wildta

Excerpts from WSJ.

"Next month, about 5,000 workers at a Mercedes-Benz plant near Tuscaloosa, Ala., are expected to vote on whether to let in the UAW. "

VW just voted and will be joining the UAW:

"Workers at Volkswagen’s Tennessee factory voted to join the United Auto Workers, a landmark win for the 89-year-old union as it seeks to expand where it has struggled before, with foreign-owned factories in the South.

The UAW won in a landslide with 73% of workers who cast ballots in favor of union representation. About 84% of the plant’s 4,300 eligible workers participated."

hubduc

I will not buy a UAW vehicle!

chassis

Vance’s quality is bad. If the UAW is voted in, will quality be better, or worse?

OldManAndHisCar

Worse....FAR worse

streborx

The article's telling reveal was Fain's UAW objectives -- "end corruption and expand membership". Nothing said about worker welfare and improving quality of their work. Unions are 100% anti-management, and exist entirely for the union leadership's thirst for money. Fain makes $350K/year extorting auto makers and compromising quality.

OldManAndHisCar

They should shutter the factory and move to Mexico.

Used to be every few years (in Illinois) we would get RN's who would want to unionize the nursing staff. I had the pleasure of firing two of the "leaders" on two separate occasions about two years apart (oddly). The final blow to the Socialist America experiment (and Obama care). We simply closed the hospital (rather large facility in a bad part of town with an L1 ED. Unions used to have their place, that place is long gone.

AlmonteVG

I’m glad for the workers that they will be represented by the union. I am a union electrician and 100% pro union. I don’t understand the resentment towards unions I really don't. Maybe not all unions are the same but I believe they are all seen with the same prejudice.

In my union IBEW local 164 obviously there are some bad workers but I’d say a small percentage and they barely stick around with a contractor for very long. We are properly trained by the union, ensured safe working conditions, receive really good benefits and a good working wage. We have a pay scale with set raises so there’s no bickering everyone makes the same amount, when your running work you get a few dollars more.

I know guys that own non union companies doing the exact thing that we do. The difference is there’s no osha involved, so safety’s mostly out the window. There’s really no formal schooling/ training. Only his top guys get basic benefits. His workers have no voice if there’s an issue or safety concern he tells them to kick rocks or find another job. You can work 100 hrs a week if you want and there’s no overtime paid. And the real kicker is that he charges almost the same amount as my union contractor per hour for commercial work. The difference is in the union half of the pie goes to the actual worker where in a non union setting his guys get maybe a 1/3 or a 1/4.

Done with that rant, and back to cars. I don’t understand how union or non union workers are blamed for crappy cars. To me this has always been Detroits white collar way of “pointing the finger”. During the bailout they looked into the way these factories were run and for every union worker there was an equivalent amount of white collar positions that were making even more money than the workers.

The white collar workers design the vehicles. They design the parts that are going into said vehicles. They design the way the parts are assembled into said vehicles. They supervise the parts being assembled to create said vehicles. They supervise the inspections of said vehicles when they come off the line. They sign off on the end product. So my question is why is it the workers fault if they get crappy parts (big 3) put together a crappy vehicle that way they were trained to put it together, and all the supervisors are happy with the end product?

AlmonteVG

The same argument can be made that non union shops are 100% anti blue collar workers.

streborx

I spent most of my career working in non-union shops where production workers were treated well, and particpated in company profit sharing and ESOPs. Believe me, they were much happier getting quarterly bonus checks in their pay envelopes, than struggling to survive on 10% of their normal pay walking picket lines while the union bosses jockeyed for power.

The VW workers will eventually conclude, "What were we thinking?", and try to vote the union out.

AlmonteVG

I’m sure the cartels/government's down in Mexico are allot easier to negotiate with than the UAW.

That’s cute boasting of firing the RN’s but also very ilegal and a clear violation of NLRA laws.

Unions definitely have a place in this country and always will. Not all unions have the same loyalty/responsibilities to their workers/employers but that’s just life you have good ppl and not good ppl.

AlmonteVG

How often is there a “information line” that they would have to survive on 10% of there pay? Some non union shops might be well run and employees will have no desire to seek out a union. But usually if a union is sought out there are employee concerns. I admit I have no knowledge of the UAW except for what is put out there. I am pro union when they are well run, seek to make the workers life better, are honestly working on employer employee relations and everyone is happy or both sides are slightly upset which is more realistic in any negotiation.

chassis

UAW win in Chattanooga means they won’t leave Vance alone until the vote passes.

Next targets will be Honda and Toyota plants in the next few years, then Tesla.

mikapen

My Vance 53's build quality is exceptionally good. Same with my 164 and 166.

I was a UAW worker in the '60s. I was never so embarrassed to take home a paycheck. I don't think anything's changed as far as the Union culture.

I'm very skeptical about Union built cars.

Crito

In a free-market society that's of, by and for the people (instead of corporations) there'd be no need for unions. But since I'm told I'm not allowed to buy a Chinese EV and western auto executives typically spend three work days/lunches every week sipping martinis at a country club... bidness iz bidness baby! Good for them!

Crito

Socialists would allow $10,000 Chinese EVs into the country to save the planet from global warming. Democraps would rather see the polar ice caps melt and all the penguins drown just like Repugnicans. They're flip sides of the same corporate state experiment (aka fascism, see Mussolini's book on the subject for more info).

Frenetic

It was inevitable this happened and it’s entirely because of the automakers themselves.

A lot of automakers moved to the south because of cheap labor and a more corporate-friendly “right-to-work’ environment. They fled established manufacturing hubs, moving south because they didn’t want to change. They wanted to use the same tactics without the burden of unionization without realizing those tactics is what caused unionization to begin with. Were they naive enough to think that by simply changing zip codes and nothing else would keep the issue at bay?

Will this affect quality is my big question. Maybe, simply by virtue of more pay, or am I being naive?

chassis

Unionization of Chattanooga, and in the future Vance, won't improve quality. Workers won't get more pay in their checking accounts. They will see a higher numerical value on the top line of their paycheck. Bottom line will be little changed. Why? Three letters: U, A, W. Or said more generally, care and feeding of the labor union machine.

The comments made in the quoted post do not apply to Honda and Toyota. Arguably also not to VW. Those three companies located where they did to avoid the upper midwest labor culture sewer, and yet will eventually be UAW-ized one day. Those three companies had and have different labor-management relationships. Sadly, read on.

Labor unions seek what is best for their own organization, not what is best for the third parties (the workers) they represent. It's yet another example of the agency problem.

Frenetic

People unionize for a reason. Something, either pay, benefits, working conditions, etc., drove them to vote. They could have chosen not to unionize but they didn’t. The automakers are free to move their factories again if they so choose and maybe they will. Point being is that the automakers should look in the mirror and ask themselves why are they unionizing? Changing zip codes isn’t going to solve the unionization issue. What makes Toyota’s factory in the south different? I have no idea but there must be something where one factory wants to unionize and another doesn’t.

I’m impartial to unions. I think they definitely have a place in our society especially if you rewind the clock and examine the reasons why they came to be in the first place. If you think about, contrary to popular opinion, they are doing the most capitalistic free-market thing imaginable by bartering for more pay or whatever. Conversely, the automakers can say screw you and shutdown plants and move again.

But yeah, I don’t believe it will help quality either.

FireRx Captain

you guys know this was for Volkwagen, right. Mercedes folks weren't even mentioned in the news.

chassis

The UAW is targeting to organize Vance. Old news.

chassis

Post-organizing, how much "more pay" do you think the rank and file see in their checking account, which can be spent on gasoline and groceries?

BlueYonder

Most companies get the unions that they deserve.

Unions have their place in private industry, especially in jobs that require certification. They have absolutely no place in government jobs. I was a union member during my career as an airline pilot. The union was heavily involved in training, certification, and disciplinary issues with pilots. I would much rather have union pilots deciding pilot qualifications instead of a pencil pushing Harvard MBA.

The Mercedes plants in Germany are all unionized and arguably produce a better product. The problems at the Vance plant seem to be more related to software and quality control, both are more the fault of those MBAs running the plant rather than the worker on the assembly line.

FireRx Captain

including Union des now. Before I retired my union due were $200 a month. and that was 14 years ago

OldManAndHisCar

[QUOTE=AlmonteVG;8958293]I’m glad for the workers that they will be represented by the union. I am a union electrician and 100% pro union. /QUOTE]

Because 99% of your comments are apathetic lies? People should be paid based on the value of labor and quality of work. Unions prefer neither. Your delusion that there is no OSHA, EPA or other federal workers rights in a non-Union shop? Outright lies. The fact, is Union shops had HIGHER reported on-the-job injuries than non-union (then again, the Union guys are also in general looking for a paid vacation that the non-union would not get).

I could go on and on and on with FACTS. The fact is, I am very proud that my family (primarily my father) has been a Union Buster for decades. Some years ago in my early childhood he was even printed on a UAW magazine as "Enemy #1"....that was a highlight of his career and increased his value as a consultant to many international companies who had a foot print in the US. Unions would rather NOT WORK and NOT have a job than not be an apathetic lemming who will run to the cliff for their leaders....and jump (in general as they have no ability to lead themselves or their own lives).

That said, trust me, the upper echelon of your Union do not care about you one bit. They make FAR more than you and only break a sweat playing golf.

OldManAndHisCar

In general, that is a negative integer.