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I haven't been able to find much info about this, and I wanted to check if I am the only one in this boat or it's a common issue.
I am 5'7 and I find that my ideal seating position leaves very little room between my knee and the dashboard (especially due to the ignition button location), about 1 fingers width give or take. This position is a little bit reclined back to avoid lower back pain on longer drives, while still being able to properly reach the steering wheel (steering wheel fully extended). Also I am not particularly tall either – I can imagine this getting quite worse for taller folks. Pretty standard driving position, nothing extreme.
However I don't want to imagine what would happen with such small knee to dashboard clearance in case of a frontal collision. Probably my knee would be obliterated. Currently I am positioning the seat a little bit further away to mitigate this concern (basically stopping right before at the point where the steering wheel feels too far away for good control), but even doing so it doesn't leave much of a gap – 2-3 finger's width length (~1.5 inches).
Anyone in a similar situation? Either my legs are very long compared to my arms, or it's just the shape of the dashboard with the ignition button protruding out makes it impossible in this car to leave bigger distance between knee and dashboard.
I don't think I'd be worried about safety with a seating position that puts your knees close to the dash.
Before there were airbags, the safety folks were concerned about too much distance between your knees and the knee bolsters. The greater the distance, the more the speed differential as your knees strike the dash.
You'll be in better control of your car if you're comfortable.
It's kinda hard to tell from your picture, but at what angle are your legs? Generally speaking, a starting, unengaged angle for the legs should be no less than 90 degrees, but can go up to 120 degrees for pedals with short travel. Considering that in a crash, your leg is likely fully extended and hard on the brakes, rather than distance to the dash, more important is can you push the brake pedal all the way down with enough leverage for hard braking in an emergency situation?
Last edited by superswiss; 03-11-2024 at 04:11 PM.
I haven't been able to find much info about this, and I wanted to check if I am the only one in this boat or it's a common issue.
I am 5'7 and I find that my ideal seating position leaves very little room between my knee and the dashboard (especially due to the ignition button location), about 1 fingers width give or take. This position is a little bit reclined back to avoid lower back pain on longer drives, while still being able to properly reach the steering wheel (steering wheel fully extended). Also I am not particularly tall either – I can imagine this getting quite worse for taller folks. Pretty standard driving position, nothing extreme.
However I don't want to imagine what would happen with such small knee to dashboard clearance in case of a frontal collision. Probably my knee would be obliterated. Currently I am positioning the seat a little bit further away to mitigate this concern (basically stopping right before at the point where the steering wheel feels too far away for good control), but even doing so it doesn't leave much of a gap – 2-3 finger's width length (~1.5 inches).
Anyone in a similar situation? Either my legs are very long compared to my arms, or it's just the shape of the dashboard with the ignition button protruding out makes it impossible in this car to leave bigger distance between knee and dashboard.
Cheers
Is there a driver’s knee airbag in this car? This addresses some of the concern.
Modern pedal-steering column-seat relationships leave alot to be desired. The main focus is getting the airbag targeted in the desired place from a safety point of view, with driver comfort and ergonomics as a lower priority.
My 166 seat bottom cushion didn’t have sufficient rake adjustment for my liking. My current Cayenne doesn’t have enough downward steering column adjustment for my liking. 1990s Opel Omega had more than enough adjustment in all directions!
There is a driver's Knee airbag in the newer 167 model. You have the previous version. I wouldn't be surprised if it had the knee airbags too. That and a seatbelt should keep you reasonably safe.
I have exactly the same issue at 185cm tall. I can choose between knee against the start button or neck/shoulder pain, basically.
It would be fine if the steering wheel would come out a bit further, but no...
I'm always amazed that it's damn near the same interior as my old E-class Coupé, yet it's so much less comfortable, it's ridiculous.
Maybe dropping the seat and sitting down low like a sports car would work, but that's a terrible seating position for a huge SUV.
@superswiss The angle is around 110-115 degrees or so, in both positions I am able to fully depress break/accelerator. But the further back I put the sit to add space between knee and dashboard, the harder to reach the wheel.
Regarding the knee airbag – I really wonder if rather than protecting it would make things worse at this distance. I am not sure the airbag would even have enough space to deploy with 1.5inch or so of distance. I've tried searching for similar questions on the internet, but I haven't been able to find anything too interesting.
@elbekko Yeah, that's exactly it. It seems that the relative positioning of the pedals, dashboard, and steering wheel leads to this issue. I wish the steering wheel would come out a couple of inches out. That would solve it for me – I am able to sit comfortably further away, but then I can't reach the wheel. I actually tried the sedan-like position being really low, and as you mention it just didn't work well on an SUV – really bad visibility around, at least for my height.
@superswiss The angle is around 110-115 degrees or so, in both positions I am able to fully depress break/accelerator. But the further back I put the sit to add space between knee and dashboard, the harder to reach the wheel.
Regarding the knee airbag – I really wonder if rather than protecting it would make things worse at this distance. I am not sure the airbag would even have enough space to deploy with 1.5inch or so of distance. I've tried searching for similar questions on the internet, but I haven't been able to find anything too interesting.
@elbekko Yeah, that's exactly it. It seems that the relative positioning of the pedals, dashboard, and steering wheel leads to this issue. I wish the steering wheel would come out a couple of inches out. That would solve it for me – I am able to sit comfortably further away, but then I can't reach the wheel. I actually tried the sedan-like position being really low, and as you mention it just didn't work well on an SUV – really bad visibility around, at least for my height.
Indeed. I'm glad I'm not the only one with this problem... And setting the lumbar support makes it even worse. An adjustable arm rest on the driver's seat, like I have on my 25 year old Range Rover, would already help a lot, but also no.
Land Rover figured out command driving position in the '70s, this shouldn't be an issue in 2024 :/
Originally Posted by BlueYonder
The complaints about visibility, seat position, steering wheel position. Do people not test drive or at least sit in a car at the dealer anymore?
I test drove a GLE for a day. Even took it about a 1.5h away. Obviously that wasn't long enough to notice these issues. It always takes a while to get seating position dialed in just right, and with the interior being damn near the same as in my E Coupé I figured I'd be able to get it as comfortable... apparently not.
Visibility is ok as long as the seat is high up, but then seat position and steering wheel position is barely acceptable.
The complaints about visibility, seat position, steering wheel position. Do people not test drive or at least sit in a car at the dealer anymore?
While I don’t feel you’re invalid, I do believe it’s something that is possibly noticed after awhile and not immediately. I had a similar situation in my wife’s XC90. After who knows how long, I realized my knee was closer than I’d like to the center stack. It’s a sharp point where the center stack sticks out from the console. Definitely would’ve destroyed my knee if I ever got in an accident, really weird design on Volvo’s behalf.
idk why car mfgrs have designs like this when they’re “known” for safety.
@XVG what caused you to worry about the knee-to-dash distance?
I don't think it's a safety issue. Why would it be?
There's less distance for your knee to accelerate, relative to the knee bolster, so the impact would be lower than one from a longer distance.
If you're wearing your seatbelt, the danger would be a total passenger capsule collapse. Maybe then your concerns would be valid, but that'd be a big hit. I'd worry less about my appendages than my life, in that case.
You'd be covered with airbags then, for sure!
I'd just adjust my seat for best control, visibility and comfort. Comfort is important to improve the others.
I understand your frustration.
I always spend the first five minutes of a test drive adjusting my seat and mirrors, checking for awkward positions, reaches and control operation.
Despite that, I still end up with cars that won't work, like the '17 Macan we bought - it's 18 way seat was too narrow at the front for me and my 110 lb wife - it bit our legs on longer trips. It's gone.
Land Rover figured out command driving position in the '70s, this shouldn't be an issue in 2024 :/
I think this is it. When trying to achieve a command-like driving position the ignition button area of the dashboard will get in the way. The more the seat moves up, the closer your knees get to the dashboard to maintain the same distance to the pedals. I believe this car is just not designed for this driving position, it won't work due to the light and ignition areas protruding out on both sides.
I've been trying with a sedan-like driving position the last coupe of days, basically lowering the seat around 1.5 inches (getting back pretty much the same extra distance from the knee to dashboard), and this seems to also work pretty well. It's comfortable (probably even more than higher up as you're more reclined), and still has good enough visibility – although not as good as what you would have with command driving position.
what caused you to worry about the knee-to-dash distance?
Initially I didn't think at all about this. My legs weren't touching the dash and the position was very good for my liking, so happy days. Until a few days back I randomly thought that if the cabin was to collapse in the case of an accident, even just a couple of inches, it would crush by leg.
Then came the thought of the knee airbags, and this made it even worse. In this case the knee airbag wouldn't have enough space to deploy between the dash and the knee, potentially leading to an injury from the airbag itself – even without cabin collapse, just from the airbag. Looking at the V167 diagram from https://www.boronextrication.com/202...ody-structure/ , it's clear the airbag would need at least a couple of inches or so of distance to safely deploy (not sure how accurate this rendering is...). I think it's pretty hard to judge what would be the effect of the knee airbag with very little knee clearance, will the airbag have enough structural strength to injure your leg? or because of the elongated shape it would just inflate downwards and not break in between the dash and the knee? Honestly hard to say without real world testing or opinion from an airbag engineer!
So the "knee" airbag is more of a lower leg airbag, and it doesn't really matter if your knee is close to the dash or not:
I think this is it. When trying to achieve a command-like driving position the ignition button area of the dashboard will get in the way. The more the seat moves up, the closer your knees get to the dashboard to maintain the same distance to the pedals. I believe this car is just not designed for this driving position, it won't work due to the light and ignition areas protruding out on both sides.
I've been trying with a sedan-like driving position the last coupe of days, basically lowering the seat around 1.5 inches (getting back pretty much the same extra distance from the knee to dashboard), and this seems to also work pretty well. It's comfortable (probably even more than higher up as you're more reclined), and still has good enough visibility – although not as good as what you would have with command driving position.
I might have to try it again. Sadly my GLE is a Covid-special, so no memory seats, hence I'm a bit wary of changing a setting that mostly works and took me a good while to get dialed in...
03-11-2024, 12:56 PM
