Consumer Reports Ranks MB Dead Last in Reliability (11/15/2022)
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I haven't researched the condensation issue yet, but 10 months in and 14k I've never seen this on my 2022. I have the multi beam led. I'll be looking more often for any signs of it ever occurring.
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1991 190E 2.3
FYI, people who aren't automotive engineers are not experts in evaluating the design and construction of an automobile. Most Consumer Reports readers are not automotive engineers and they'll never know more about evaluating cars than automotive engineers.
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1991 190E 2.3
It’s not normal. MB is fully responsible for design choices that they and their suppliers make, and for manufacturing, logistics and other snafus that they and their suppliers make. There is no escaping culpability for MB in this scenario. It’s on them. And it’s normal, sadly. Read the EQS section, too bad for the brand and the owners.
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1991 190E 2.3
So sorry but electrical engineers aren't automotive engineers. To say that people who aren't automotive engineers have the same level of expertise to be able to evaluate the design, contruction and build quality of a vehicle is like saying people who never went to medical or nursing school know more about healthcare than the doctors and nurses. They don't and never will.
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1991 190E 2.3
THE ENGINEER AND THE MANAGER
A man is flying in a hot air balloon and realizes that he is lost. He reduces height and spots a man down below. He lowers the balloon further and shouts, "Excuse me. Can you help me? I promised a friend I would meet him half an hour ago, but I don't know where I am."
The man below says, "Yes. You are in a hot air balloon, hovering approximately 30 feet above this field. You are between 40 and 42 degrees north latitude, and between 58 and 60 degrees west longitude.
"You must be an engineer" says the balloonist.
"I am", replies the man. "How did you know?"
"Well..." says the balloonist. "Everything you told me was technically correct, but I have no idea what to make of your information and the fact is I am still lost."
The man below says, "You must be a Manager"
"I am", replies the balloonist. "How did you know?"
"Well..." says the man. "You don't know where you are, or where you are going. You made a promise which you have no idea how to keep, and you expect me to solve your problem. The fact is you are in the exact same position you were in before we met but now it is somehow
my fault."
A man is flying in a hot air balloon and realizes that he is lost. He reduces height and spots a man down below. He lowers the balloon further and shouts, "Excuse me. Can you help me? I promised a friend I would meet him half an hour ago, but I don't know where I am."
The man below says, "Yes. You are in a hot air balloon, hovering approximately 30 feet above this field. You are between 40 and 42 degrees north latitude, and between 58 and 60 degrees west longitude.
"You must be an engineer" says the balloonist.
"I am", replies the man. "How did you know?"
"Well..." says the balloonist. "Everything you told me was technically correct, but I have no idea what to make of your information and the fact is I am still lost."
The man below says, "You must be a Manager"
"I am", replies the balloonist. "How did you know?"
"Well..." says the man. "You don't know where you are, or where you are going. You made a promise which you have no idea how to keep, and you expect me to solve your problem. The fact is you are in the exact same position you were in before we met but now it is somehow
my fault."
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1991 190E 2.3
My father was an engineer and a member of the Society of Automotive Engineers. The average Consumer Reports survey participant has no such engineering resume and will never be able to evaluate a vehicle in the manner that my engineer father could evaluate a vehicle.
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Modern cars are essentially rolling computers. It wouldn’t surprise me if there are almost as much if not more electrical engineering and code time then any mechanical “auto” engineering time since there’s nothing really new when it comes to that facet of automotive design and engineering.
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2024 GMC Canyon Denali..... 2018 Audi SQ5
There are employees everywhere that have had a bad day, dislike a customer, quitting next week, lazy, can’t keep up, etc etc. Escalate at the Dealership by presenting the history, a request for repair or replacement, in writing to the GM and Service Manager. If they can’t repair a known issue then it’s probably a valid Lemon Law event in most states.
Over the years I’ve had similar experiences with GM and Lexus. In both cases it was the busy Service writer making excuses hoping I would go away since the car wasn’t broken. It often works too!
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SUV
So sorry but electrical engineers aren't automotive engineers. To say that people who aren't automotive engineers have the same level of expertise to be able to evaluate the design, contruction and build quality of a vehicle is like saying people who never went to medical or nursing school know more about healthcare than the doctors and nurses. They don't and never will.
Last edited by mb2be; Dec 24, 2022 at 11:09 AM.
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Personally, I find your continued statement that those of us who are not engineers aren't smart enough to comprehend and articulate how a car rides, drives, feels and looks pretty shameful. If I remember correctly, you aren't an engineer anyways your father is/was.
But they are the consumer who actually owns the vehicle, and as someone who is looking to purchase the vehicle I am interested in what they think.
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1991 190E 2.3
Modern cars are essentially rolling computers. It wouldn’t surprise me if there are almost as much if not more electrical engineering and code time then any mechanical “auto” engineering time since there’s nothing really new when it comes to that facet of automotive design and engineering.
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1991 190E 2.3
But they don't need to know that much in order to review a car.
Nobody is saying that people who aren't engineers know more or as much as engineers, we're just saying it doesn't matter in the vast majority of circumstances.
Personally, I find your continued statement that those of us who are not engineers aren't smart enough to comprehend and articulate how a car rides, drives, feels and looks pretty shameful. If I remember correctly, you aren't an engineer anyways your father is/was.
But they are the consumer who actually owns the vehicle, and as someone who is looking to purchase the vehicle I am interested in what they think.
Nobody is saying that people who aren't engineers know more or as much as engineers, we're just saying it doesn't matter in the vast majority of circumstances.
Personally, I find your continued statement that those of us who are not engineers aren't smart enough to comprehend and articulate how a car rides, drives, feels and looks pretty shameful. If I remember correctly, you aren't an engineer anyways your father is/was.
But they are the consumer who actually owns the vehicle, and as someone who is looking to purchase the vehicle I am interested in what they think.
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'21 AMG53 wDPP & ARC, 19 GLC300 - Former-03 C240,2 ML BlueTecs,20 GLE450 E-ABC,15 Cayenne D,17 Macan
I find the disrespect for engineering expertise in this thread unacceptable. It's like people who never went to medical or nursing school claiming they know more about healthcare than the doctors and nurses who actually went to medical or nursing school. It's not and never will be possible. The same is true with engineering. This is why I will always take automotive reviews done by non-engineers with a grain of salt.
(I'm not sure I've seen an identified Engineer comment on this thread. What are you referring to?)
Engineers look at automobiles differently than I do. I don't worry about wiring loom length, cross section of a steering knuckle or seat foam densities.
I want to know how the car feels to my inputs, how well it does its job (by My definition), but there are very few metrics that give insight into those issues without going into slip angles, front vs. rear roll stiffness, and other esoterica.
Those are all important metrics, they can tell me about how the car behaves, but unless there's a White Paper, it's not generally available.
And they certainly don't invite CLICKS, like CR's misqouting itself with their own headlines. "If it
No publication these days will publish an article that's unlikely to get a lot of Clicks, but that's the Media World today.
I'll follow an automobile aficionado's review before an engineer's. I'm not dismissing Engineers - but that's not the input I'm seeking. BTW my best source for auto system reviews is a Dealer's technician who has just returned from training.
Other than that, I've never seen an engineering review of an automobile.
Can you provide a link?
Last edited by mikapen; Dec 26, 2022 at 01:58 PM.
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I find the disrespect for engineering expertise in this thread unacceptable. It's like people who never went to medical or nursing school claiming they know more about healthcare than the doctors and nurses who actually went to medical or nursing school. It's not and never will be possible. The same is true with engineering. This is why I will always take automotive reviews done by non-engineers with a grain of salt.
Nobody is saying that someone who is not an engineer has the same amount of knowledge about how a vehicle is engineered as an engineer. We're just saying that isn't the information we are looking for out of a review. What you seem to be trying to say is that the owner of a vehicle is not qualified to tell us whether their car has been reliable or not because they aren't an engineer, and thats just BS. I will listen to someone's own experience with a vehicle they own over a theoretical opinion from some engineer any day of the week.
To use your Doctor analogy, a patient who is not a Doctor certainly can share their experience with a medical condition they have dealt with themselves, and that experience will be valuable to others researching living with that condition...even if a Doctor knows more about the medicine involved in that condition, they don't know what living with it is like if they haven't done so themselves. Good Doctors will be the first to tell you that too.
Last edited by SW20S; Dec 26, 2022 at 02:45 PM.
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For what it's worth, I have a BS in Aerospace Engineering and a MBA in Project Management.
Neither the Engineer or PM in me was offended, so you can laugh...it's funny and there's some truth in it.
Cheers!
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They need input from the expert, which in this case would be the Body Owner. Ain't no Book Larnin that'll give that insight.
Engineers learn from drivers. That's why Lewis pilots the W13, not his Engineers. Drivers give feedback, Engineers try to make it right. In this case, reviewers give feedback and the engineers hope they've got it right!
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Speaking of CU - I bought my CPO MB C250 coupe after noting the 14 - of 17 - CU reliability categories were a nice GREEN!!
Eight years later - except for the "known" ESL issue - the car has been trouble free.
Holidays best,
ez
Eight years later - except for the "known" ESL issue - the car has been trouble free.
Holidays best,
ez
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1991 190E 2.3
Speaking for myself, a recovering engineer, engineering is only one input I look at, if it's available.
(I'm not sure I've seen an identified Engineer comment on this thread. What are you referring to?)
Engineers look at automobiles differently than I do. I don't worry about wiring loom length, cross section of a steering knuckle or seat foam densities.
I want to know how the car feels to my inputs, how well it does its job (by My definition), but there are very few metrics that give insight into those issues without going into slip angles, front vs. rear roll stiffness, and other esoterica.
Those are all important metrics, they can tell me about how the car behaves, but unless there's a White Paper, it's not generally available.
And they certainly don't invite CLICKS, like CR's misqouting itself with their own headlines. "If itBleeds Clicks it Leads." (New mantra)
No publication these days will publish an article that's unlikely to get a lot of Clicks, but that's the Media World today.
I'll follow an automobile aficionado's review before an engineer's. I'm not dismissing Engineers - but that's not the input I'm seeking. BTW my best source for auto system reviews is a Dealer's technician who has just returned from training.
Other than that, I've never seen an engineering review of an automobile.
Can you provide a link?
(I'm not sure I've seen an identified Engineer comment on this thread. What are you referring to?)
Engineers look at automobiles differently than I do. I don't worry about wiring loom length, cross section of a steering knuckle or seat foam densities.
I want to know how the car feels to my inputs, how well it does its job (by My definition), but there are very few metrics that give insight into those issues without going into slip angles, front vs. rear roll stiffness, and other esoterica.
Those are all important metrics, they can tell me about how the car behaves, but unless there's a White Paper, it's not generally available.
And they certainly don't invite CLICKS, like CR's misqouting itself with their own headlines. "If it
No publication these days will publish an article that's unlikely to get a lot of Clicks, but that's the Media World today.
I'll follow an automobile aficionado's review before an engineer's. I'm not dismissing Engineers - but that's not the input I'm seeking. BTW my best source for auto system reviews is a Dealer's technician who has just returned from training.
Other than that, I've never seen an engineering review of an automobile.
Can you provide a link?
