The warranty on a 48V replacement battery will likely depend on if it’s a rebuild or is new…but you can bet it won’t be for another 8 years or 80000 miles…it will be significantly less.

That’s how I see it.

Wolfman

So this appears to be all about nothing? Other than 48V battery owners are much better off than 12V batteries owners?

Remember that MB 12V lithium batteries costs the same.
It can also be stated if a person replaces a battery out of warranty via 3rd party, these batteries are cheaper and usually carry a longer warranty.
Even if one buys a 48v battery for an out of warranty vehicle it will be covered by a warranty. The only reason this is a new scenario is due to the fact that no such cases exist with new tech.

Frenetic

Yes, but I would imagine a lot of buyers of this car—especially those that buy an extended warranty—are looking to own this thing behind that mark. I almost purchased an extended warranty myself with the same intent, but I’m glad I didn’t.

What Mercedes SHOULD do is warranty that battery along the same lines as the 12-Volt. In fact, MB is behind in battery warranties in general. Other manufacturers are starting to update their warranties to reflect the changing electrified environment with specific declarations on EV and hybrid batteries. Mercedes should do the same.

Frenetic

Wolfman, I asked MBUSA and they told me flat out that EV and 48-Volt batteries have NO warranties outside of the manufacturer’s warranty. Zero, zilch, nada. And there is no third-party 48-volt battery lol.

Wolfman

I would expect this to be incorrect but to be fair, this is a non-existing scenario and as such there have likely not been any communications about it.
It will be difficult to imagine that MB will sell any battery without any product warranty. They are not doing it today either.

Frenetic

If you have some additional insider insight that we can actually take to the proverbial bank and redeem an out-of-warranty 48-volt or EV battery failure, why don’t you share it? Where is it written?

TexAg91

Are you concerned if the 48V battery fails, let’s pick an arbitrary number for an example, say at 12 months and 15,000 miles and is replaced under the emissions warranty, and then the replacement battery fails 55 months and 65,000 miles, that you will be out the cost of a new 48volt battery?

That’s not how an emissions warranties work. Mercedes has to guarantee the components of the emissions system (which the 48v battery is) for 8 years or 80,000 miles. So in this example, Mercedes would have to replace it with another 48V battery at no cost. Is that the concern, or is it more what happens after 8 years and 80,000 miles?

TexAg91

Whoever you spoke with is flat out wrong. The 48V battery is covered under the emissions warranty, as an emissions system component. I would consider that as part of the manufacture’s warranty, but perhaps it is semantics…the manufacturer’s warranty is technically the 4 years/50k bumper to bumper warranty.

Regardless, see pages 32-44 of the hyperlink in post #59.

Some highlights:

Page 36: "NOTE: The Emission Performance Warranty is required by Federal Law, and is effective only to the extent required by that law. To the extent the underlying law is suspended or amended, this Warranty is automatically altered in the same manner, without further notice."

Page 37: "For the remainder of the 8 years or 80,000 miles the authorized Mercedes-Benz Dealership will correct only those deficiencies directly related to the specified components in the attached list which have been installed in or on the vehicle for the sole or primary purpose of reducing vehicle emissions and that were not in general use prior to Model Year 1968"

Pag 41: "EXCEPT FOR THE EMISSION CONTROL WARRANTY, THIS WARRANTY AND THE LIMITED WARRANTY FOR NEW MERCEDES-BENZ VEHICLES ARE EXPRESSLY IN LIEU OF ALL OTHER WARRANTIES AND REPRESENTATION, EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, IMPLIED WARRANTY OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, AND OF ALL OTHER OBLIGATIONS OR LIABILITIES ON THE PART OF THE WARRANTOR. DAIMLER AG, MERCEDES-BENZ USA, LLC, MERCEDES-BENZ U.S. INTERNATIONAL, INC, MERCEDES-BENZ RESEARCH & DEVELOPMENT NORTH AMERICA, INC. OR THE SELLING AUTHORIZED MERCEDES-BENZ DEALERSHIP NEITHER ASSUME NOR AUTHORIZE ANY OTHER PERSON TO ASSUME FOR THEM ANY OTHER LIABILITY IN CONNECTION WITH SUCH EMISSION SYSTEMS.

The lists shown on (▹ Pages 42 and 83 [[i]for plug-in hybrids]) set forth the emission related components which may be covered by the emissions performance warranty."

Page 44: continuation of emission related components which may be covered by the emissions performance warranty:
X. Hybrid System

• 48V Battery
• Battery Pack Control Module
• Battery Pack Control Module Software
• Battery Charger Hardware
• Battery Charger Software
• DC Converter Hardware
• DC Converter Software
• Electric Motor Control Module
• Electric Motor Control Module Software

Bottomline, it does not matter what you were verbally told on the phone, what matters is what is in writing in the warranty book and what is required under Federal Law (in the US anyway).

TexAg91

Frenetic, I think I finally got your concern, after re-reading your posts...I'll leave the posts above because they are still valid...even though they don't address your concern.

You are saying that you would like to be able to buy an extended warranty that will cover the 48V battery beyond 8 years or 80,000 miles. Mercedes' extended warranty does not cover the 48V battery. If that is the case, then I would imagine you could purchase a 3rd party warranty that would cover the hybrid components. Endurance, Car Sheild, etc. That said, it would probably cost as much as a 48V battery (which I understand it around $1600 + labor), but if you want to keep it for the long term it might be worth looking into for peace of mind.

mikapen

If the 48 volt battery is bought from and installed by a Mercedes dealer, then it has a 24 month 100% replacement guarantee, including labor.

That seems like reasonable coverage to me.
It would be quite a while before you'd have to do that, with all the other coverage on the battery.

Thanks @TexAg91 for your research. It answers the basic question I've had - Is the 48v battery considered 'emissions related'? It is.

Frenetic

Mikapen you’re wrong.

The battery is only covered by the original manufacturer’s warranty to 80k miles. There is no standalone warranty per MBUSA. If you buy that battery after the 80k warranty period and it fails you’re out of luck. There is no 24-month warranty period. That was the entire point of me calling around. I specifically asked about the 24-month parts and service warranty and they all said wear items are NOT covered unless it is specifically mentioned. I brought up the battery section in that warranty declaration and MBUSA said that it does not cover the 48-Volt or EV battery. It only covers the 12-Volt battery.

If you have proof showing otherwise, please share it. I’m just going by what I’ve been told by my dealer and MBUSA.

Ron.s

As usual…you are stating your opinion backed up by phone calls trying to prove your previous brash statement …about something that won’t ever affect you. You are on record that you intend to sell your car before the warranty expires. The fact is that the battery is not yet packaged for retail sales and that won’t occur until closer to the time that the OEM warranty expires. No one has any facts about a future battery warranty.

You also seem to ignore inconvenient truths. There will almost certainly be some type of a warranty on replacement 48 volt batteries. Every new auto part has some warranty even many rebuilt components have them. There is also US legislation (Magnussen-Moss) that covers express and implied warranty for products sold in the US. You can keep stating your opinion repeatedly but repetition doesn’t make it any more factual.

TexAg91

Frenetic, it is semantics. A replacement 48 Volt battery is covered by "a minimum of a 12 month warranty." See the link below for an actual Mercedes 48 Volt battery sold online for a GLE 450…the minimum warranty is there in writing.

In this case it is the manufacturer of the battery who warranties it against material defects for 12 months. I doubt Mercedes built the battery, it is subcontracted out to a supplier to manufacture (The design of the 48 Volt battery is likely owned by Mercedes)

If you bought it at a Mercedes dealership parts department where the replacement work is done, I suspect they’d warranty it for 24 months…but to verify you would need to speak with a parts department employee and give them the 48 Volt battery part number so they can look it up and verify the “material defect” warranty they offer when purchased and installed at that dealership.


https://mbparts.mbusa.com/oem-parts/...ery-0009826714

mikapen

I shared it in post #54.
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