Aggie57

For sure being able to charge at home is a real bonus, the only time I go to the gas station now is to fill up our legacy vehicles. Maybe once or twice a month max. The Porsche I'll keep, the GLE will likely go as soon as we can charge our Polestar at the only reliable EV charging network - Elon's superchargers. That's happening in 2024.

For the record we did test drive an EQE SUV a few weeks back with a mind to possibly replacing both the GLE and the P2 with one vehicle. But it's just to expensive and not as the GLE, only a little more room than the Polestar. Drives beautifully and definitely has a quality interior but to me it's more a GLC sized vehicle than GLE; you need to get into a EQS SUV to match the space of a GLE and then you're talking $100k+ starting, more like $120k spec'd reasonably. Not happening, Mercedes do need to get real with their EV pricing even as a premium manufacturer.

Aggie57

I do own one and can safely say the quality is great.

Lucky 777

EV's are a great option for a niche market but they're not for everyone...probably most. The climate change and save the planet "benefits" are all BS. Charging them at home or on the road, the electricity is still being produced by coal, oil, and natural gas. Offering EV's for sale to people who want one is great. Forcing people who don't want one for whatever reason is not the way to go.

mikapen

Instead, we keep sucking on the taxpayers' teet.

I like the analogy of the federal government as a Racketeer. 🙂

Paying us to drive what they want. They're paying us to vote for them so we get more electrons!

It all started with "a chicken in every pot." Now it's "electrons for everybody!"😀
Vote for me.

Aggie57

I agree there are use cases where EV's are not the best choice, and some of the arguments about EV's 'saving the planet' can be a little optimistic. But for the record over 20% of total US energy today comes from renewables. Ironically the largest producer, and consumer, of renewable energy in the US is Texas.

In the case of EV's how the energy is generated is decoupled from how it is used, as in unlike a legacy vehicle you are not running a power generator in the vehicle itself (well, apart from regen from braking) so over time you can retain the same vehicle but improve the source and hence cleanliness of the actual generation, without consumers having to upgrade their complete vehicle. Couple that with the way, way fewer moving parts in an EV and you have a situation where the actual useful life of an EV is potentially far longer, and hence cost of ownership far lower, than an ICE or Hybrid vehicle. Meaning, for example, that initial depreciation is not as big a factor in the real world. Of course I say potentially because humans love the latest, most fancy consumer good. Maybe Tesla is leading the way here too with their long product lifecycles and regular OTA updates making older cars still 'current'. And no, batteries do not wear out any more than internal combustion engines do. That's another wonderful piece of false news.

mikapen

Observations:

Here in Colorado, it seems like two things are popping up everywhere: tunnel car washes and Fueling Stations. (Self storage seems to have tapered off.)

And guess what! None of the new fueling stations have EV charging. Talking to their management, there are no plans in the future. "No anticipated Market," they say.

Even the new, modern, state-of-the-art Loves Travel Stop ( https://www.loves.com/locations/873 ) It's their new Poster Child in my town, claiming it's the Station of the Future). It doesn't have EV charging.
They have water slides, putt-putt golf, dog parks, pickleball courts, on 60 acres of modern RV parking. Lots of semi space, an Arby's, but no charging.

I know of five that have just been completed this year, and none have EV charging.

What does that tell you about the perceived future economics of EV'S?

wildta

If anyone is curious, 60% is still created using fossil fuels.
https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3

I agree that the phased/forced adoption timeline currently presented isn't great with current battery technology and charging infrastructure. It certainly works for some people but not the masses. I'm going to continue to wait it out for as long as I can until battery tech improves.

Aggie57

That there's still money to be made pumping gas?

Aggie57

and from the same source "Renewables are the fastest-growing electricity generation source in the United States.":

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/de...0and%20biomass.

Lucky 777

That's easy to say when no new fossil fuel power plants are being built, many are being taken off line actually. There hasn't been a new nuclear power plant in decades, and mostly all sources of hydroelectric generation have maxed out. The overall power generation is stagnant at best with a more likely number being in the red. While demand is going up and states are already experiencing rolling blackouts and mandatory conservation, believing more EV's will not worsen an already grim trend is foolish. Ercot (Texas) came dangerously close in August.

Aggie57

We had the same thing in California last summer, but it wasn't EV's that caused it. It was A/C units. At 2040hrs on warm days A/C units are going crazy, folks are generally not charging their cars. That happens mostly in the early hours of the morning when we're asleep.

Lucky 777

You totally missed the point. It doesn't matter what the load is, the point is our grid is already hanging on by a thread and unable to replace the ICE with EV's.

Aggie57

No I didn't. You said the grid can't meet load, you're inferring that EV's are the cause and as evidence you post an image of demand at 8:40pm but that's not typically when people are charging EV's. EV's get charged middle of the night for folks with a charger at home, or during the day for folks with no home chargers or who are on a trip.

When you own an EV it's really, really easy to work with these parameters and save time and $'s at the same time. My home charger doesn't charge the car between 4pm and 9pm, when load and the rate per kWh are highest.

Ron.s

To put that in context it doesn’t mean that much when the Renewable base is small and the other sources are being discontinued. Why add a Coal fired, Hydro, N Gas or Nuclear when they are mandated to be discontinued..or so unpopular/expensive as with Nuclear.and Hydro.
Renewables aren’ t the total answer and are only viable with huge subsidies or tax breaks. Even then subsidies may not be enough….

ATLANTIC CITY, N.J. — Wind energy developer Orsted is writing off $4 billion, due largely to the cancellation of two large offshore wind projects in New Jersey whose financial challenges mirror those facing the nascent industry.

Aggie57

Turbulent times for the industry for sure, as there often is when interest rates are relatively high and infrastructure is being financed. Look at the ups and downs in the IT industry over the last 1/2 century, lots of hopes dashed along the way but overall progress and changed fundamentals of life and business.

mikapen

Regarding the future of our electric supply, the other shoe is dropping but nobody is noticing.

What?
It's Data Centers, and now AI, placing unsustainable demands on the grid.
Part of Microsoft's future plan is to build nuclear reactors to provide electricity to their AI research. https://www.theverge.com/2023/9/26/2...smr-job-hiring

Swell. Not enough electricity to store my photos in the cloud.
But it's a secret...

Oh, the horror!

Ron.s

Frankly, I don’t see much of a correlation. Tech (for the most part) didn’t rely on Government mandates and subsidies. The ventures were funded by “Capitalists” and Stockholders based on perceived economic value. Any subsidies were from local venues competing for the jobs…normal in other business ventures opening a new location.
There have been several high profile bankruptcies of Green Energy Companies in spite of huge incentive. If it was a viable industry then subsidies and tax incentives wouldn’t be necessary. And we aren’t yet at the point where it will be necessary for huge battery storage facilities to smooth out production fluctuations with demand. Once the legacy energy sources are gone there will not be sources to smooth out demand. Not to mention the higher cost of electricity from new sources.
This isn’t a build it (mandate) and they will come (figure it out later) scenario, IMO.

mikapen

Home charging with all its taxpayer subsidized EV benefits isn't available to many.
35% of Americans don't own homes. 88% don't live in California.
That limits the EV Market.

Maybe governments should give everybody a home and a charger so they can buy an EV. They have two years before the next election. Get on with it and solve this dilemma!😁

mikapen

[QUOTE=Ron.s;8870784]
.....
There have been several high profile bankruptcies of Green Energy Companies in spite of huge incentive.

Friends helping friends as it were. Vote for me.

.....And we aren’t yet at the point where it will be necessary for huge battery storage facilities to smooth out production fluctuations with demand.
.....

This is where it gets interesting.
Some or Most of those people who received subsidized overnight home charging, will become that battery Bank. In many cases, those cars will be required to be plugged into the grid when brownouts are anticipated.
I saw agreements with the utilities that spell this out clearly.

On a parallel note, some utilities in Colorado are supplying smart thermostats that save energy, for free. The hitch is that they just turn your air conditioning off a power shortage.

Ron.s

Just saw an update on the Wind-farm fiasco in NJ. Orsted (that wrote off 4 Billion) was given a 1 Billion Subsidy for the project and asked for more.
A Wind Farm is not so Green as one might think. Each unit requires digging a 30 foot deep hole and adding 2500 tons of rebar infused concrete.
Each Wind unit has considerable non recyclable material. There may be some future options to recycle in the future but it might cost more than the value of the material. Turbine blades are expected to last 20-25 years on average.
Imagine the waste from digging a 30’ or deeper hole in the ocean and pouring 2500 lbs of concrete…then the effect on ocean life, birds, boats, etc. Then the reclamation process when they reach EOL.

Lucky 777

I have a little over 12kw of solar and 48kWh of LifeP04 batteries supplying a 12kw split phase inverter. I heat my home with wood, my water with a high efficiency heat pump water heater, and still can't get 100% off the grid. People grossly underestimate the amount of solar and battery storage required to even run one modest home in the country. The only viable non fossil fuel power source is nuclear and I have very conflicting feelings about that. It fulfills 99% of the green agenda but with devastating consequences if something goes wrong.

Back on topic, Mercedes will continue to build and sell cars with ICE and maybe a few EV's for those who can tolerate their limitations.

TexAg91

In my opinion, the fact that EVs are powered by coal, nuclear, hydro, wind, solar, gas turbines…etc….is their strength. The power source they use is diversified and is domestically produced. If OPEC limits production to jack up the price of petroleum in protest of what’s going on in Gaza, it will have little to no impact on the price of electricity. The environment argument is not for me, but the national security argument is.

EVs are not for everyone and I agree wholeheartedly that they should not be mandated, but they do have there advantages. If you can charge at home, they do make a superior commuter car. I took a weekend trip in my model Y to catch the Texas A&M vs Tennessee game in Knoxville just to try out the supercharger network and to see what it was like for myself. It was about 460 miles each way. Only had to stop twice on each leg to recharge and drove at 70-75 mph. Each stop was less than 30 minutes and was a bathroom break, drink and a stretch opportunity. If I was driving the GLE I would have stopped twice for about 15 min each, so the Tesla only added about 30 min. Yes it wasn’t as convenient as the GLE on a road trip, but it wasn’t a total pain in the **** either. 500 mile day trips are doable.

Funny thing is I recharged at Buckees in Pigeon Forge, TN—that Buckees is the largest gas station in the States…something like 120 gas pumps and 30 super chargers stations. That was an experience in and of itself!

TexAg91

Yes, but we also subsidize gas. Let’s face it if there wasn’t oil in the Middle East (that supply affects the global market ) we would care less about it. If OPEC can jack with the supply, we can jack with demand by driving an EV.

TexAg91

Well, Buckees in Piegon Forge had a crap load of Tesla Super charges…they were 80% utilized. I don’t know what Love’s market strategy is, but they may be missing out. Even if they don’t make a ton of money off the electricity, they would drive people into their-convenience store. Seems like a missed opportunity to me. Cheers!

No joke — this photo was taken inside that Buckee’s store. Couldn’t believe it.

TexAg91

[QUOTE=mikapen;8870786]Yep, that’s the vehicle to Grid concept. Charge your EV at night when there’s excess capacity and electricity is cheap. Sell sell some back to the utility during peak demand when it’s expensive and offset the cost of charging it at night.

Is anyone actually doing that yet? Are they mandating it or are they incentivizing it? Don’t like the concept of a mandate, but I do like the concept of incentivizing consumers to sell some of that excess capacity in their battery back to the utility during peak demand.